Anyone else sick of iPads and apple

[gunslinger]

Bought my first apple product the iPhone 4s when it was released and the new iPad when it came out. I'm not looking back I love both devices. I used to hate apple but when I think about it I didn't have a reason and was just being awkward.

And thats 99.9998% of the Apple haters out there. They like to hate on Apple because its trendy and they think is somehow makes them look smart. At least to people who don't know any better. I use to be an Apple hater also. Never really knew why, just what I had heard from other "techs". Got a Mac and never looked back. IMO the only reason why anyone would dislike Apple is because they go at it expecting it to be Windows or Android and never really give it a fair chance. Thats the hardest part. Not being a close minded Jackass.

 

[compnet]

And thats 99.9998% of the Apple haters out there. They like to hate on Apple because its trendy and they think is somehow makes them look smart. At least to people who don't know any better. I use to be an Apple hater also. Never really knew why, just what I had heard from other "techs". Got a Mac and never looked back. IMO the only reason why anyone would dislike Apple is because they go at it expecting it to be Windows or Android and never really give it a fair chance. Thats the hardest part. Not being a close minded Jackass.

So YOU didn't know why and were just hating on Apple to be cool, so everyone else is the same way......

I don't like Apple because,

A) its all overpriced
B) they are a pain to work on
C) a and b are because they put looks over function
D) non removable batteries
E) drm and other locked down nonsense
F) paid minor updates
G)no right click til lion and other "it just works" nonsense
H) I play games and like free apps and pc apps
I) their eula prevents me from building a custom machine

The list goes on. Apples makes some pretty stuff, for some people they work pretty good too. For me there has never been a question. You can debate those points, but I have reasons to hate on Apple. If anything apple is the trend - 80-90% of the MAC users I ask why they use one quote Justin long from one of those apple commercials.

Edit;

Oh yaaaa, and j) those stupid Justin long commercials

 

[ell]

Ha, this is getting fun! ok both my brothers are avid mac people, one a graphic industrial designer, the other a musician. Both my parents have macs,ipad,iphones too...but me. I'm a windows/android black sheep. The reason is simple, macs are beautiful well designed pieces of machinery, made to "just work". Ewww, whats the fun in that? If I can't tinker with it, install whatever I want, pull it apart easily, plus pay way less for the same speed, its no fun having. My first laptop I had so long when one of the hinges wore out I glued a brass drawer hinge on it! (LOL that really caught the attention at the coffee shop, people thought I paid a fortune for it) Macs are just no fun to mess with.

 

[Rob_NNCC]

First off, I would like to say I had an iPhone 3, an iPhone 3s, and I have a fairly new Macbook so I am not an uneducated un-experienced Apple hater.

That being said, just Saturday I finished up part of a 3 day onsite call to get an iPad to print. The owner never updated it and it was running 3.2, so it would not print to his HP Envy 100 (cool looking printer btw). First call was to assess everything, back up the iPad and start the update downloading (2 hours to download, but hey, its a new OS, can't complain too much).
Next call was to back it up again and start the upgrade.
Last call was to take it out of restore mode where it locked up and wiped everything off the iPad. Got it working, restored the data and set up the printer. Fairly easy and smooth, but I do not like iTunes, and I did not like having to do a restore of the customer's data. Over 70% of the data on the iPad was lost according to the usage bar.

Apple products are made to be disposable and are proprietary on purpose. Someone please explain the SMC and why a good deal of unibody Apple laptops needs to have it reset every 3rd time you use it otherwise the battery does not charge...

I guess I do not like Apple products as much as free and open products because I have to learn 'secret handshakes' to resolve issues on a system that is different 'just because'

 

[16k_zx81]

Couldnt care less what sort of electronics someone uses.

Wanna own an Apple? Go for it. They are great devices that do exactly what it says on the box, and keep doing it, usually for a very long time.

When customers ask me 'should I buy an apple?' I invariably say, "Yes, if you can afford it, its a great investment. Im sure you will love it and never look back". Why? - because thats what I (usually) think is best for end users with money.

Unfortunately worse for me, because they tend not to come back after that.

I dont own Apple gear because I dont like it. Never have. Just a personal preference. I like PC's and Android.

I also prefer a good Steak to Seafood. When I go to a restaurant I assume I can order whatever I want because in the company of adults who can respect that different people have different tastes.

Not quite sure why this conversation routinely tends to take an evangelical route, but sided thinking on this subject is just dumb in my opinion.

.

 

[gunslinger]

A) its all overpriced
B) they are a pain to work on
C) a and b are because they put looks over function
D) non removable batteries
E) drm and other locked down nonsense
F) paid minor updates
G)no right click til lion and other "it just works" nonsense
H) I play games and like free apps and pc apps
I) their eula prevents me from building a custom machine

A) Compared to what? You pay more for a quality product. Works the same for anything.

B) They are not hard to work on, you have to know what you are doing. They were made to be user friendly not tinker friendly.

C) While they do look great, they also function perfectly. See last part of B.

D) On what devices? Their Phones? Its not a quick change battery in their notebooks, but not everyone carries around 2-3 batteries.

E) Their DRM and other locked down nonsense as you say is to keep the script kiddies out of the OS and make for better user experience. Its also why they don't get infected like PCs.

F) Oh, you mean like from Vista to win 7? You know, the update that made Vista stop sucking so hard. The update you paid between $99 and 200 for. At least you only pay $29 for a new Mac OS. Define "Minor update" because if you are talking Snow Leopard to Lion or Lion to mountain I can come right back with Vista to 7 and 7 to 8. Just as many changes made and mountain Lion works while Win 8 most people will agree sucks balls.

G) Are you retarded? Macs have always had "right click" for you to even come up with something so stupid clearly shows you have never even used one. I'm on Snow Leopard and can "right Click" would you like a screen shot?

H) Ah, so its what you like. Not that there is really anything wrong with MAC or OSX, you just can't play your little games on it. Therefore you try to justify it sucks. I use a ton of free apps on my Mac. In fact most of the apps I use are free. Being a PC guy you can also pirate Mac apps from bit torrent, I know that should appeal to you.

I) The EULA is their to keep some dipshit from installing OS X on a machine it was never made for and screwing up the user experience.

 

[bytebuster]

Arghhh..I work in the health industry (IT) and we are getting barraged by dont like to say but probie execs & dr's that just MUST have the latest. The latest flavour is of course the iPad 3. These users have no idea of tech and fall for all the media hype that apple targets (does well I might add).

Though is frustrating from a tech point of view how Apple release a piece of **** with little or no benifit than the last. For instance 4G, this service is not even available within Australia until I think eta - 2014-15 and by then ther will be iPlod 42. So what other benifits, more pixels nice screen res & better camera BUY A CAMERA!, WOW!

SF Chronicle just posted an article on how Apple is blowing away PC makers with the iPad. I've decided to learn iPhone repair, since that seems to be the future. I am a little clumsy and uncoordinated to be working on iPhones, but I feel that's the future, so I gotta suck it up and figure it out. Hey, you can either go with the flow or sink.

 

[compnet]

Ok, I was just giving you examples of why I don't use Apple products, no need for childish name calling.

A) Compared to what? You pay more for a quality product. Works the same for anything.

My laptop I paid under 400 for does everything a macbook can, and hasn't given me a single issue.. ever. My EVO I paid 80 dollars for 18 months ago has never given me a single issue..

What are you paying for again?? Oh ya, a pretty unibody.

B) They are not hard to work on, you have to know what you are doing. They were made to be user friendly not tinker friendly.

They are made so you have to take them to the apple store when you spill a drink on your keyboard. I've worked on 100s of macs now, and I know what I'm doing... Over 50 screws to replace a keyboard is a pain, I guess unless the sheer joy of being a fanboy overrides that.

D) On what devices? Their Phones? Its not a quick change battery in their notebooks, but not everyone carries around 2-3 batteries.

Yes their phones, and batteries die if you weren't aware.

E) Their DRM and other locked down nonsense as you say is to keep the script kiddies out of the OS and make for better user experience. Its also why they don't get infected like PCs.

Oh they don't get infected? I should refund the virus removal on the Imac I did last month..

They don't get infected AS OFTEN because it doesn't make sense to write a virus for a system that only has 5-10% market share.

G) Are you retarded? Macs have always had "right click" for you to even come up with something so stupid clearly shows you have never even used one. I'm on Snow Leopard and can "right Click" would you like a screen shot?

Yes I'm retarded.. I've plugged in 2 button mice in older macs and right click didn't work.. The fact that they shipped them with 1 button mice is part of the whole ideology surrounding mac that I for one don't appreciate.

H) Ah, so its what you like. Not that there is really anything wrong with MAC or OSX, you just can't play your little games on it. Therefore you try to justify it sucks. I use a ton of free apps on my Mac. In fact most of the apps I use are free. Being a PC guy you can also pirate Mac apps from bit torrent, I know that should appeal to you.

Did I say anything was wrong with OSX? Or did I say I like to play games and that's why I don't use it???

I) The EULA is their to keep some dipshit from installing OS X on a machine it was never made for and screwing up the user experience.

Which is why, in my opinion, windows is superior.. Its been made to work on almost uncountable combinations of hardware configurations.. That to me, and many other people, is part of the fun of a computer..


Anyway... I'm really not here to get into a fanboy debate. Just rebutting your opinion that everyone else was like you and had no reason to hate apple. Have fun with your Ipad.. Glad it works for you.

 

[anonymous Mac Tech]

They are made so you have to take them to the apple store when you spill a drink on your keyboard. I've worked on 100s of macs now, and I know what I'm doing... Over 50 screws to replace a keyboard is a pain, I guess unless the sheer joy of being a fanboy overrides that.

You've obviously not worked on "100s" because you would've found the unibodies easy to work on by now. Actually the iMacs are more difficult to work on then the laptops now. If you still think the unibodies are difficult after "100s" of them, an ibook or a 12" powerbook would send you home crying.

Oh they don't get infected? I should refund the virus removal on the Imac I did last month..

Yeah, you really should since there are no known virus for OSX. Most likely a trojan that literally should've taken no more than 5 minutes to remove.

They don't get infected AS OFTEN because it doesn't make sense to write a virus for a system that only has 5-10% market share.

Had no idea you could know that even if the tables were turned and OSX had as much market share as Windows that you would see as many if not more infected Macs than Windows boxes. That's a talent that nobody in the world could know besides you I suppose. You could be making so much more money not being a tech and using your supernatural abilities to see things that may never happen.

Yes I'm retarded.. I've plugged in 2 button mice in older macs and right click didn't work.. The fact that they shipped them with 1 button mice is part of the whole ideology surrounding mac that I for one don't appreciate.

You'd better get that mouse replaced, its obviously got a broken right button.

 

[compnet]

You've obviously not worked on "100s" because you would've found the unibodies easy to work on by now. Actually the iMacs are more difficult to work on then the laptops now. If you still think the unibodies are difficult after "100s" of them, an ibook or a 12" powerbook would send you home crying.

Geez you kids are crazy.. I've worked on ibooks before.. worked on imacs before.. If you can't accept that 50 screws is too many to replace a keyboard, when every other laptop out there is around 5 screws and 5 minutes, there is no point to this conversation.

Yeah, you really should since there are no known virus for OSX. Most likely a trojan that literally should've taken no more than 5 minutes to remove.

And you're a mac tech?? seriously?? Did justin long tell you there's no viruses?

I'm done with this.. anonymous and gunslinger, please don't respond..

 

[gunslinger]

I'm done with this.. anonymous and gunslinger, please don't respond..

Send me a Mac virus, I challenge you to.

I'm using a logitech performance MX mouse and this is what I see when I right click.

You are done because you can't make any legit points. Just decade old rumors, misinformation and bs. You also know you can't prove most of what you said and are getting torn apart.

A simple "I was wrong and should have kept my mouth shut" will do nicely.

 

[bitbytes]

... I would rather be not engaging in stupid animal analogies.

You just managed to disrespect something like half the adult population, and a significant number of techs who use Apple products by choice.

Congrats.

Ok Sheep...

Graze on...

You post and have an opinion in every thread on this forum. Don't you have more important things to do with your life?

 

[compnet]

Send me a Mac virus, I challenge you to.

lol. No seriously. I'm done.

 

[gunslinger]

lol. No seriously. I'm done.

Really? No comment on that right click action going on?

 

[Encrypted Existence]

Really? No comment on that right click action going on?

I am a noob when it comes to Macs. I just got a Macbook Pro. Does the right click work with the trackpad? This thread has been VERY amusing BTW...thank you all for lightening up my Monday.

 

[Martyn]

I am a noob when it comes to Macs. I just got a Macbook Pro. Does the right click work with the trackpad? This thread has been VERY amusing BTW...thank you all for lightening up my Monday.

Just use the ctrl key and click for right click.

Please keep the personal jibes out of the debate. If you can't debate as adults keep out.

 

[Encrypted Existence]

Just use the ctrl key and click for right click.

Thanks Martyn. Much appreciated.

 

[phaZed]

Overpriced isn't necessarily accurate anymore either. Macbook Air is comparable to new ultrabooks by other manufacturers (MBA clones) and iPads are about a cheap as they come comparing to most any decent (ie speedy) android tablet (minus the Kindle Fire, but that's not really comparable either due to screen size and raw speed).

Basically, they own the markets they have started recently and by monopolizing component sources due to the demand they are staying even or sometimes cheaper than the competition.

Sorry my friend, you are incorrect and have fallen victim to marketing and price-shifting. Also, android tablets have been outperforming Apple iPads. I would like to call you out on the "monopolizing component resources" bit and have you provide some proof that Apple is staying cheaper than the competition because of the component monopolization. From what I have gathered, the Android devices that are more $ is because of supply and demand as seen at http://www.zerohedge.com/article/jp...-complete-bullsh1t-guise-equity-research-i-ca

(iPhone)
"Heh Another Piece of Idiocy Exposed!"
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?singlepost=2878455

The problem with subsidies is that they're a massive market distortion in that they result in cost-shifting from the consumer to the provider of service (the cellphone company.) This in turn forces prices higher for service, because the firm has to recover the subsidy plus a profit, since the time value of money is never zero.

This distortion is especially-pernicious in the case of devices like the iPhone, which carries an average subsidy about $400 -- a ridiculous amount of money when one considers that this is translates into at least $20/month (including the time value of the funds) over a 2 year term.

One of the points I make in Leverage is that this is implicit debt-based levering of the consumer, because they "think" the phone costs $200 when in fact it does not, and over the course of their contract due to the profit motive the actual excess cost can be even more-substantial. For example the usual "iPhone" contract is roughly $100/month, where the same unlimited-everything Virgin Mobile service is $55. That $45/month over two year is close to $1,000.

You effectively pay for the phone twice by deferring the cash purchase!

Apple's iPad Is Losing Market Share And Profit Margin As Apple Hits All Time High
http://www.zerohedge.com/contribute...re-and-profit-margin-apple-hits-all-time-high

Goldman Sells Nearly Half $Billion Of Apple Stock Directly Into Their Client's Conviction Buy Recommendation: Guess Who Really Agrees With Reggie Now!
http://boombustblog.com/index.php?option=com_k2&Itemid=200079&id=5584&lang=en&view=item

JP Morgan Follows Goldman’s Steps In Issuing Utter & Complete Bullsh1t In The Guise Of Equity Research: I Call Them On It!
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/jp...-complete-bullsh1t-guise-equity-research-i-ca

Samsung outshines Apple in smartphone shipments, market share
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-5...s-apple-in-smartphone-shipments-market-share/

... I would rather be not engaging in stupid animal analogies.

You just managed to disrespect something like half the adult population, and a significant number of techs who use Apple products by choice.

Congrats.

A bit inflated on the market share there. First, the entire population does not have tablets. Apple does hold the 2011 Q4 results with 54.7% of tablet sales, but that is down 6.2% from 2011 Q3 with Android's share from 32.3 percent to 44.6 percent, up 11.3% in the same quarter last year.

"Needham & Co. analyst Charlie Wolf said the Mac had reached 5.2 percent of worldwide computer sales. While that seems like a tiny slice of a huge industry — and it is — it’s the largest chunk of PC market share Apple has owned in 15 years."
http://gigaom.com/apple/mac-making-a-move-in-the-enterprise-grew-44-percent-in-q3/

Pew came out with a report that says roughly 19% of the population owns a tablet.
http://www.pewinternet.org/Reports/2012/E-readers-and-tablets/Findings.aspx

So, it's more like he disrespected like 8% of the population.

I waited in line the day iPad 3 came out (30 minutes)

I think Apple makes amazing products and I really like the iPad 3. The display is stunning and the battery lasts all day.

Let's face it - if Apple wasn't around making their operating system so cool -we would still be on XP service pack 5.

That's not to say that I don't like Windows - because I really do - but you can't deny that Apple comes up with some cool stuff.

Eh, someone said it well earlier, a bit Fisher Price for me too. Apple is hardly the reason MS releases newer operating systems. MS Churns a new OS out by following a schedule that is announced 3-5 years ahead of time.... as it has always done.

A) Compared to what? You pay more for a quality product. Works the same for anything.

B) They are not hard to work on, you have to know what you are doing. They were made to be user friendly not tinker friendly.

C) While they do look great, they also function perfectly. See last part of B.

D) On what devices? Their Phones? Its not a quick change battery in their notebooks, but not everyone carries around 2-3 batteries.

E) Their DRM and other locked down nonsense as you say is to keep the script kiddies out of the OS and make for better user experience. Its also why they don't get infected like PCs.

F) Oh, you mean like from Vista to win 7? You know, the update that made Vista stop sucking so hard. The update you paid between $99 and 200 for. At least you only pay $29 for a new Mac OS. Define "Minor update" because if you are talking Snow Leopard to Lion or Lion to mountain I can come right back with Vista to 7 and 7 to 8. Just as many changes made and mountain Lion works while Win 8 most people will agree sucks balls.

G) Are you retarded? Macs have always had "right click" for you to even come up with something so stupid clearly shows you have never even used one. I'm on Snow Leopard and can "right Click" would you like a screen shot?

H) Ah, so its what you like. Not that there is really anything wrong with MAC or OSX, you just can't play your little games on it. Therefore you try to justify it sucks. I use a ton of free apps on my Mac. In fact most of the apps I use are free. Being a PC guy you can also pirate Mac apps from bit torrent, I know that should appeal to you.

I) The EULA is their to keep some dipshit from installing OS X on a machine it was never made for and screwing up the user experience.

A) Macs are Intel now, so as far as hardware goes.. it's no better than any other laptop of the same spec. Foxconn is making the boards for Apple... as well as many other manufacturers. So to claim that Apple is "better" in this respect is ignorant. This argument may have held true when IBM was making the processor, but not now.

B) BS. They are harder to work on from a hardware stand-point (Which is what I think the original poster was referring to). Sure, the OS is "easier" in many respects.

C) For something that functions perfectly, I get an awful lot of "perfect" Macs to work on. So the Toshiba or WD hard drive in the Mac is "perfect". The overheating motherboards and GPU's in Unibody's are "perfect". Gimme a break.

D) Practically all of Apple's devices have no removable battery (Non-User serviceable). Apple didn't make magic batteries, and they will fail just like any other Li-ION battery. To try and dismiss this fact as not important is ridiculous. It is made to be a disposable device... and if disposal is marked by the death of the battery, you're looking at 2-5 years max. No thanks.

E) DRM, Digital Rights Management is nothing more than the forced protection of copyrighted digital content and has nothing to do with Script Kiddies or local security. It is there to force you into purchasing content (even if you already own it). The locked down non-sense is unneccessary and is in place so that they can protect Apple's intellectual property. Everyone knows that Apple's OS is based on FreeBSD (LINUX DAMNIT) and that is why it's secure.. no thanks to Apple since they had nothing to do with FreeBSD.

F)Now you do sound like the Apple fanboy. Windows 7 didn't make Vista stop sucking. Patches and updates did. You don't have to upgrade to 7 to get the stability and performance of 7 in Vista. You can offset the price of Windows by saving yourself $500-1200 in comparable hardware in the PC space.

G) Are you retarded? Macs HAVE NOT always had right click capability, and it wasn't until 2005 (I think) that the Two-button mouse was able to be used. You are obviously real full of yourself. Oh, and PC's have been using 3-4 button mouses since the 80's BTW.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Mouse

Apple Mighty Mouse
Previously included with all new Macintosh desktop models, it was a major departure from Apple's one-button philosophy integrated in its design since the Lisa.

H)It's not that you can't play games on Mac, it's just that 90% of the games that YOU WANT TO PLAY.. the same ones that are on Consoles are not available on Mac. It's not that the Mac can't do it, it is that developers do not see the advantage to porting games for 5% of the market share. The same thing applies to many other types of software. This causes adoption issues. Free Apps doesn't mean stolen apps. I somewhat agree with the original poster. I like free apps (not stolen), and there is no shortage of free apps for just about anything. Apple has free apps, but is in limited supply, and you may be forced to purchase software to meet your needs as many of the "must have apps" are not free. Just sayin.

I) BS. Their EULA is there so that they sell the hardware and maintain control of every facet of their business. User experience my ass. For your information, Jobs solidified this idea when he cancelled OS 7.7 and came out with OS 8.. which changed the EULA, and cancelled third party vendors rights to the software... which in turn killed all production of 3rd party Mac Clones.

Mac OS 8 was released on July 26, 1997, shortly after Steve Jobs returned to the company. It was mainly released to keep the Mac OS moving forward during a difficult time for Apple. Initially planned as Mac OS 7.7, it was renumbered "8" to exploit a legal loophole and accomplish Jobs's goal of terminating third-party manufacturers' licenses to System 7 and shutting down the Macintosh clone market.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mac_OS#Mac_OS_7.6

SF Chronicle just posted an article on how Apple is blowing away PC makers with the iPad. I've decided to learn iPhone repair, since that seems to be the future. I am a little clumsy and uncoordinated to be working on iPhones, but I feel that's the future, so I gotta suck it up and figure it out. Hey, you can either go with the flow or sink.

Please cite your sources. I was unable to find the article you mentioned at SF Chronicle. Please read the above links to educate yourself about the current trends, which ATM, are contrary to your statement.

You've obviously not worked on "100s" because you would've found the unibodies easy to work on by now. Actually the iMacs are more difficult to work on then the laptops now. If you still think the unibodies are difficult after "100s" of them, an ibook or a 12" powerbook would send you home crying.



Yeah, you really should since there are no known virus for OSX. Most likely a trojan that literally should've taken no more than 5 minutes to remove.

Technically you are incorrect in so far as a virus was created. The author of the code submitted the vulnerability to Apple, and Apple requested that he not release the source code until the vulnerability was patched... which it was. That being said, the term virus is used very loosely in the Windows world to describe Trojans and other malware. So without further delay -> Mac Nasties:

Macs No Longer Immune To Viruses, Experts Say
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/1253727...nger-immune-viruses-experts-say/#.T3DKzdXKLWM

Mac Security Site with listing of Trojans
http://www.securemac.com/

ASthtv05 and AStht_v06
http://www.macworld.com/article/1340...idgconnect.com
http://www.securemac.com/applescript...ojan-horse.php

iSight Trojan
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/23/mac_trojan/

OSX/Hovdy-A
http://www.sophos.com/pressoffice/ne...machovdyA.html

DNSChanger /OSX.RSPlug.A /OSXPuper
http://www.dnschanger.com/

OSX.RSPlug.E (a variant of RSPlug )
http://www.intego.com/news/ism0808.asp

OSX.Lamzev.a
http://www.symantec.com/security_res...111315-1230-99

Worm.OSX.Autostart
http://lowendmac.com/virus/worm.shtml

Leap-A
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=100


So, get off your high horse and stop using semantics as a point to argue.
Nothing is 100% secure, not even the beloved MacOS.

Had no idea you could know that even if the tables were turned and OSX had as much market share as Windows that you would see as many if not more infected Macs than Windows boxes. That's a talent that nobody in the world could know besides you I suppose. You could be making so much more money not being a tech and using your supernatural abilities to see things that may never happen.

Seeing as Mac computers are only 5.2% of the market it would make sense that Viruses are written for Windows boxes. By the same logic, not supernatural abilities, if the tables were turned it is a reasonable assumption that Mac would see more malware. Why write code to rip people off, steal passwords and get CC #'s for 5.2% of the people out there when you could affect vastly more machines with Windows? Sure, Windows Out of the box is insecure and lacking in the security dept... but that doesn't mean that it has to stay that way. The Federal Reserve uses Windows on most all of the end user systems and some servers.. why aren't they being hacked? BECAUSE THEY LOCKED DOWN WINDOWS! Not impossible! I guarantee that big business will not be switching to Apple anything, anytime soon.. hell, Apple doesn't even have a product that is truly Commercial, like the Big Iron that exists today. Business runs on Windows or different flavors of Unix/Linux.

There is a lot of misdirection and misinformation in this thread from both "camps". Apple has a long way to go to have any chance of "taking over" and it's not looking good for them ATM from a business and economic stand-point. Good luck suckers!

 

[gunslinger]

Ok, phaZed decided to write a book and win the debate on the "my post is bigger than yours" rule....lol


I'll try to sift through this mound of garbage and isolate a few points.

Apple's iPad Is Losing Market Share And Profit Margin As Apple Hits All Time High

Uh-huh. Could tell that by first weekend sells. The out number other tabs like 5 to one in sells. People don't even say they want a tablet anymore, they want an iPad. Its the product to be an every area period. Get over it.

Samsung outshines Apple in smartphone shipments, market share

You do understand the iPhone is the best selling phone of all time by a long shot right. And even though Apple only has one Phone and other like Samsung have maybe 200 models, Apple still outsells them. 1q 2011 16.24 million iPhones sold.

Android has was like 8.4 million phones its on. And new one being made literately every min. Yet Apple still has the product to beat and it pisses you off.


As for being well made, the product speaks for itself. All metal, none of this fisher price walmart garbage with a wannabe mac keyboard.


I work on them, they are not hard to work on IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING


You say you get an awful lot of Macs? Really cause I get maybe 1-2 per month. Most of the time simple fix.


The non-removable bat is a non-issue to most people. And a 5 year life? Most people get a new computer sooner than that.

Everyone knows that Apple's OS is based on FreeBSD (LINUX DAMNIT) and that is why it's secure..

Thank you, we agree it has nothing to do with market share. You are not a complete idiot.


Vista was nothing more than Win 7 beta tested on the public for two years and most techs realize this. Where does that 500-$1,200 figure come from? Show me. Lets see the break down on another OEM PC with the specs you like and I'll put together a comparable Mac and we will compare. Deal? Lets see if that $500-1200 figure holds up.


Ok, i do stand corrected. Every Mac I have ever used or seen has had the ability to right click and my mouse has 7-8 buttons and all work. I'm two OSs behind.

and you may be forced to purchase software to meet your needs as many of the "must have apps" are not free.

Do tell. What are some of these "must have" apps you are forced to pay for that have no free alternatives?


Show me a virus that will infect my Mac without me manually installing it.



Oh but wait, you go on to argue its Macs 5.2 market share that make it so safe. A little while ago it was because it was based on Unix. Make up your mind.

There is a lot of misdirection and misinformation in this thread from both "camps". Apple has a long way to go to have any chance of "taking over" and it's not looking good for them

I don't think their goal has ever been to "take over". Just build a high quality reliable product that just works.

 

[phaZed]

Ok, phaZed decided to write a book and win the debate on the "my post is bigger than yours" rule....lol

I'll try to sift through this mound of garbage and isolate a few points.

I didn't intend to even post in this thread because it always turns into a war.. but because everyone else was writing unfounded "mounds of garbage", i decided to make a mound of garbage that has sources. Otherwise, it's useless. It's not a "my post is bigger than yours" issue, it's that you wouldn't believe anything I write if it didn't have the necessary elements. Also, because I was responding to the posts from 3 pages from multiple authors, it is necessary to cite whom I am responding to.

Uh-huh. Could tell that by first weekend sells. The out number other tabs like 5 to one in sells. People don't even say they want a tablet anymore, they want an iPad. Its the product to be an every area period. Get over it.

Hearsay. Cite your sources.

You do understand the iPhone is the best selling phone of all time by a long shot right. And even though Apple only has one Phone and other like Samsung have maybe 200 models, Apple still outsells them. 1q 2011 16.24 million iPhones sold.

Android has was like 8.4 million phones its on. And new one being made literately every min. Yet Apple still has the product to beat and it pisses you off.

I don't know where you are getting you numbers, but in the future you should cite your sources because when I reply, it isn't made up.
iPhone is NOT the best selling phone of all time, by a longshot....

By Model, for a single year of sales, highest selling year shown for each model:
2010
Nokia 5230, 150 million sold

2011
Apple iPhone 4, 28 million sold
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_mobile_phones#2011_Market
----------------------------------------
Product Break-Down for 2011

Apple iPhone 4, 28 million sold
Samsung Galaxy S2, 20 million sold[44]
HTC Thunderbolt, 16 million sold
Apple iPhone 4S, 21 million sold[45]
HTC Evo 4G, 14 million sold
Motorola Droid Bionic, 13 million sold
Samsung Infuse, 9 million sold
HTC Droid Incredible 2, 8.1 million sold
Motorola Droid X2, 6.5 million sold
Samsung Galaxy S, 5 million sold
HTC Sensation, 5 million sold
Samsung Galaxy Nexus, 4.4 million sold
LG Revolution, 3.1 million sold
Motorola Droid RAZR, 2.8 million sold
HTC Inspire, 2.4 million sold
Apple iPhone 3GS, 2 million sold

Apple Products = 51 Million
Android Products = 109.3 Million
So, I don't understand where you are getting the 16.24M iOS and 8.4M numbers, perhaps you could cite your sources?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_mobile_phones#2011_Market
---------------------------------------
2011 Market
Nokia 422 million sold[38][39]
Samsung 315 million sold[40]
Apple 89 million sold[41]
LG 85 million sold
ZTE 58 million sold[42][43]
RIM 51 million sold
HTC 43 million sold
Motorola 41 million sold
Huawei 41 million sold
Sony Ericsson(ソニー・エリクソン) 34 million sold
Sharp(シャープ) ? million sold
Fujitsu(富士通) ? million sold
Panasonic(パナソニック) ? million sold
NEC Casio(NECカシオ) ? million sold
Pantech ? million sold
Kyocera(京セラ) ? million sold
Sanyo(三洋) ? million sold
Others 600 million sold
-------------------------------------

So how about that statement now?

...and other like Samsung have maybe 200 models, Apple still outsells them...

Seems Nokia and Samsung both outsold Apple in 2011, what's up?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_mobile_phones#2011_Market

As for being well made, the product speaks for itself. All metal, none of this fisher price walmart garbage with a wannabe mac keyboard.

No argument there. Apple makes a sturdy, well-built product. You took this out of context, I was referring to the OS, not the products construction. This would be apparent if you read eric76's post that I was responding to. Now, I don't think it is fair to compare a Walmart $299 special to a Mac. How about we compare to a higher caliber machine? There are plenty of very well built systems, made of metal if you prefer. Apple is not the only capable manufacturer.
Apple offers NOTHING that you can't get in a competing device when speaking of hardware and technical capabilities. As I posted earlier:

A) Macs are Intel now, so as far as hardware goes.. it's no better than any other laptop of the same spec. Foxconn is making the boards for Apple... as well as many other manufacturers. So to claim that Apple is "better" in this respect is ignorant. This argument may have held true when IBM was making the processor, but not now.

I work on them, they are not hard to work on IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING

Your fairly adamant about this, eh? OK, I agree, they are not particularly "hard" to work on. I don't have a problem taking them apart myself, it just has a lot more screws and procedure than any other type of laptop I have worked on. That doesn't make it hard, but it does make it more difficult. Bet you lunch that I can change a hard drive in an Inspiron 1545 faster than I can a Macbook... would you disagree? It would kill Apple to include an access cover on the bottom for the various parts, my god, you wouldn't have to take your stuff to the Genius Bar anymore!

You say you get an awful lot of Macs? Really cause I get maybe 1-2 per month. Most of the time simple fix.

I get 2-3 per month. Usually a bad PSU, Hard Drive, or Mainboard.. in that order. You were claiming that "they[macs] function perfectly", I'm claiming they do not.
Although this analysis will be flawed(Not very scientific), it can still be useful:
Last month I had 100 (Really!) customers, 3 of which were macs. If Apple computers are 5.2% of the market, I am getting more than a 3% share of Mac repairs. Think about that, I genuinely thought that was interesting.. not talking Sh** or anything. Point is, a Mac is nothing more than a PC dressed up, it's the OS that is special, so stop acting like Apple is above it all. Same goes for the other camp

The non-removable bat is a non-issue to most people. And a 5 year life? Most people get a new computer sooner than that.

Maybe your right, maybe not. I showed you the sales figures above.. who knows how much of an issue the battery is. For me it is very important. For all we know, Androids are selling more because they have removable batteries? Not an argument, just sayin.
No, I didn't say a 5 year life, I said a 2-5 year life. That's depending on usage, storage, and environment. Most batteries have DIMINISHED their capacity to 0 within 2-3 years, but a 50% reduction in battery capacity can be seen in as soon as a year to a year and a half..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery

Charging forms deposits inside the electrolyte that inhibit ion transport. Over time, the cell's capacity diminishes. The increase in internal resistance reduces the cell's ability to deliver current. This problem is more pronounced in high-current applications. The decrease means that older batteries do not charge as much as new ones (charging time required decreases proportionally).
High charge levels and elevated temperatures (whether from charging or ambient air) hasten capacity loss.[48] Charging heat is caused by the carbon anode (typically replaced with lithium titanate which drastically reduces damage from charging, including expansion and other factors).[49]

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/everyday-tech/lithium-ion-battery2.htm

Lithium-ion batteries age. They only last two to three years, even if they are sitting on a shelf unused. So do not "avoid using" the battery with the thought that the battery pack will last five years. It won't. Also, if you are buying a new battery pack, you want to make sure it really is new. If it has been sitting on a shelf in the store for a year, it won't last very long. Manufacturing dates are important.

So, like I said, no thanks. Not for me. I use my devices for a considerably longer period of time and do not feel the necessity to upgrade, nor spend extra money on new devices. By purchasing a non-replaceable battery device, you do spend more money that you would by simply replacing a battery in a capable device. This is Apple's plan, the perpetual upgrade cycle. I don't agree with this business model and I refuse to accept it. It is foolish, as a consumer, to submit to essentially "leasing" the device.

Vista was nothing more than Win 7 beta tested on the public for two years and most techs realize this. Where does that 500-$1,200 figure come from? Show me. Lets see the break down on another OEM PC with the specs you like and I'll put together a comparable Mac and we will compare. Deal? Lets see if that $500-1200 figure holds up.

No problem, I can do it all for you:
How about

Macbook Pro 15" 2.4GHz (MD322LL/A) - Best pro model in 15" right now - Starting at $1799
http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html
1440x900 LED
2.2GHz quad-core
Intel Core i7
4GB 1333MHz
500GB 5400-rpm1
Intel HD Graphics 3000
AMD Radeon HD 6750M with 512MB GDDR5
Built-in battery (7 hours)

Compared to:

Asus - G53SX-DH71 15.6" LED Notebook - $1379.99
1920 x 1080 Full HD Display
i7 2.2GHz quad core
12 GB RAM
750 GB HDD
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560M 2GB Graphics Card
2-3 hour battery life (Normal battery, extended 6-8 hour battery available)
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus+-+...lack/4070575.p?id=1218454383768&skuId=4070575

OR

Lenovo - IdeaPad 1024A3U - $728.20
1366 x 768 WXGA Display
2.2GHz i7 Quad core
4 GB RAM
500 GB HDD
Intel HD 3000 Graphics Card
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Lenovo+...Gray/5059503.p?id=1218604310544&skuId=5059503

Gee, I get A LOT MORE system for about $420 less with the Asus.
I can get almost the exact same system in the Lenovo for $1070 less than the apple!

Let's try it again with a Macbook Air:

13-inch 256BSSD model - best air model in 13" right now - $1599
1440 x 900
1.7GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 processor
4GB memory
256GB flash storage1
Intel HD Graphics 3000

Compared to:

Asus - 13.3" Zenbook Ultrabook Laptop - $1,399.99
1600 x 900
1.8 core i7 with HT
4GB memory
256GB SSD
Intel HD Graphics 3000
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus+-+...lver/3792686.p?id=1218432147837&skuId=3792686

OR

Acer - 13.3" Aspire S3 Ultrabook Laptop - $1049.99
1366 x 768
1.6GHz i5
4GB memory
240GB SSD
Intel HD Graphics 3000
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Acer+-+...lver/4171689.p?id=1218459168472&skuId=4171689

So again, for $200 less than the Apple I can get the Asus which is a better machine in all aspects of the hardware. The Acer is $450 less than the Apple and is *almost* comparable.
Shall we keep going? Where did you think this was going to go? Looks like my $500-$1200 guesstimate figure isn't too far off.

Do tell. What are some of these "must have" apps you are forced to pay for that have no free alternatives?

Why is it that you can't do some of the leg work by yourself? You didn't know that Operating Systems (All of them) have compatibility issues?
Google man, please.

OK, how about Quicken 2007, MS Office 2004, or Adobe Creative Suite 2? Some people and businesses find those wares indispensable and expensive to upgrade in some cases.
http://www.everymac.com/mac-answers...tible-applications-quicken-office-eudora.html

Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard issues:
http://snowleopard.wikidot.com/
http://guides.macrumors.com/List:Applications_Not_Compatible_with_Leopard
http://www.macintouch.com/specialreports/snowleopard/slcompat.html

Mac OS X 10.7 Lion issues:
http://www.everymac.com/mac-answers...tible-applications-quicken-office-eudora.html
Nikon camera tools no longer working:
http://nikonrumors.com/2011/07/21/nikon-software-compatibility-with-mac-os-x-version-lion-10-7.aspx/
http://roaringapps.com/apps:table

Show me a virus that will infect my Mac without me manually installing it.

For crying out loud, I already posted links in the previous post. Fine. These people from SOPHOS say this OSX/Leap-A is a Virus. Not a Trojan Horse, a VIRUS. You don't install it either. BAM! There ya go. With a link and all.
http://www.sophos.com/en-us/press-office/press-releases/2006/02/macosxleap.aspx

Some members of the Apple Macintosh community have claimed that OSX/Leap-A is a Trojan horse, and not a virus or worm, because it requires user interaction (the user has to receive a file via iChat, and manually choose to open and run the file contained inside).

However, this is not the definition of a Trojan horse.

A Trojan horse is a seemingly legitimate computer program that has been intentionally designed to disrupt and damage computer activity. Importantly, Trojan horses do not replicate or have any mechanism of spreading themselves. They have to be deliberately planted on a website, or accidentally shared with another user, or spammed out to email addresses. There is nothing inside a Trojan's code to distribute themselves further to other victims.

Trojan horses do not contain any code to distribute or spread themselves, viruses and worms do.

OSX/Leap-A is programmed to use the iChat instant messaging system to spread itself to other users. As such, it is comparable to an email or instant messaging worm on the Windows platform. Worms are a sub category of the group of malware known as viruses.

Therefore, it is correct to call OSX/Leap-A a virus or a worm. It is not correct to call OSX/Leap-A a Trojan horse.

Thank you, we agree it has nothing to do with market share. You are not a complete idiot.

Oh but wait, you go on to argue its Macs 5.2 market share that make it so safe. A little while ago it was because it was based on Unix. Make up your mind.

Well surely your not this obtuse in your thinking? Both issues play a part, it's not solely one or the other. Market share AND FreeBSD are both responsible, and so is Apple's closed-code.. and probably some other factors that I we don't know about. Let's put things in perspective for a second though:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_malware
It can be fairly easily argued that many of the vulnerabilities that exist for Linux/Unix should easily exist for Apple's OS, being that Apple OS is Unix. So why are their more nasties for Linux? Well, that's easy. Market share. Linux has a larger market share(No comparison) than Apple, 63.9% of all servers online are Linux/Unix, 36.1% are Windows. 95% of the Top 1000 companies use IBM (Linux). So of course hackers and other entities want to crack/infect/spy on web servers.. right? Apple just isn't much of a target. I'm sorry, but this should not be a hard concept to grasp.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems