Bernie Sanders is only candidate that opposes CISA

[TechLady]

And the big decisions are made behind the scenes with lots of dollars pushing agenda...by people that aren't elected into our government, yet they call the shots. Monsanto and Koch bros as examples.

This is completely correct. But if you actually want to push things the other way, you're gonna have to stop voting for the guys in bed with them. It's that simple. And you need to vote...not voting isn't rebellion, it's surrender (I'm looking at YOU, young'uns!).

There's an awful lot of things I don't like about America right now, but I'm not going anywhere. Love It or Leave It is such a hilarious phrase. Every time conservatives throw that around, you know, demanding that all liberals just leave, I laugh because true patriotism isn't "moving out," it's staying and trying to make things better. Not worshiping a flag. Not blowing up civilians in far away hospitals. Not sitting around complaining while watching football. No, it's staying right here and working for change.

How did we get to a point where corporations control literally everything? This man can explain. Manufacturing Consent is a good start.

Lastly, I'd recommend not getting into a gun debate again. It goes nowhere.

 

[phaZed]

I wanted to see because your sources are junk.

It doesn't even take more than a second or two to see just how inaccurate it is. Where is John Allen Muhammad? he killed 10. Not listed in the totals. Why is that? Oh wait, silly me. If a RWNJ kills a bunch of people then it is home grown terrorism. If a LWNJ kills a bunch of people it is because of the NRA and gun laws.

Show me why John Allen Muhammad should be included:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Allen_Muhammad

Nothing about his case mentioned Religious Extremism, hence, it's not included in a list of Religious Extremists! Still have yet to see a single source from you.. so perhaps you should proclaim your sources.

 

[OaksLabs]

Lastly, I'd recommend not getting into a gun debate again. It goes nowhere.

I think you are correct -- and if I may expand I think most debates go nowhere. Each side claims to have the correct facts, the better solution, and the exclusive view on reality. Each side also claims that their opponents are crazy, uneducated, brainwashed, and in the dark.

Truthfully I believe the reality of most matters lies in the middle -- but the catch 22 is that you can only see what the middle is from one side or another.

The only thing that will change people is either life experience or an appeal to the heart. No master logical construction or stunning example of "X" in action will satisfy opponents.

"There is nothing new under the sun" - King Solomon

 

[alluseridsrejected]

Show me why John Allen Muhammad should be included:

How about his own repeated statements such as, “America got what it deserved on 9/11". Oh wait, that might not make him a jihadist. It might just make him a democrat. Seriously, he was only one example of obviously many that are missing from your list. How many more would it take to convince you?

 

[phaZed]

Ho hum. Sources yet to be produced. Why is it I have to produce sources, yet you don't?

I will be happy to review your sources and all of the "missing" extremists you care to muster. There is no empirical evidence that what you claim is true. Again, believe what you want but it's a bit two-faced IMO. If you want to change the litmus test for what a Religious Extremist is to include the mentally ill, well, so goes UP the side of Christian extremists too and we can include Moms drowning their kids in reflecting pools.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

This is completely correct. But if you actually want to push things the other way, you're gonna have to stop voting for the guys in bed with them. It's that simple. And you need to vote...not voting isn't rebellion, it's surrender (I'm looking at YOU, young'uns!)..

Agreed....the pickin's are slim though...mighty slim! Can't think of choice I liked in the past 4 or so elections.
I am capable of liking candidates from both parties....going back to what I mentioned earlier, I'm a believer in flipping parties every now and then to keep the gov't from being too slanted. The best decade of my life....Reagon years to Clinton years ...started leveling out with Georgie senior.

 

[alluseridsrejected]

Why is it I have to produce sources, yet you don't?

Why do I need to produce sources? When we have your wiki that you must not have read that says:


After his arrest, authorities also claimed that Muhammad admitted that he admired and modeled himself after Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda, and approved of the September 11 attacks.

 

[phaZed]

 

[seedubya]

And I am speaking of the influx of people now into this country who specifically say that they want to destroy us, that their mandate is to kill us (unless we're of their faith).

Crazy damn Mexican Catholics - we'll all have to go to Confession or face the Inquisition!!

And I am all for the right to bare arms.

I'm in favour of that too. I have very shapely arms, all the gentlemen say so. Go short sleeves!!

 

[red12049]

Why do I need to produce sources? When we have your wiki that you must not have read that says:


After his arrest, authorities also claimed that Muhammad admitted that he admired and modeled himself after Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda, and approved of the September 11 attacks.

Would those ten people influence the conclusion that home grown Christians are responsible for more dead than Islamists in this country? If not then you need to support YOUR conclusion with cites. Simply saying your opponent's cites are invalid means nothing without proving why.

See Moltuae's sig about facts and beliefs.

Rick

 

[seedubya]

Unfortunately these threads, entertaining as they are, go nowhere. No-one is convinced, no-one changes their mind and I guarantee that most don't read the quoted sources. Some people are interested in truth and some in ideology. But it's OK coz now we liberals can pull the God-fearin' part out of the their gold-darn'd heads - WITH MAGNETS!

 

[TechLady]

Agreed....the pickin's are slim though...mighty slim! Can't think of choice I liked in the past 4 or so elections.
I am capable of liking candidates from both parties....going back to what I mentioned earlier, I'm a believer in flipping parties every now and then to keep the gov't from being too slanted. The best decade of my life....Reagon years to Clinton years ...started leveling out with Georgie senior.

Everybody loves the 80s because we all had more hair and the cocaine was great. +1 for not watching Fox.

 

[alluseridsrejected]

Simply saying your opponent's cites are invalid means nothing without proving why.

I did prove why. His list is incomplete, inaccurate, biased and just flat out misleading with an apples and oranges comparison. But that is not enough for you? How about 5 dead on 07/15/2015 in Chattanooga when a devout muslim stages a suicide attack on a recruiting center at a strip mall and a naval center. Or how about 4/13/2004 Raleigh, NC when an angry Muslim runs down five strangers with a car leaving one dead? Not enough for you? How about 3/24/2013 Ashtabula, OH when a muslim convert walks into a church service with a Quran and guns down his Christian father while praising Allah. Or how about 2/7/2013 Buena Vista, NJ when a muslim targets and beheads two Christian Coptic immigrants.

I mean seriously, there is so much missing it is just ridiculous that those on the left buy this junk. Come on, do your research!

 

[phaZed]

You just copied word for word, those dates and lines, verbatim, from a list that is without sources - as if you did research.
Everyone, Google "An angry Muslim runs down five strangers with a car." and see what ridiculous "sources" pop up, or lack thereof. Or google each of the things listed and it goes back to this baseless list.
This list is housed on www.thereligionofpeace.com of which has "the politically incorrect truth about islam one really messed up religion" as its oversized tagline. Ppft.. yeah, that site is the poster child for "truth". Of course the site's very own name "The Religion of Peace" is commonly used sarcastically by Right-wing political pundits and commentators like Anne Coulter... and the site follows that commentary very well.

Researching that site produces reports like this:

TheReligionOfPeace.Com and the Faulty “Islamic Terrorism Ticker”:

If you visit JihadWatch, AtlasShrugs or any of the too numerous to count anti-Muslim hate sites and blogs, you are likely to find on the sidebar a hyperlinked image claiming that “Islamic Terrorists have carried out more than _____ Deadly Terror Attacks Since 9/11.” The image was created by the anti-Islam hate site, The Religion of Peace (TROP), associated with Islamophobe Daniel Greenfield, aka “SultanKnish,” who you will recall earns a pretty penny from the David Horowitz Freedom Center.

http://www.loonwatch.com/2012/07/th...treamline-the-american-empires-war-on-terror/
http://islamophobia132.weebly.com/the-religion-of-peace-and-islam-watch.html

Congratulations, you're quoting from an Anti-Islamic hate group and Islamophobe Daniel Greenfield. The "David Horowitz Freedom Center" is a far-right political think tank known for it's far-right Anti-Islam and Anti-African American views... basically if you're not white, they don't like you. They literally blamed slavery on African Americans and that Racism is a lie, therefore, "Blacks" shouldn't get any special treatment... as if.

Let's see if it holds any water, shall we?

07/15/2015 Chattanooga - Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez
Ruled as mental illness. Had history of severe depression and Drug Abuse (Against Muslim religion, BTW), abusive home; was abused by father.
Newsreel Video

The U.S. National Counterterrorism Center said it has seen nothing so far to connect Abdulazeez to any terrorist organization.

The U.S. National Counterterrorism Center is reporting no apparent nexus to terrorism has been uncovered in the investigation of the fatal shootings in Tennessee, but intelligence officials are monitoring the investigation closely.

http://www.denverpost.com/letters/ci_28493576/latest-police-say-chattanooga-active-shooting-now-over

A law enforcement official also told NBC News that Abdulazeez's uncle in Jordan is believed to be "radical" and officials are investigating whether he influenced Abdulazeez when he was living there. Abdulazeez traveled to Jordan from April to November 2014.

Abdulazeez's family said Tuesday that the uncle is not radical as was described. They said the uncle, 40, is a naturalized U.S. citizen born in Kuwait, and is a business owner in Jordan who moved to that country in 2010 to help take care of his parents.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ch...cordings-radical-cleric-officials-say-n395986

4/13/2004 - Can't seem to find any news article relating to it.. the line "An angry Muslim runs down five strangers with a car." is only repeated in comments sections of news sites and is parroted disproportionately by names such as "Andy Zimmerman" and "IT pro". This site seems to be the source (But is just a "listing" of attacks without reference). I stand to be corrected on this one. Awaiting your reputable source.

3/24/2004 - Again, can't find any news articles relating to it.. found Ashtabula news for a Sex offender and a theft/break-in on the same date - but not what you claim. Again, only place this seems to live is in the very same list you copied from, here. I stand to be corrected. Awaiting your reputable source.

2/7/2013 - Yusuf Ibrahim

Police say Ibrahim got into an altercation on Feb. 5 with two acquaintances, 25-year-old Hanny F. Tawadros and 27-year-old Amgad A. Konds, while in a white Mercedes-Benz belonging to one of the victims. The men, all Egyptian immigrants, were in Jersey City at the time.

She described Ibrahim as a Muslim but noted that he wasn't particularly religious.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/e...red-beheaded-in-nj-90424/#QslztzuFW35QCYyt.99

The announcement of the murder indictment comes hours after Yusuf Ibrahim, 29, was arraigned before Hudson County Superior Court Judge Mitzy Galis-Menendez on charges he robbed a man, pistolwhipped him and shot him in the foot in Jersey City on Sept. 19, 2012.

Ibrahim also is charged with first-degree carjacking and armed robbery in an indictment obtained by the Hudson County Prosecutor's Office related to a carjacking in Jersey City in September 2012.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/...hs_atlantic_hudson_counties_court_appear.html

Not one mention of Muslim extremism or similar. Yusuf's actions would be severely unbecoming of a Muslim. He was just a carjacking dirt bag.

Notice the Tattoos (Against Muslim Religion)

I mean seriously, there is so much missing it is just ridiculous that those on the left buy this junk. Come on, do your research!

I'm going to fact check what you say.

If you ask me, the list you pulled from is simply a list of people who committed crimes who have "Muslim Sounding" names. That's not to say that they didn't mix in some real ones too. Awaiting your reputable sources.

 

[TCG]

I know it says Facebook, but it seems to apply here as well, actually it applies everywhere!

 

[red12049]

I did prove why. His list is incomplete, inaccurate, biased and just flat out misleading with an apples and oranges comparison. But that is not enough for you? How about 5 dead on 07/15/2015 in Chattanooga when a devout muslim stages a suicide attack on a recruiting center at a strip mall and a naval center. Or how about 4/13/2004 Raleigh, NC when an angry Muslim runs down five strangers with a car leaving one dead? Not enough for you? How about 3/24/2013 Ashtabula, OH when a muslim convert walks into a church service with a Quran and guns down his Christian father while praising Allah. Or how about 2/7/2013 Buena Vista, NJ when a muslim targets and beheads two Christian Coptic immigrants.

I mean seriously, there is so much missing it is just ridiculous that those on the left buy this junk. Come on, do your research!

Since Phazed has shown that there are many inaccuracies in your post, may I politely suggest that you follow your own advice regarding research?

Additionally, you've changed the question to fit your belief. I asked if this changed the original conclusion that homegrown Christians were responsible for more terrorism than immigrant Muslims?

Finally, the fact that I prefer to debate with facts, science and rationality does not put me "on the left." Your bias is showing.

Rick

 

[alluseridsrejected]

Since Phazed has shown that there are many inaccuracies in your post, may I politely suggest that you follow your own advice regarding research?

What are you talking about? Phazed has shown absolutely zero inaccuracies in anything I have posted with his desperate attempt to deny his discredited political hack job study. Why do liberals seem to think the volume of their post means anything? A bigger pile of dung just stinks that much more. It matters not whether ties were found to organized terror. ISIS is calling for lone wolf attacks. That is what this probably was. And of course these nut jobs had other issues. They were still muslims and they still attempted mass murder. All you have to do is look at Phazed's own links to see that.

So Phazed, did you examine all of your list of right wing attacks to see if any of them should be disqualified according to your standard of "they are not a terrorist if they had drug issues"?

It is laughable, the straws you two are grabbing at, running off on unrelated rants, trying to defend your thoroughly discredited study.

I am sure you guy's will post additional responses to this, liberals also for some reason think having the last statement means something, no matter how ridiculous the claims are they are making, this I am sure will give you some false sense of a little straw of victory to grasp at, but I have actual work to do today, I just signed up with datto and my demo unit is supposed to be here today.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

I know it says Facebook, but it seems to apply here as well, actually it applies everywhere!

LMAO! So true!

 

[seedubya]

I know it says Facebook, but it seems to apply here as well, actually it applies everywhere! View attachment 5147

You're right but here's the thing there are many, many times more people reading those discussions who'll never participate but who may be on the fence one way or the other. Those are the people who may see your argument as having merit. Personally, I find the entire thing frustrating to the point where I don't bother participating most of the time, just snipe from the sidelines. Why? I've never, ever seen a con v lib discussion that didn't involve the cons treating unsubstantiated rumours and opinions as if they were fact, point blank ignoring anything that doesn't match their world view and outright denial.

As far as I can see conservative vs liberal thinking seems to be the difference between self and others, illogic and logic, superstition and science, fiction and fact, belief and knowledge. It's like arguing with vicious children.

 

[seedubya]

What are you talking about? Phazed has shown absolutely zero inaccuracies in anything I have posted with his desperate attempt to deny his discredited political hack job study. Why do liberals seem to think the volume of their post means anything? A bigger pile of dung just stinks that much more. It matters not whether ties were found to organized terror. ISIS is calling for lone wolf attacks. That is what this probably was. And of course these nut jobs had other issues. They were still muslims and they still attempted mass murder. All you have to do is look at Phazed's own links to see that.

So Phazed, did you examine all of your list of right wing attacks to see if any of them should be disqualified according to your standard of "they are not a terrorist if they had drug issues"?

It is laughable, the straws you two are grabbing at, running off on unrelated rants, trying to defend your thoroughly discredited study.

I am sure you guy's will post additional responses to this, liberals also for some reason think having the last statement means something, no matter how ridiculous the claims are they are making, this I am sure will give you some false sense of a little straw of victory to grasp at, but I have actual work to do today, I just signed up with datto and my demo unit is supposed to be here today.

Wow, you get pwned for not fact-checking and then turn it around and make it about your opponent, whose sources you obviously haven't even read. I propose a new handle - alllogicalargumentandfactsrejectedinfavourofrightwingnutxtiaxenophobicbullsh1t.