Your tools for website development

[ICEinLAVA]

To me hand coding is pointless, except for that you really get to learn what the code is doing other than that its a waste of time.

I use dreamweaver and fireworks and have for many many years.

I haven't used dreamweaver before, but i have hand coded webpages that look the same but have a fraction of the code. the benefit of this would allow pages to load faster. but this would really only benefit clients on a dial up connection.

 

[tminer]

I haven't used dreamweaver before, but i have hand coded webpages that look the same but have a fraction of the code. the benefit of this would allow pages to load faster. but this would really only benefit clients on a dial up connection.

If you havent used it then how would you know how much extra code is added? The fact of the matter is that there may be a TINY bit more code that the server processes for dynamic sites, but what is spit ouit to the end user (to download) is no more than if you hand coded it. So you saying hand coding is only a fraction of the code by dreamweaver is totally inaccurate. View the source code on my website and you will see there is not alot of extra (bloat). Some of my sites have been up for over 8 years, back when alot of the sites customers where still on dial-up, we retained customers because our site was fast for them.

 

[JosephLeo]

I don't remember Dreamweaver adding any code whatsoever. All it does for me is close my tags while typing which is very helpful and saves precious time when making a website.

 

[tminer]

Yep, your correct, it does save alot of time by closing tags, it also helps eliminate errors, that would be harder to figure out hand coding.

It does add some extra when calling recordsets and stuff for dynamic pages, but the ease outweighs the small amount of fluff thats added.

Its funny because some of the earlier posts had reference to adding different code for ie6, ie7, mozilla, etc, this isnt needed if you use dreamweaver cause its almost all compatible.

 

[TriadPCSolutions]

well since I'm doing the insanity of trying to start a comp business with nearly no money to stand on, I've been messing around with amaya, which is free, open source and developed by w3c. Haven't done anything too in depth with it as I am very early on in the development stages but so far it has impressed me.

Anyone have any experience using this for more in depth stuff? Curious if I'll be able to pull off a good site with just this or if I'm going to have to break down and buy something soon.

 

[Reset]

Its funny because some of the earlier posts had reference to adding different code for ie6, ie7, mozilla, etc, this isnt needed if you use dreamweaver cause its almost all compatible.

Are you kidding me ??? Lets say your using css 2 as framework for you web site you have to use custom code for each web browser ie7 ie8 and even FireFox as its doesn't always work in Dreamweaver. I know because i do it everyday for clients.


Just one question for you guys what are you going to do when they make html 5 and css3 the standard which you can already use buts it not the current standard. Dreamweaver CS4 isn’t html 5 or css3 compliant.

 

[JosephLeo]

Are you kidding me ??? Lets say your using css 2 as framework for you web site you have to use custom code for each web browser ie7 ie8 and even FireFox as its doesn't always work in Dreamweaver. I know because i do it everyday for clients.


Just one question for you guys what are you going to do when they make html 5 and css3 the standard which you can already use buts it not the current standard. Dreamweaver CS4 isn’t html 5 or css3 compliant.

I said earlier that I have two final stylesheets for my pages. a master style.css, and then an ie.css in a conditional comment. If by any odd reason I need to target a specific version of IE I'd also make an IE8, IE7, IE6, IE5_5, IEelse.css file each with their own hack to hide from IE Mac as well.

Also- I do use some CSS3 properties already but I make sure that I use only the ones that degrade gracefully like rounded corners. HTML5 is currently unsupported entirely by the IE lineup and Firefox 2. And to get it working properly to it's full extent in any browser you'll have to use html5shiv as well as custom javascript object replacement techniques for the video, audio and canvas tag. Not to mention the CSS3 and HTML5 spec isn't even completed so there is no point to use something that's half finished because for all we know <nav> might be changed to <navigation> or removed entirely by the time it's done. No point in HTML5 in a production level website yet.

Also, when the time comes to use (x)HTML5/HTML5/CSS3 I will upgrade myself to CS6....HTML5 and CSS3 probably wont be ready even during the entire course of CS5's lifespan. Give it 4 years and you'll see me using HTML5. If I'm making money making websites then a $600 upgrade isn't exactly a lot of money.

 

[tminer]

All i can tell you is that i dont have to use any html 5 or css3, i can do anything I need to do with the current mainstream versions. Basically like Leo was saying, when the standards become more popular and supported, I will buy dreamweaver cs5 (which im sure will support these new standards) and go from there. Its evolution!

 

[ICEinLAVA]

If you havent used it then how would you know how much extra code is added? The fact of the matter is that there may be a TINY bit more code that the server processes for dynamic sites, but what is spit ouit to the end user (to download) is no more than if you hand coded it. So you saying hand coding is only a fraction of the code by dreamweaver is totally inaccurate. View the source code on my website and you will see there is not alot of extra (bloat). Some of my sites have been up for over 8 years, back when alot of the sites customers where still on dial-up, we retained customers because our site was fast for them.

I didn't know that my warning stating i don't know dreamweaver would cause you to crap barb wire... I group Dreamweaver together with GoLive, Frontpage and all the other WYSIWYG editors. i have worked with other WYSIWYG editors, just not Dreamweaver and my experience with the other editors has been bloated code and non uniformal viewing cross browser. Granted i haven't tried using a WYSiWYG editor in over ten years, i should hope they have the issues worked out. I remember people hacking websites with the required frontpage extensions some companies were using.

but since you requested your site reviewed.

78 non-break spaces all together instead of using a table tag with columns.

13 comment tags, i really only found 2 of them as possible justifiable.

Site map is unformated.

Nacbro link is dead. site page is a 404 error

plus if your site has been up for 8 years with 9 of the pages showing the same "Info coming soon!". just take the page down or hide that section. Is the info coming soon now or is it coming soon 8 years ago.

 

[ZenMike]

I think many of us are looking at this from different perspectives without acknowledging that all these tools are for (can be used for) different purposes. Also those who come to web development from a design background will have very different needs and objectives than those coming from a programming background.

Dreamweaver does have some similarities to GoLive and FrontPage, but it also has a fairly capable code editor with auto-complete, syntax checking, and code coloring. I also think it's much better as a WYSIWYG editor if that's what you're into.

There's also been some overlap in this thread to content management systems (CMS) like Joomla, which is a whole seperate category of tools.

So here's my breakdown:

CMS Systems
Joomla - very nice, extenable (CMS). Requires some training for the end-user and basic knowledge of PHP for template setup. Creating modules and plugins requires more extensive knowledge of PHP.
Drupal - A very robust CMS, but a little more complex to develop for than Joomla.
WordPress - A purpose-specific (blogging). Very easy to use and extend. Lots of support. Can be used for non-blog sites, but blogging is where it really shines.

WYSIWYG Editors
DreamWeaver - IMO there's not much else in this category worth looking at, but I've never tried really hard.

Code Editors
NotePad, TextPad, NotePad++ - pure text editors. No native FTP support, though some can be extended. Only for purists.
NetBeans PHP IDE - nice code helpers (auto-complete, coloring, syntax checking...). Nice UI. Fairly easy to use and FREE!
DreamWeaver - Excellent code helpers and the best native FTP client of any IDE I've ever used.
Visual Studio - Proprietary and expensive, but if you're doing .NET developement it's part of the deal. There is an Express edition for 2008.

There are many others, free and paid, and I am sure many will have very strong opinions, but FWIW this is my list.

 

[BryanLee]

I use Dreamweaver and Photoshop. That's about it.

 

[wimwauters]

I REALLY need to learn how to code html and css. I've been trying to do stuff just using tools and it does not cut it.

I don't know why the developers cannot make a WYSIWYG editor that really works and makes placing elements etc simple but they apparently cannot so I spend way too long messing around trying to get things arranged and I'm never 100% happy. Thing is, with my MCSE study, 2 jobs, 2 kids etc...I just don't get the time.

How about picking up a free website template somewhere and then working on it with Kompozer (used to be called nVu) ?

Kompozer also has a built-in FTP client and text editor.

Although nothing beats Filezilla for uploading websites.

That's how I did my unisoftdesign.co.uk website

 

[MobileTechie]

Well I built my current website with no coding using Joomla and it's doing it's job OK. It's just that I think when you're trying to get exactly what you want some coding seems to be necessary.