Reliable/Safe Direct Download Source(s) for the Windows 10/11 ISO files

[mikeroq]

I don't know if this has changed, but keep in mind a USB or ISO made with the Media Creation Tool does not have an install.wim file but an install.esd file which is compressed. So if you were planning to customize an image or import the wim file you can't without first installing it and capturing the image after Sysprep etc. But if you download the plain ISO, without using the app, it uses standard wim files.

Yes the MCT is ESD format while direct download is WIM format. Also you can convert a ESD to a WIM with DISM,

 

[MudRock]

And, effectively, no matter how they package it, Windows 11 is just a gussied up next release under Windows As A Service. This is probably the least changed major release of Windows unless Microsoft is keeping something very much under wraps.

Yep. And amazing, they still bodged the launch. Lackluster performance, awful gaming experience. Its like they want this to be the Windows ME/Vista/Win8 so Win12 is THE BOMB.

I mean, the dev did say it in an official capacity at an IGNITE conference. Microsoft also did not refute the claim, and to the contrary when they were asked by media. They do allude to "Branding" in that discussion, but the statement Microsoft made when they were asked by the media is now false, because devices at the time they made that statement have no upgrade path outside of Windows 10 now in any official capacity.

Why Microsoft is calling Windows 10 'the last version of Windows'

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I always joked with people that it was a load of horse droppings. I was right.

 

[Sky-Knight]

I always joked with people that it was a load of horse droppings. I was right.

That's a bit much to be honest, I view the hardware reqs of Win11 and the time table MS has provided to be a quite reasonable way to shed ancient hardware that desperately needs replacing.

They cannot support everything forever... heck even Debian Linux is shedding support for older CPUs as I type this. Now, admittedly the OSS community sheds support far LATER, but it's hard to find fault with a decision to get rid of all CPUs older than 2017 in 2025. At that time the oldest supported CPU will be 8 years old.

Windows 10 requires at least a 1st gen iSeries to be supported from Intel. Those CPUs are 16 right now, they'll be 19 at Win10's drop dead date.

This is a solid move to get better tech under everyone's desk, it's a great way for all of us here to make money swapping machines while also improving customer experience across the board. I'll never understand the fear and apprehension associated with this move. Computers have NEVER lasted two decades. But in the last two decades we've had little reason to upgrade, now we do. And while Windows 11 is currently Windows 10 with some UI tweaks, that will change more and more over time.

And the final nail? In 2024 8th gens will be everywhere and cheap on the refurb market. You'll be able to sell a $400 refurb to anyone that needs it, and have the power savings vs the junker they have now ALONE pay for the darned thing in less than two years.

 

[MudRock]

That's a bit much to be honest, I view the hardware reqs of Win11 and the time table MS has provided to be a quite reasonable way to shed ancient hardware that desperately needs replacing.

They cannot support everything forever... heck even Debian Linux is shedding support for older CPUs as I type this. Now, admittedly the OSS community sheds support far LATER, but it's hard to find fault with a decision to get rid of all CPUs older than 2017 in 2025. At that time the oldest supported CPU will be 8 years old.

Windows 10 requires at least a 1st gen iSeries to be supported from Intel. Those CPUs are 16 right now, they'll be 19 at Win10's drop dead date.

This is a solid move to get better tech under everyone's desk, it's a great way for all of us here to make money swapping machines while also improving customer experience across the board. I'll never understand the fear and apprehension associated with this move. Computers have NEVER lasted two decades. But in the last two decades we've had little reason to upgrade, now we do. And while Windows 11 is currently Windows 10 with some UI tweaks, that will change more and more over time.

And the final nail? In 2024 8th gens will be everywhere and cheap on the refurb market. You'll be able to sell a $400 refurb to anyone that needs it, and have the power savings vs the junker they have now ALONE pay for the darned thing in less than two years.

Don't get me wrong; We need to push it along. And if the TPU requirement is legitimately needed for security, I'm all for it.

But explain to people who just bought computers 1 year ago that "Sorry, you're computer is on a ticking time bomb now.", even though it was an i7-7700HQ, they bought it because it was a bit cheaper, or people who have still very valid first-gen Ryzen anything, that they're now looking at 2 1/2 years left on their system. I was never a fan of 7th gen intel (4th gen was last decent until now), but Ryzen 1st gen is and will be quite capable of many years of service, as is an i7-7700k/i9-7900X. And yes, I've seen people with these. Lenovo/etc still actively sold 7th gen even mid last year, new.

I, on the flip side, also don't believe they should compromise any security created by TPM2.0 to cater to those with older CPUs/Motherboards. I just wonder how much of this is just marketing fluff to sell more systems.

 

[Diggs]

You'll be able to sell a $400 refurb to anyone that needs it,

That's then. What to do now? 8th gen and newer are expensive (comparatively) and to sell someone an older refurbished machine that is obsolete in a couple of years is not responsible on our end.

 

[britechguy]

I always joked with people that it was a load of horse droppings. I was right.

I always have said that, if there comes a time where an actual "last version of Windows" (and it would be under the Windows As A Service paradigm, so it would still receive updates for as long as Microsoft so chose) to appear it will just be called "Windows."

The entire concept of Windows numbered releases is largely an an anachronism. There will always be transitions where "old hardware" can no longer run "new Windows" no matter what.

But the public mind is so tied to "numbered versions" of almost anything, or named versions (or a combination of both), that I doubt that convention is ever going away.

People don't really look, with their own eyes, at what's actually new. Had what is now Windows 11 been released as Windows 10, Version 21H2, as was the original intent, it wouldn't have changed a blessed thing about what it actually is. To me, that "magic number change" is not what determines whether some major revisions have occurred or not.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@MudRock That's sadly not a new problem, every time there's a paradigm shift there are those just on the other side of it. Those machines will still get their 5 year service life, expecting more isn't ever rational. It's nice when we get more of course, but desktops / laptops are supposed to be on a 4-5 year replacement cycle.

@Diggs The client either buys a time bomb, or the client pays more for a machine that isn't. It's not a difficult situation to be frank. If they cannot afford new, they buy used, if they cannot afford used they get left with scrap. All we can do is provide options, and service them.

The refurb market is positively flooded with really cheap older than 7th gen platforms right now. So it's not like there's a loss paying pennies for a machine that's only going to live for 3 years. Just do the math on the TCO!

 

[britechguy]

but desktops / laptops are supposed to be on a 4-5 year replacement cycle.

Not arguing this point, but am saying that going forward that may not necessarily continue to be the case. For most of my career this replacement cycle had nothing to do with the hardware breaking down/wearing out, but that software just kept using up more and more resources at the RAM and CPU levels on very rapid cycles.

That's becoming less and less the case for the vast majority of commonly used software, including suites like MS-Office. I haven't had a client who's "maxxed out" their processing power or RAM for some years now, and that's on mid-grade machines and up. Many don't max these out on "junk machines" if all they're doing is emailing, web browsing, word processing, and social media.

Ignoring Spectre and Meltdown (which I understand cannot be, in reality) most of the earlier generation Intel processors would be just fine and dandy for a very great many who own machines that have them. We really can't expect (or at least I don't think we can) hardware-level exploits like these to come along very often if history is taken as any indicator.

It's likely that the processing power of modern processors will be "way more than adequate" for a huge proportion of Windows users for years and years to come if something doesn't come along that's a really tectonic shift in computing for day-to-day life. I'm just not seeing anything that suggests this is coming in the spaces that most of us here work in.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@britechguy I agree, even with the performance limitations of the mitigation patches pretty much any CPU is good enough.

Sadly, in the age of crypto performance is no longer the driver. As you say the hardware outstripped the needs of the average user long ago, which is why we all collectively got into the habit of buying machines so infrequently.

But if we want that lack of frequency to be normal, we're going to pay for it, be that in reduced functionality, or increased prices... objectively more than likely both.

Intel only supports CPUs for so long. AMD supports them FAR LESS! Everything has a lifespan, and one cannot use an Internet connected computer beyond the period its makers support it safely. This has always been true, and will always be true.

 

[britechguy]

@Sky-Knight: But hardware functional lifespan has the potential (not the actuality) to be pretty darned near perpetual these days.

Heck, I can still fire up machines that came with Windows XP or Windows 7 and as far as "being adequate for what an many end users probably wants to do" they'd be just fine (for accomplishing those tasks, I'm not saying they should do this, there are many other contraindications).

And I I expect that without hardware level compromises, many can and will keep using current computers long after they're out of support. According to HP the machine I'm typing from is "out of support" as far as getting replacement parts from them goes. But they're still available, were I to need same, from the aftermarket and Windows 10 and all of the drivers for the various bits and bobs on the machine are still being regularly updated. I think I've had this machine since November 2017, and it was a HP refurbished model even then, but still a very recent one. For what I use it for, I don't think it will be "gone" by November 2022 and likely not for at least several years afterward. I'll probably be using it until Windows 10 sunsets in 2025. Even then, although it wouldn't be a daily driver, I might convert it to a Linux machine. The hardware itself can keep going and going and going and going . . .

 

[fincoder]

in 2025 ... the oldest supported CPU will be 8 years old.

I think 10 years would have been much fairer. It's common for residential and DIY enthusiasts to be running hardware of that age, and SSD upgrades allow those older computers to run Win 10 well enough.

They should extend Win 10's EOL by another 2 years, or allow Win 11 upgrades on say 6th gen and higher. It would only extend the life of less-secure hardware by a couple of years.

We know there's no technical reason why Win 11 can't run on older hardware, plenty of people are doing it. In fact a fresh install of Win 11 bypasses the CPU generation requirement, and only enforces TPM 1.2, as long as UEFI/GPT and secure boot are enabled. By the time of Win 10 EOL, we'll likely be more confident that computers meeting Win 11's base requirements (i.e. 1GHz or higher 64-bit CPU) can be kept going with a clean install of Win 11.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@fincoder No, we do NOT KNOW that it's OK to run Win11 on old hardware. That's a false assertion. We know that Win11 release works fine on old hardware, but it says nothing of future planned features coming with the annual update cadence.

So which way do you want it? Do you want a known drop dead date? Or do you want to find out after your machine hasn't had a feature update in two years, is no longer eligible for security updates, and you're also unable to make the feature leap because something is missing?

As for the extra two years, it's not Microsoft's fault that Intel and AMD both screwed up microcode so badly. All Microsoft can do is target hardware they know works.

@britechguy True enough, but this is about support. And I'm not about to support John Q. Public on Linux. For the same reason the game developers don't support Linux... huge liability, huge support cost, no revenue to back it up. The market simply isn't there.

 

[britechguy]

True enough, but this is about support. And I'm not about to support John Q. Public on Linux.

Nor am I, which really wasn't the point I'm trying to make. For those of us in the residential market we already support a lot of John and Jane Q. Publics using hardware that is long out-of-support by its OEM but still functions just fine and continues to get driver updates, sometimes from the computer OEM, others from the component OEM.

Or, put more simply: There's out of support and there's really out of support. If the hardware in question still runs an in-support OS that I'm willing to work with, I don't really care whether said hardware is still classed as "in support" by its OEM.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@britechguy Oh, I see what you're saying. Yes, if Microsoft was to continue supporting Win10 for another couple of years I'm not going to complain. But once they drop it, it's gone... I can't replace that scale of investment on my own.

 

[fincoder]

No, we do NOT KNOW that it's OK to run Win11 on old hardware. That's a false assertion.

I wasn't asserting, I was opining, hence my use of the words "likely" and "more confident". I was merely saying that by 2025 we'll have a good idea whether we should be upgrading some select customers to Windows 11, computers that won't allow an in-place upgrade but will activate after a fresh install.

 

[Porthos]

I don't know if this has changed, but keep in mind a USB or ISO made with the Media Creation Tool does not have an install.wim file but an install.esd file which is compressed. So if you were planning to customize an image or import the wim file you can't without first installing it and capturing the image after Sysprep etc. But if you download the plain ISO, without using the app, it uses standard wim files.

This times 100

 

[Porthos]

And the final nail? In 2024 8th gens will be everywhere and cheap on the refurb market.

That's then. What to do now? 8th gen and newer are expensive (comparatively)

If they really need a replacement computer I will tell the user the minimum specs so they can choose a new one. I something CPU, 8-16 gig ram and a SSD and let the client go from there and set it up for them when they get it.