Can I get in trouble for this?

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I think some of us are being a bit harsh on this. Yes **** hits the fan and it could have in this instance but it wouldn't have started and ended with the OP.

Not to say you were right but I am on the side that says the client and his tech both FU long before you showed up so if you touched it and his server went up in flames and his dumb ass told you to look at it. I don't think there is a law court in crazy ass California that would find you at fault. 5-10% contributory negligence possibly but even that I doubt.

If there is a car wreck and a lady is dying and the car is in flames and I pull her out and her arm comes off because I am not a doctor, I have no liability i am just a bystander trying to save the lady. I don't even need her permission to be guilt free.

That seems to me what you re describing. But now all this is said and done, go buy yourself a nice raid motherboard refurb for $100 and build yourself a SATA raid, tear it up and reconfigure it Raid zero, raid 1, raid 5, raid 6 and raid 10. Most inexpensive raids seem to over more of these options. You can do all of these with 4 - $35, 500 Gbyte drives. It is not rocket science. It works the same on workstations as it does on server.

Google the raid wiki will give you enough knowledge to play with your own test system. next time you can say I have seen this before but I am still no expert. That is hour knowledge is gained but next time do a full backup before tinkering. :)
 
If there is a car wreck and a lady is dying and the car is in flames and I pull her out and her arm comes off because I am not a doctor, I have no liability i am just a bystander trying to save the lady. I don't even need her permission to be guilt free.

No good deal goes unpunished. I have seen cases that are somewhat in the same area as this where the victim (lady in burning car) has turned around and sued (you) for having her arm ripped of and you loose. It does happen. Its not right, but it does happen.
 
First off this sounds more urban myth than reality. I dated a litigation attorney for quite some time and my good friend is an attorney as well so I am quite used to talking about litigation cases around the pizza place or billiards hall.

This is an area of general interest to me both in consulting, business and IT we have had plenty of opportunity to discus many cases. Even if the opt totally wiped out the clients data there is less than a 2% chance that they could win let alone collect a massive judgement from the op. now the op might have trouble collecting his fees but that is the extent of his liability.

Has some poor sob some where in the last 200 years done something nice and got his toe in the ringer, possibly, is it likely, absolutely not.

So it is fun to talk about these deals they are nothing more than water cooler talk.

I have had the opportunity to sue a few people and the attorneys admitted I had a reasonable case. But the other party was a well off working stiff but not a deep pockets millionaire so my best friend/attorney said why get a judgement which takes could cost us $50-$100,000's in court costs, depositions, on and on for many years (if its a big case) by the time we could win, if we cannot ever hoped to collect a judgement?

If there is no deep pockets to pay down the line, attorneys are not interested. Getting a judgement against some guy and garnishing his wages for 20-30 years is not an acceptable solution in little cases like this.
 
My take

The times people have asked me to do something out of my scope, I refuse not matter who is asking. If I consider that its doable, I tell them that I can research and get back to them.
The OP's client seems to want a free router, and if the server didn't have a backup, it sounds like no one has looked at the setup in a while.

Thanks to the guy that posted advice about building a system for practice... is there any cheap motherboard/system that could someone recommend for self-study?
 
Thanks to the guy that posted advice about building a system for practice... is there any cheap motherboard/system that could someone recommend for self-study?

Buy a couple older servers off of craigslist, that's what I did, just make sure they have the OS intact... I got a couple of Windoze 2003 servers, both Dell, for a couple of hundred each. I then made backup images so if I screwed them up I don't lose the OS (no install media included)...
 
Don't try to put something together. Just buy an actual server off Ebay. You can get Dell Poweredge servers all day long for under a hundred bucks. There's also other things you can get familiar with at the same time like dealing with hot swap components, multiple power supplies, and registered ram.
 
Thanks for digging that up. Crazy huh?



My question is this do any of you not help people in burning cars because of this one case?

Do you go outside when it rains? How many times you been hit by lightning?

BTW- I bet that girl is a trust fund baby or they couldn't collect.

Funny it turned out to be in California.

Fact tidbit I discovered four years ago. California is the one state in the USA you do not have to have a law degree nor any law schooling at all to take and pass the Law Bar.

I owe Jeffreynya a "you are right" on that one.:)
 
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I don't think that story was posted to scare anyone into not helping but rather to show that it can in fact happen that a good samaritan ends up being persecuted.

Not sure where you got that story on California but that's incorrect. California has whats considered the hardest Bar exam in the US and there is a law school requirement.

You can Google California Bar Requirements to find this information I listed below.

PRE-LEGAL EDUCATION

A minimum of two years of approved college work or its equivalent by passage of designated examinations, College Level Examination Program (CLEP), administered by the College Board.

REGISTRATION

Students must register with the Committee of Bar Examiners (CBE). In addition, registration is mandatory for attorneys from other jurisdictions who wish to apply to practice in California. The registration application should be filed online before a moral character application or an examination application is filed.

LEGAL EDUCATION

* J. D. degree from a law school accredited by the State Bar of California or approved by the ABA;
* Four years of study at a fixed-facility law school registered with the Committee;
* Four years of study, with a minimum of 864 hours of preparation and study per year, at an unaccredited distance-learning or correspondence law school registered with the Committee;
* Four years of study in the law office/judge’s chambers study program; or
* A combination of these methods.
 
If there is a car wreck and a lady is dying and the car is in flames and I pull her out and her arm comes off because I am not a doctor, I have no liability i am just a bystander trying to save the lady. I don't even need her permission to be guilt free.

I hope this doesn't sound too harsh, but this is a rather absurd analogy to the OPs situation.

A great deal of latitude is given to people who cause damage while attempting to save a life. They are not (and should not be) given the same degree of latitude when they cause damage when they are just trying to do something nice.

In this case I don't believe the OP would be in trouble it the client chose to take legal action; not because there was no negligence, nor because his intention to do something nice gives him any sort of legal defense, but because if investigated it would almost certainly turn out that he didn't actually do any damage.
 
Not sure where you got that story on California but that's incorrect. California has whats considered the hardest Bar exam in the US and there is a law school requirement.

California State Bar Law Office Study Program

The California State Bar Law Office Study Program allows California residents to become California attorneys without graduating from college or law school, assuming they meet basic pre-legal educational requirements.[32] (If the candidate has no college degree, he or she may take and pass the College Level Examination Program (CLEP).) The Bar candidate must study under a judge or lawyer for four years and must also pass the Baby Bar within three administrations after first becoming eligible to take the examination. They are then eligible to take the California Bar Examination.
 
I hope this doesn't sound too harsh, but this is a rather absurd analogy to the OPs situation.

Often when trying to make a point an extreme example may be used to help hi light the points.

A great deal of latitude is given to people who cause damage while attempting to save a life. They are not (and should not be) given the same degree of latitude when they cause damage when they are just trying to do something nice.

Seems more true in California than other places but yes I agree. The op is not safe because he is a nice guy but because he was asked to do it and he notified the client. The notification to a large measure transfers the obligation back to the client.

In this case I don't believe the OP would be in trouble it the client chose to take legal action; not because there was no negligence, nor because his intention to do something nice gives him any sort of legal defense, but because if investigated it would almost certainly turn out that he didn't actually do any damage.

Even if there had been both negligence (which I don't think there is as he was "ASKED" to look at it after "NOTIFYING" the client of his unfamiliarity with Servers/Raids) and damage, I don't think the client has much of a case.

An attorneys first question to the plaintiff would most likely be "Dear Mr. Plaintiff you would have the court believe that your data was worth XX,XXX yet you let it have known errors without seeking to remedy the situation? how many days have these errors occurred? Your data was worth xx,xxx yet you had opportunity to have a backup plan yet have none? Can you explain that to us? Your data is so valuable yet you failed to hire an appropriately trained, experienced and certified technician? What are the certifications, experience and skills of your technician who setup your server and raid?

In order to have a case against someone you have to have had some level of due diligence in protecting your own network, data and security It should be setup correctly, it should have a backup schema, and it should be working. If you work on a failing raid and it fails well that happens to the best of us. The key thing to me is that the op notified the client and the client decided to proceed.

The op has many levels of defense and the client has none that I can see.

So in summary, I think the OP isn't in much trouble, I doubt worse case the client has any legs to stand on even if he wanted to proceed.

To the ops question can I get in trouble? Maybe you are in a bit of trouble with the client, but no legal or liability troubles that I can see.
 
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Tony you posted that in California you don't have to have any Law schooling and that is incorrect. If you don't have a law degree then you still have to meet the Pre-law requirements which is two years of Pre-law and then you have to work under a judge or attorney in their study program for 4 more years. Did you read my post or your own post?

As far as building a server, the poster asked for a cheap motherboard recommendation. Instead of trying to piece together some hodge podge server he can buy a complete server on Ebay which will give him a lot more value and some hands on with real server equipment. You can buy them all day long for under a hundred bucks and not only learn about RAID and SCSI but at the same time learn about Registered Ram, hot swap server components, multiple power supplies, server management tools, and whatever else may pop up.

LEGAL EDUCATION

* J. D. degree from a law school accredited by the State Bar of California or approved by the ABA;
* Four years of study at a fixed-facility law school registered with the Committee;
* Four years of study, with a minimum of 864 hours of preparation and study per year, at an unaccredited distance-learning or correspondence law school registered with the Committee;
* Four years of study in the law office/judge’s chambers study program; or
* A combination of these methods.
 
Tony you posted that in California you don't have to have any Law schooling and that is incorrect. If you don't have a law degree then you still have to meet the Pre-law requirements which is two years of Pre-law and then you have to work under a judge or attorney in their study program for 4 more years. Did you read my post or your own post?

As far as building a server, the poster asked for a cheap motherboard recommendation. Instead of trying to piece together some hodge podge server he can buy a complete server on Ebay which will give him a lot more value and some hands on with real server equipment. You can buy them all day long for under a hundred bucks and not only learn about RAID and SCSI but at the same time learn about Registered Ram, hot swap server components, multiple power supplies, server management tools, and whatever else may pop up.

LEGAL EDUCATION

* J. D. degree from a law school accredited by the State Bar of California or approved by the ABA;
* Four years of study at a fixed-facility law school registered with the Committee;
* Four years of study, with a minimum of 864 hours of preparation and study per year, at an unaccredited distance-learning or correspondence law school registered with the Committee;
* Four years of study in the law office/judge’s chambers study program; or
* A combination of these methods.

The OJT with a lawyer and CLEP is all that is required. The CLEP substitutes for the law schooling and the OJT substitutes for the law degree. But you sure are picking buckshot out of BS.

How far are you willing to go to be right? This is way off the topic, way off the point and a BTW side note. Do you just feel like finding anything to argue with?

How did I manage to pull your tail to get you in such a state?
 
Often when trying to make a point an extreme example may be used to help hi light the points.

In those cases, the example still logically follows from the situation.

In your example it turns the situation on its head. In the OPs situation, the risk of doing something and making a mistake was greater than the risk of doing nothing (loss of the only known copy of the business' data vs. modest delay of server repair). In your example, the risk of doing something was far less than the risk of doing nothing (risk of serious injury and small chance of death vs. virtual certainty of death).


Even if there had been both negligence (which I don't think there is as he was "ASKED" to look at it after "NOTIFYING" the client of his unfamiliarity with Servers/Raids) and damage, I don't think the client has much of a case.

For a professional in a field in which most people have little understanding, it can (and sometimes is) be considered negligence to perform a service for which you are not qualified EVEN WITH consent, if the professional has good reason to believe that the client is not competent to understand the risk involved. In such a case, the professional could put the responsibility back on the client ONLY by explaining what the risks are. I see nothing in the OPs post which suggests that he took this step.

Put simply - if you know what the risks are, explain them to the client before you accept their permission to do something not in your usual scope of service; if you aren't familiar enough to know and explain the risks, don't touch it. Your act of kindness might prove disastrous for both the person you're trying to help and yourself.
 
I see what is happening.

Some server/raid/network guys are getting pretty Territorial about servers and raids. This newbie tech guy went out and touched someones server. He has come to us for help and our opinions and now its a good chance for you to thrash and trash him as well as fight to the bitter end and discredit any thing and anyone who has an opposing voice.

I think much of this is just petty. If the op wishes to PM me I am glad to respond without the side show created by these few petty members.
 
I see what is happening.

Some server/raid/network guys are getting pretty Territorial about servers and raids. This newbie tech guy went out and touched someones server. He has come to us for help and our opinions and now its a good chance for you to thrash and trash him as well as fight to the bitter end and discredit any thing and anyone who has an opposing voice.

I think much of this is just petty. If the op wishes to PM me I am glad to respond without the side show created by these few petty members.

If that was provoked by me, you couldn't be further off base. I rarely touch servers, am only really qualified for home networking situations, and have never once done anything with a hardware RAID (and only rarely with software RAIDs).
 
hehe ....... Boy did you jump off into left field??????? Sounds like someone pulled your tail. What is petty about the suggestions and opinions given by everyone here????? From what Ive read its all been pretty sound.

Should he have put in the router without discussing it with the client? no.

Should he have touched a clients machine, which he had no knowledge about, and risked losing the clients data? no.

Learn some lessons and move on. Its not the end of the world.

Far as I can tell everyone is having a nice discussion and now you've taken it somewhere it didn't need to go.
 
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