BSOD Straight after Windows XP loader screen.

[smlie4]

Okay here is the scenario.

Went out to job and diagnose Windows XP not getting past the black Windows XP loader screen the loader bar. Tried to boot in safe mode with no success. I tested the hard drive with Seagate diagnostics and found drive dying.

I pulled drive out of computer and took it home and cloned onto new drive with HD Clone which notified me some errors coping all data. I then ran CHKDSK on new drive in my workshop computer after 3 hours the computer booted up on my computer I ran windows important updates and took drive back to customers house.

After installing drive in customers computer I got BSOD ***STOP: 0x0000007e (0xc0000005,0xcf75e7750,0xf78a242c,0xf78a2128) straight after Windows XP Loader screen (the one before the logon screen).

I tried safe boot mode and it loaded ok, so I used system restore to go back before my updates and restarted still BSOD.

I took customers computer back home and tried drive in my computer and it started with no problems.

I used AUTORUNS and stage by stage unchecked items and restarted each time until I have unchecked everything and still BSOD!

I went into the device manager and uninstalled VIDEO/CHIP/MOUSE/KEYBOARD/HDD/SOUND drivers and still getting BSOD after Windows loader screen.

Decided to call it quits and I was going to NUKE and PAVE, as it is OEM version I didn't think I could do a repair install but when I put in my OEM XP home installation disk and went to install there was the repair installation "R" available so I did a repair installation. This still failed to fix the BSOD.

I am guessing when I used system restore it removed all the windows updates I updated so that rules out that and only leaves driver problem and the system loads fine on my computer and not the customers computer which the drive was cloned from makes me it would be a driver associated with my MOBO/VIDEO/SOUND.

Customers needs computer back so I am just going to NUKE and PAVE, but I open for comments on other things I could have done for future reference.

 

[smlie4]

I just had a thought.. The hard drive was originally hanging at the same place it is now BSOD'ing. Now the hard drive has been replaced I am guessing this area is damaged still (because I cloned the drive). As it works on my computer but not customer, this means it is a driver associated with customers computer?

*Also I swapped RAM across from working computer al ot earlier in the process and did not make difference.

 

[iptech]

The problem is caused by filesystem damage, this may be caused by a failing hard drive, but can also be caused by improper shutdown, virus activity or fragmentation.

Firstly you need to decide of was a hardware fault on the old drive causing the problem, if that tests OK then you need to diagnose the bootup issues on a known good drive. If you randomly stab at software fixes you're asking for trouble and it will take you forever to fix the problem especially if you're working on a failing hard drive.

As the computer boots in Safe Mode I would be looking at a driver issue, this could well be a rootkit infection rather than a genuine device driver issue.

 

[smlie4]

Firstly you need to decide of was a hardware fault on the old drive causing the problem.

Seagate hard drive diagnostics said the old drive had several errors and should be replaced. I have not tested the new drive, but the old drive would not boot in safe mode whereas the new drive will happily boot in safe mode.

 

[B Trevathan]

As it works on my computer but not customer, this means it is a driver associated with customers computer?

We know windows loads only minimal generic drivers in safe mode and the new drive that you put in the customers computer loaded windows ok in safe mode but would not load windows in normal mode and this was after you ran windows updates on the drive while it was in a different computer, yes I think your right it does sounds like it could be a driver problem.


I wonder if rolling back to a previously installed driver or even uninstalling the updates would help.


Did you think any of the information on this page will help:

How to troubleshoot a Stop 0x0000007E error in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/330182
​

 

[smlie4]

I wonder if rolling back to a previously installed driver or even uninstalling the updates would help.

I did originally use System Restore to go back to a time before.. I got my grubby little mits on the computer. I would have thought this would include drivers.

If not I also though I would have covered this off when I uninstalled all the common drivers video/sound etc so windows would load as though it does on a fresh install before you put the motherboard cd in with all the drivers.

I have never really been conscious of it, but now I think of it drivers only ever come under the optional updates and never under important updates and I always recommend to my customers to stay clear of optional updates as they included things like graphics driver updates which sometimes lead to BSOD issues and can be more trouble than they are worth.

Did you think any of the information on this page will help:

How to troubleshoot a Stop 0x0000007E error in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/330182
​

I did look at this page a couple of hours ago.

I am right in thinking Windows Fixit does not work in safe mode?

I never thought of touching BIOS like it mentions as I would have thought this would be okay.

I used AUTORUNS to disable every service, 3rd party drivers & any box that I could untick in AUTORUNS I unticked it.

I probably would love to read a flow chart on what windows loads through the stages of startup, I am pretty sure at this stage of loading no 3rd party programs would be loaded.

I must mention when I did repair install it won't safe start now, as windows wants to finish the repair installation but will not allow it in safe start and because I can not start in normal mode I have check mated myself.

I would still like to keep the discussion going though as I am learning things.

 

[TLE]

I pulled drive out of computer and took it home and cloned onto new drive with HD Clone which notified me some errors coping all data. I then ran CHKDSK on new drive in my workshop computer after 3 hours the computer booted up on my computer I ran windows important updates and took drive back to customers house.

Hmm, so you cloned the drive and installed it, and booted from it on your own PC before trying it in your customers PC, as well as installing updates. To be honest I am suprsied it didn't BSOD on your system as Windows installations are tied to the hardware they are installed on, unless the installation has had sysprep run against it.

I suspect when it booted it installed additional drivers for the new hardware config such as Chipset, Graphics, LAN etc. etc. rendering it incompatable with your customers systems

 

[gazza]

Why would you clone a failing drive to new drive? The failing drive has a damaged file system so cloning it to a new drive is only going to carry over the damaged file system. Backup the clients data from the failing drive and do a clean install on the new drive and restore their data.

 

[smlie4]

To be honest I am suprsied it didn't BSOD on your system as Windows installations are tied to the hardware they are installed on, unless the installastion has had sysprep run against it.

I was surprised to when it worked on my computer (give me an inch and I will take a 6 miles) and I realize doing Windows updates on my computer was rookie error I won't make again. Even more surprising the customers computer is AMD and mine Intel.

My thought was at the time that I didn't want to sit at customers house for another hour whilst windows updated its self as I had stuff to do at home.

I suspect when it booted it installed additional drivers for the new hardware config such as Chipset, Graphics, LAN etc. etc. rendering it incompatable with your customers systems

I did get the usual XP new hardware has been detected wizard popup, but I just cancelled them.

I did uninstall the Processor driver which had no effect.

There was over 20 drivers under the System devices, with names like ACPI fixed feature button, direct memory access controller, Microcode Update Device. I am guessing these are all related to the MOBO?

 

[smlie4]

Why would you clone a failing drive to new drive? The failing drive has a damaged file system so cloning it to a new drive is only going to carry over the damaged file system. Backup the clients data from the failing drive and do a clean install on the new drive and restore their data.

Computer was from accountant and had a few specialist programs setup. The idea was to clone and then run CHKDSK to repair errors.

This did work to some extent because the drive was happily booting on my computer, it was just when it came to using drive in computer the drive was cloned from.

 

[TLE]

There was over 20 drivers under the System devices, with names like ACPI fixed feature button, direct memory access controller, Microcode Update Device. I am guessing these are all related to the MOBO?

I have to say Smile4, that statements such as this worry me, as it sounds like you have very little experience other than fixing friends and family's PC's. Maybe you should avoid working for business's where data is crucial as is downtime.

 

[smlie4]

I have to say Smile4, that statements such as this worry me, as it sounds like you have very little experience other than fixing friends and family's PC's. Maybe you should avoid working for business's where data is crucial as is downtime.

This is not the main computer. The business is small business, I will not take on larger business's as yes they would be out of my league. The reason small business employ small players like me is because my rates are lower than techs who have high extensive knowledge.

I acknowledge your reply, but don't feel comments like this really give confidence to other up an coming techs.

I would prefer if you provided support. Cheers

 

[Xander]

I acknowledge your reply, but don't feel comments like this really give confidence to other up an coming techs.

You might not like TLE's analysis of the situation, smlie, but that doesn't make him wrong. We're not paid to be nurturing mentors here; we're here voluntarily to offer help to fellow technicians... When a dog is barking up the wrong tree, you don't pat it on the head and tell it, 'Good job', do you?

The business is small business, I will not take on larger business's as yes they would be out of my league. The reason small business employ small players like me is because my rates are lower than techs who have high extensive knowledge.

If you're guessing that devices are connected to the motherboard, it doesn't matter if the computer belongs to a business or residential, it sounds like it's already out of your league. Small businesses pay 'the little guy' not because they have less expertise but because they charge less (typically because they have less expertise). I can find a CraigsLister who will claim all the expertise in the world but that still doesn't make him worth the paltry $20/hr he'll charge.

 

[smlie4]

You might not like TLE's analysis of the situation, smlie, but that doesn't make him wrong. We're not paid to be nurturing mentors here; we're here voluntarily to offer help to fellow technicians... When a dog is barking up the wrong tree, you don't pat it on the head and tell it, 'Good job', do you?
If you're guessing that devices are connected to the motherboard, it doesn't matter if the computer belongs to a business or residential, it sounds like it's already out of your league. Small businesses pay 'the little guy' not because they have less expertise but because they charge less (typically because they have less expertise). I can find a CraigsLister who will claim all the expertise in the world but that still doesn't make him worth the paltry $20/hr he'll charge.

I am sorry for my comment about the MOBO drivers, I have been pretty fatigued today from head cold and not been able to clearly think over everything I am saying.

 

[MobileTechie]

Why would you clone a failing drive to new drive? The failing drive has a damaged file system so cloning it to a new drive is only going to carry over the damaged file system. Backup the clients data from the failing drive and do a clean install on the new drive and restore their data.

I do this all the time and 90% of the time there are no problems at all. Why do it? Because the customer gets their machine back as it was but now working perfectly.

 

[ATTech]

I just want to clarify this for everyone out there...

When you remove a drive from one system and place it in another, as most of you know, if may or may not boot. There are two major factors that contribute to a system not booting in a separate PC: The absence of the proper mass storage drivers, and the hall.dll version.

The former case should be easy to understand; have you ever tried installing an operating system, only to be told that it does not see a hard drive? That's because the windows disc you are using doesn't contain the proper drivers to communicate with the hard drive's controller. If you move a hard drive to another computer, the hard drive needs to contain the drivers that tell the operating system how to communicate through the controller.

The latter case, however, may not seem so obvious. This actually, often gets mistaken for being a mismatched chipset issue. The fact is that while the chipset does dictate which HAL is used, there are only a handful of HAL version while there are substantially more chipsets. Through the pigeon hole principle, we can deduce that some chipsets use the same HAL. So the question is what is the HAL? To put it simply, the HAL helps the operating system communicate with the motherboard and it's features. So what controls what HAL.dll version is used? The presence/lack of APIC & ACPI, as well as Uni vs. Multi processor/processor cores. Now, there is some backwards compatibility with some HALs, but typically if the proper mass storage drivers are present, and the same HAL is used, the system will typically boot on the different hardware.

As someone previously mentioned, when a computer is sysprep'd it will work as well. That's because a sysprep'd hard drive or image will choose and install the proper mass storage drivers, as well as (if set-up properly) install the correct HAL. A warning with that though, the hard drive or image needs to either contain the mass storage drivers, or the sysprep needs to point the computer to where the mass storage drivers can be found.

Keep in mind, this is only in regards to the OPs situation where he was able to boot it from his machine. The subsequent errors he's seeing is likely caused by drivers.

 

[MobileTechie]

What you've done by booting that installation and and updating it on another machine is altered the drivers to match your machine and not the client's machine. You're lucky it even boots in safe mode. That was not a good move.

You could try putting it back in your machine and replacing all the machine specific drivers (mobo, disk controller etc) to generic MS ones to make the installation more system agnostic, uninstall all the 3rd party drivers and then trying it back in the client machine.

Or you could do the drive cloning from scratch and start again.

This is assuming the problem is caused by the above and not just file system damage.

 

[TLE]

I do this all the time and 90% of the time there are no problems at all. Why do it? Because the customer gets their machine back as it was but now working perfectly.

+1

........filler

 

[iptech]

The reason small business employ small players like me is because my rates are lower than techs who have high extensive knowledge.

I acknowledge your reply, but don't feel comments like this really give confidence to other up an coming techs.

I would prefer if you provided support. Cheers

That's great, you undercut your peers to get the work and then you expect them to give you the answers for free.

It sounds like the cheap option will not work out so cheap for your customer.

 

[iptech]

I do this all the time and 90% of the time there are no problems at all. Why do it? Because the customer gets their machine back as it was but now working perfectly.

Absolutely, nothing wrong with trying this, if you clone a drive in its early stages of failure there's every chance of success. Most often filesystem damage from platter wear will occur where the drive gets most use i.e. the area where the pagefile sits. I always delete this and hibefil.sys from cloned drives.