Windows 11 - the closed Windows 7/8 key 'loop hole'

[LordX]

My brother recently built himself a new desktop (after almost 15 years!!).

He used an old retail Windows 7 key he bought for the old dismantled system to install Windows 10 with. Worked no problem.

However, his new system 'auto' upgraded to Windows 11, and even though it installed THROUGH windows update, it would not activate.

I read that Windows 11 activation servers recently stopped working with old Windows 7/8 keys, and I think that this may be an after effect.

What are his options? Right now he just reinstalled 10, which immediately activated with the digital license. He is not signed in with a MS account, just using a local user account.

Would signing in with a MS account on Windows 10 first, THEN upgrading to 11 solve this activation issue? Or sign in, link the computer, then fresh install of 11?

What an annoying thing to stop allowing so far into the life of Windows 10/11...

 

[britechguy]

My guess is that you are going to be the person who blazes the trail on determining what will work in this case.

I've never seen any Windows 10 to Windows 11 in-place upgrade fail, though I saw many Windows 7/8/8.1 in-place upgrades fail on the initial attempt. Every time I did an SFC/DISM before trying again, the second attempts worked.

A licensed and activated Windows 10 instance that's running on hardware that actually supports the Windows 11 hardware requirements should upgrade successfully. I suspect this was a "burp" and I would just try again (after, of course, having made a full system image backup to restore from should that be needed).

 

[Phillip Manning]

I have had the first windows 7 to 10 upgrade fail to activate this week

 

[sapphirescales]

Yeah this makes sense. NO computer that came with Windows 7/8 is going to be officially compatible with Windows 11, not even a custom build with a 6th gen processor (the newest processor that's compatible with Windows 7). OEM's stopped offering Windows 7 past 2nd gen, I think. Maybe even before that.

The only scenario where you have a Windows 7/8 key and want to use it to activate Windows 11 (even if you upgrade to 10, then 11 like you did) is if you're improperly licensing computers. For example, let's say you built a 8th gen processor computer a few years back and then used an old Windows 7 license you have on an old computer you have lying around to activate Windows 10. That's an extremely unlikely scenario though.

I don't know why Microsoft would patch it except as another way to prevent people from using the registry hacks to install Windows 11 on unsupported computers. There are tons of regular people on YouTube claiming to have installed Windows 11 on old computers they have. Now if they try to do that it won't work unless they're upgrading/installing Windows 11 on a computer from 2015 or newer (when Windows 10 came out).

I do NOT support Microsoft's ridiculous requirements for Windows 11 but at the same time CPUs have gotten so much faster these last few years that even 8th gen processors are super slow by comparison. An 8th gen i7 is slower than a 13th gen i3 nowadays and also most of AMD's offerings too. If you have anything older than that, you really shouldn't keep using it for modern tasks beyond another 2 years (when Windows 10 loses support). A few processors like the i7-7800X are still pretty good and ARE officially compatible with Windows 11. I think one of Microsoft's reasons for the strict requirements is they no longer want Windows to have the reputation of being slow/slowing down. Most computers that have an 8th gen or newer CPU are going to also have an SSD. Not all, but most. And 8th gen CPUs have at least a minimum level of performance.

I just installed Windows 11 on a 5th gen i5 laptop for a client at his request (he knows it isn't supported) and the thing was noticeably slow even with a brand new SSD. He put in his calendar to call me in a year so I can remote in and manually install the latest build. I was surprised by how slow it seemed. Just to rule out a weird hardware issue I re-imaged the drive with a fresh install of Windows 10 instead and it was noticeably faster. Beyond doing more hacky stuff like installing Tiny11 there wasn't much I could do. It already had maxed out RAM, a fresh install of Windows 11, and a brand new SSD. The CPU just wasn't fast enough.

But if you compare the Passmark scores:

i5-5200U = 2,502
i5-1235U = 13,613

So a 12th gen i5 laptop CPU is 5.44x faster. I'm sure the 14th gen laptop CPUs are going to be even more powerful.

All this being said, Microsoft should work on streamlining Windows and removing bloat, not adding more. It's laziness and cheapness that holds Windows back. Developers have gotten into the habit of writing crappy bloated code that isn't optimized because they rely on the brute power of computers to compensate for their laziness and/or ineptitude. Windows 11 should be able to run on less powerful hardware than Windows Vista by now but instead it runs like garbage on anything that's not an 8th gen or newer processor. I can't put 100% of the blame on developers though since the companies they work for just want to push out a product as fast as possible because they know if there are any bugs they can just patch it later. Online software updates have ruined software.

I guess my point is, you really shouldn't be running Windows 11 on unsupported hardware anymore. It's getting more bloated than it was when it first came out. I noticed ZERO difference in performance between Windows 11 21H2 and Windows 10. 22H2 was a bit slower. 23H2 runs like dog crap on unsupported hardware. Maybe it's the Copilot AI garbage they've got in there now, I don't know. I'll have to run more tests. 23H2 just came out so I don't have a lot of experience with it yet.

 

[britechguy]

I have had the first windows 7 to 10 upgrade fail to activate this week

For complete clarity: Are we talking about an in-place upgrade from 7 to 10, or an attempt to clean install Windows 10 using a Windows 7 key to activate?

I have not, as yet, heard of the in-place upgrade option failing. There have been reports of trying to use Win7/8/8.1 product keys to activate Windows 10 failing.

It's critical that the exact method being used is clear.

 

[britechguy]

I guess my point is, you really shouldn't be running Windows 11 on unsupported hardware anymore.

But who has proposed that? From the original post: "My brother recently built himself a new desktop (after almost 15 years!!).

He used an old retail Windows 7 key he bought for the old dismantled system to install Windows 10 with. Worked no problem.

However, his new system 'auto' upgraded to Windows 11, and even though it installed THROUGH windows update, it would not activate."

So we're dealing with brand new hardware here, as I'm not willing to presume anyone's building themselves a "new desktop" after 15 years out of ancient components.

A Windows 7 retail key apparently worked to install Windows 10 and license/activate it. But the Windows 10 to Windows 11 in-place upgrade appears to have failed to activate the Windows 11 license.

I still suspect this is a "burp," and those do happen, and that a subsequent attempt to do an in-place upgrade will likely succeed. I've had many in-place upgrades during the Win7/8/8.1 to 10 era "burp" on their first tries, but doing a bit of tidying up on the existing Windows instance (SFC/DISM), and trying again has worked. But I'll also add that I generally used the Windows ISO method of doing that in-place upgrade rather than going through Windows Update or going to the Windows download page and using the update assistant. I also generally choose not to download updates now when using the ISO method, so that any "post-ISO" updates will simply be applied by Windows Update after the in-place upgrade initially completes.

 

[sapphirescales]

@britechguy Well it's a delicate situation with a retail copy of Windows 7. I don't think Microsoft should deny upgrades from a Windows 10 install that was licensed with a retail Windows 7 key but honestly so few people buy retail Windows licenses (and fewer still would still have the key after 10+ years) that I'm sure it's an afterthought for Microsoft. It's just easier to block all Windows 7 licenses from activating Windows 11 than to try to differentiate between OEM and retail. I'm not even sure if upgrading from Windows 7 retail to Windows 10 converts it into a Windows 10 retail license or just a digital entitlement. My gut tells me it just converts it into a Windows 10 digital entitlement, which is tied to the hardware ID of the motherboard, the same way upgrading an OEM copy of Windows 7 would. In other words, Microsoft might not be ABLE to differentiate between retail copies of Windows 7 that have been upgraded and OEM copies of Windows 7 that have been upgraded.

It would be interesting to see if @LordX has tried hitting the "Change Product Key" option and manually putting in the Windows 7 retail key. Another option is he can reinstall Windows 10, sign in with a Microsoft account, activate it with the Windows 7 key, then try to upgrade it again. It's possible that Microsoft might allow activation if the digital entitlement is tied to a Microsoft account. Remember, Microsoft forces you to sign in with a Microsoft account on Windows 11. If you bypass that, you're doing something that isn't supported by Microsoft and something that Microsoft doesn't expect.

 

[britechguy]

Remember, Microsoft forces you to sign in with a Microsoft account on Windows 11.

And as an aside to that, it appears that M365 used on a machine where a local account is in use can now have problems, too. One of my client's who's blind, and on a Windows 10 box where he had been using a local account with M365 logged in (as it must be) with a Microsoft Account was getting a series of new dialog boxes when opening any of the classic Office Suite programs. I had never seen them before this report, and began getting them myself the next day, which was lucky for him.

I posted the following in relation to this: Announcement Only: New One-Time Quartet of Dialogs being presented when opening any Office Suite M365 or Office 2016 & Later Program - October 2023

The short version is that the answers you give to whichever of these dialog quartets opens first is supposed to "stick" and you're never supposed to be asked them again. But if you're using a local Windows account with M365, some bug is preventing these answers from sticking (I'm sure it's stored at the account level and expects a MS-Account linked Windows User Account) and they keep being asked again and again and again. The issue instantly went away when I did nothing more than shift his local account to be an MS-Account-linked one that used the same MS Account that was used to log in to M365.

 

[sapphirescales]

@britechguy Well, add that to the list of 5,293,193 reasons NOT to use M365. I will never pay a subscription for a fricking typing program and OneDrive sucks. Hopefully OneDrive will be better with the new Backup app Microsoft just released but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[britechguy]

@sapphirescales: You are certainly entitled to your opinion and position on M365. It is not one that I, or millions of subscribers around the world, both home users, businesses, and educational institutions, share.

I wouldn't go back at this point for love nor money. The M365 Family deal at $99/year is an absolute fire-sale type bargain for what you get.

 

[Metanis]

The M365 Family deal at $99/year is an absolute fire-sale type bargain for what you get.

Please don't post that kind of reaction. If Microsoft even suspects they're giving consumers a good deal they'll change it!

 

[britechguy]

Please don't post that kind of reaction.

You're right. My bad. M365 Family is grossly overpriced and Microsoft should be shot for having the gall to charge that much!!! ;-)

 

[LordX]

Yes the hardware was new. After the failure to activate on Windows 11, my brother went back to 10 and it activated again just fine (automatically with the digital license).

All fresh installs were done with ISO right from MS download page.

Windows 11 Pro does not 'require' a MS account sign in. The retail Win 7 was Pro.

I do feel like if he really needs Win 11 in the future, he could probably sign in with a MS account, and tie this machine to it, then upgrade to 11.

However, by the time Win 10 loses support, I feel like we will be on Win 12 and dealing with whatever new issues it brings.

And who knows, maybe the petitions that are already starting will gain traction and push Windows 10 EOL out a couple more years!

My concern is that there are a FEW customers I know who are on 10 now that used their old Windows 7 retail keys for new custom built machines (I make it a point to ask customers if they have an old software drawer, and you would be surprised how many people BOUGHT windows 7 with how bad vista was). I mean people still have serial cables lying in their cord drawers every now and then - you know you have seen these drawers!

So it is this small sub-section of customer that I am worried about if they decide to let Win11 install, or feel forced to down the road.

I hope it was just a burp - as my brother is back on 10 and has all his games installed and has no interest in messing with 11 again. I had him get the GRC In Control app to change the registry to prevent WIn11 install through windows update.

A Handy quick registry patch tool for anyone who has customers who absolutely need or want to stay on 10.

 

[timeshifter]

I found a solution

Amazon.com

 

[LordX]

I found a solution

Amazon.com

I guess?

Wouldn't you rather be able to help a customer and have that $$$ be paid to you VS Microsoft? As long as there is a legitimate path to follow, I know I would.

I had a LOT of service calls helping people upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10. Even somewhat recently. I could have just sent them an Amazon link and given the money to MS.....................

 

[Markverhyden]

He used an old retail Windows 7 key he bought for the old dismantled system to install Windows 10 with. Worked no problem.

How sure are you that it's a _REAL_ retail key? Many people bought what they thought were retail keys but ended up being purloined OEM, etc keys. Now that he's re-installed W10 and it auto activated it's possible it might be able to have the W11 upgrade activate.

 

[timeshifter]

I guess?

Wouldn't you rather be able to help a customer and have that $$$ be paid to you VS Microsoft? As long as there is a legitimate path to follow, I know I would.

I had a LOT of service calls helping people upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10. Even somewhat recently. I could have just sent them an Amazon link and given the money to MS.....................

Yes, I’d be glad to help the customer and would rather earn the money than give it to Microsoft.

And if that’s what they need I’m not sending them to buy it themselves, I’m going to buy it for them or have them buy it… then charge my fees to install it and make it work.

 

[nlinecomputers]

My brother recently built himself a new desktop (after almost 15 years!!).

He used an old retail Windows 7 key he bought for the old dismantled system to install Windows 10 with. Worked no problem.

However, his new system 'auto' upgraded to Windows 11, and even though it installed THROUGH windows update, it would not activate.

I read that Windows 11 activation servers recently stopped working with old Windows 7/8 keys, and I think that this may be an after effect.

What are his options? Right now he just reinstalled 10, which immediately activated with the digital license. He is not signed in with a MS account, just using a local user account.

Would signing in with a MS account on Windows 10 first, THEN upgrading to 11 solve this activation issue? Or sign in, link the computer, then fresh install of 11?

What an annoying thing to stop allowing so far into the life of Windows 10/11...

Buy a copy of Windows 11 and stop f-ing around. There’s only so much luck with free work arounds.

 

[britechguy]

Best deal I've found: https://www.stacksocial.com/sales/microsoft-windows-11-pro

And that is where I bought my Pro license, and it did apply, as advertised, on 3 machines without a hitch.

 

[nlinecomputers]

I’m all for taking advantage of a free upgrade. But if Microsoft finally has closed that door well it sucks to be you. Either pay for a legitimate copy or switch to Linux.