Windows 10 Mail client is deleting your Gmail sent items

[callthatgirl]

@britechguy

I agree, though, that no one needs Outlook.

What, obviously you don't support business clients. Your comment is ridiculous.

 

[callthatgirl]

@britechguy lol
I don't use 2FA on anything where choice is involved, particularly e-mail. It's gross overkill in my opinion in virtually all cases.

Wow. You don't support business clients, I think you need to stay out of email/Outlook posts. Your advice is again, not adding value to the post.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Not 2FA'ing an email box is just asking for ID theft... And in any business use case it's a situation that results in BUCKETS of money lost.

Now, I do disable Microsoft's "Security Defaults", because that requires all mailboxes to be 2FA in M365. And that's just not feasible...

But if you're on Google or M365, and you have admin power of any kind? 2FA is required...
If you're an executive, business owner, or you work anywhere that does anything with money... 2FA is required...

Other places that MUST be 2FA?

Registrar Logins
Online Banking
Cloud Exposed remote administration features
PBX logins too, if you can do it

This isn't a matter of securing a bicycle with Fort Knox, this is what's required to keep the Nigerian princes out of my client's email boxes so they stay in business.

And for the record, the reason why Outlook has trouble with Google via 2FA is GOOGLE's fault, not Microsoft's fault. Google doesn't believe in on premise anything, so anyone that's attempting to use any sort of on premise mail client, with Google services is flat going against the grain. If you want that flexibility by design, you need to be on M365. That flexibility by the way is why I feel Google Apps is not business ready for any business. It costs more, and does far too little.

 

[callthatgirl]

@Sky-Knight

Using Outlook is like driving a Bentley now, very luxury product. I tell clients that almost on the daily. Use the browser or Mail app or Thunderbird/eMClient for basic no support use.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@callthatgirl It's very much a business product, but I can't run my life without it. People say just use the webmail! I say... WTF... Outlook isn't just EMAIL! That short shortsightedness is the same as people telling me Teams is just Skype.

Both statements are technically true, but yet... they just aren't either.

M365 Family has custom domain support, so you can get noncommercial, on/off premise email access via hosted exchange through it too. You just can't control the hosted exchange instance that runs it. But it is very much still there for home users. The techs out there that know how to get it working however... relatively rare. And there's no way I'd configure it for anyone for anything less than $300 just due to the time involved. Because along the way again, 2FA the registrar, and the M365 master account.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...c02-8c07-8979403b427b?ui=en-us&rs=en-us&ad=us

I do think over time however use of any on premise software will fade. Eventually, everything will be web applets.

 

[sapphirescales]

Your clients love Outlook

Nobody likes Outlook any more than anyone likes Quickbooks. They're necessary evils (like Norton back in the day). No, I can't support Outlook because if I pushed Outlook on my residential clients they'd all throw away their computers because it would be too expensive to keep them with all the maintenance and hand holding that Outlook requires. I only recommend Outlook to my large business clients (which I have very few of) and old people that just can't get used to anything else.

you hate supporting it

Who hates free money? That's what Windows is and that's what Outlook is. The difference is, my residential clients can only afford to pay to support one of them, and an operating system is more important than an email client. I'd love for Outlook to become popular on Macs. It's very rare that I see a Mac with a software problem. It's always hardware. And with their hardware being 100% disposable these days, Macs are just as useless to me as airplanes or paper bags when it comes to generating repair revenue. I do make good money selling them though.

 

[Diggs]

Nobody likes Outlook any more than anyone likes Quickbooks. They're necessary evils

I have to agree with this. I used Outlook for 20+ years in my corporate days and once I left corporate life I have never used it again and am so glad.

 

[callthatgirl]

@Sky-Knight I do think over time however use of any on premise software will fade. Eventually, everything will be web applets.

I 100% agree, the desktop apps will be gone in 10 years or less. Microsoft has stated it, I am working on my next level business plan now lol. And I run my life in Outlook/Exchange, it's so awesome. I setup home users on M365 too, they just use the freebie domain with the onmicrosoft but some buy a family domain and look cool.

 

[AlexCa]

You need to go into your Google account and turn on support for "less secure apps" (this would be Outlook). Disabling 2fA is a good step too. Like I said, Outlook is still stuck in the 90

Thank you. That's one of the first things I've tried, but it seems that it cannot be disabled when 2fa is on. At the time, after doing many things I ended up being able to configure one account, but then said "screw it". I had more accounts to configure again, but it was too much of a PITA and it might all go to hell again. So, since I'm using Edge for everyday browsing, I've installed Chrome for email only and have one tab open for each email, with desktop notifications turned on.

 

[callthatgirl]

@AlexCa I wish I could give up too sometimes, I have to fix it, no matter what, as that's my job. I too have many battles to win with Gmail and Outlook. And yes, it will go to hell again, once there is a new Windows update or Office lol.

 

[britechguy]

Not 2FA'ing an email box is just asking for ID theft...

Er, no. It's really not. And it's just this sort of attitude that I rail against.

If a user is truly stupid enough not to recognize Nigerian Prince scams and the like, 2FA is not going to save them.

2FA for e-mail account access is, absolutely, Fort Knox for protecting a bicycle (not broken, though).

And anyone in business who has not learned that you do not, ever, include sensitive information in e-mail correspondence is just asking for a world of hurt whether 2FA is involved or not. There are certain things that you do not do by conventional e-mail or text message.

 

[carmen617]

I personally use Outlook and support it for a ton of my mostly residential clients. I have no complaints because it's a huge money maker for me. The fact that Microsoft "hid" the old classic account settings deep in the classic control panel, only accessibly if you search in that control panel, has made me a fortune. Every time someone changes their email password it requires a service call to reconfigure Outlook. Thanks Microsoft!

I can see hating this if you are an MSP and that kind of service is included in your monthly rate. But as a break fix business it's just part of my bread and butter.

As far as 2FA, that's another necessary pain in the butt. I recommend every one of my clients use it every place they possibly can. No, it's not perfect, but it's a lot better than getting their email hacked and having the hacker filter out the questions from their bank about whether or not they want to wire transfer $30k to a fake contractor, which I have seen happen. Yet again, client problems are my source of income. Complaining about laptops that require you to remove 30 screws and the motherboard to replace the hard drive makes sense. Complaining about Microsoft updates that cause us to make service calls doesn't.

 

[callthatgirl]

If a user is truly stupid enough not to recognize Nigerian Prince scams and the like, 2FA is not going to save them.

Warning to members reading Britech's information...do not listen to him in regards to email security or Outlook. It's obvious he doesn't know about the topic. I setup 2FA and MFA for all my clients, home and business. I train them how to avoid email phishing scams and help with these via email.

 

[callthatgirl]

@carmen617 I am happy to see another break/fix tech here, I agree with your entire post!

 

[Sky-Knight]

Er, no. It's really not. And it's just this sort of attitude that I rail against.

If a user is truly stupid enough not to recognize Nigerian Prince scams and the like, 2FA is not going to save them.

2FA for e-mail account access is, absolutely, Fort Knox for protecting a bicycle (not broken, though).

And anyone in business who has not learned that you do not, ever, include sensitive information in e-mail correspondence is just asking for a world of hurt whether 2FA is involved or not. There are certain things that you do not do by conventional e-mail or text message.

All M365 tenants come with security defaults enabled.

Security defaults ENFORCES 2FA on all mail boxes.

All new Google tenants are the same.

You have to TURN THAT CRAP OFF.

And why do BOTH Microsoft and Google ask for this? Because a single factor of authentication is simply NOT ENOUGH. You think I'm talking about Nigerian Princes because someone is responding to a scam mail. I'm not... I'm talking about a world where humans use the same password all over the place. I'm talking about a world where automated password collection engines run 24/7 hours a day, 365 days a year. And when you get hit? These bastards don't just login to your mailbox to send spam... they login and WATCH, and wait... and come up with a personal plan to take you financially apart. These logins tend to come from Africa predominately, but they can come from anywhere.

And I cannot WAIT for those bastards to get you... so you'll know just how ignorant you are, and how much of a disservice you're doing to your customers while you pizza tech your ignorance into a place where your bank accounts are emptied. I watched a CEO get hit for over $200,000 last year alone because he didn't let me 2FA his mailbox. This scammer? Happened to be logging in from Nigeria, hence... he's a Nigerian Prince.

2FA ALL the things, especially the things that belong to people with any sort of real assets. I'm not going to agree on this because you're working against the grain of the standards set by your betters in the field. You're doing exactly what you claim you never do, all while putting forth a supported logic based on what amounts to propaganda.

 

[britechguy]

All M365 tenants come with security defaults enabled.

Security defaults ENFORCES 2FA on all mail boxes.

All new Google tenants are the same.

You have to TURN THAT CRAP OFF.
.
.
.

And I cannot WAIT for those bastards to get you... so you'll know just how ignorant you are, and how much of a disservice you're doing to your customers while you pizza tech your ignorance into a place where your bank accounts are emptied. I watched a CEO get hit for over $200,000 last year alone because he didn't let me 2FA his mailbox. This scammer? Happened to be logging in from Nigeria, hence... he's a Nigerian Prince.

You know, if my practices have not resulted in disaster for myself or anyone else since 1985, that indicates to me I must be doing something right.

You presume all sorts of things not in evidence.

I tend to leave defaults alone, including 2FA, when present. I don't add them in when not, and generally not needed. And I'll stand by my opinion that for email it's just not needed in the vast majority of cases. I can sleep at night quite soundly, as there are other, bigger worries about far more probable breaches.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@britechguy

https://www.microsoft.com/security/...e-to-prevent-99-9-percent-of-account-attacks/

99.9% effectiveness... next you'll be telling me masks don't work to prevent the spread of SARS-COV-2, because that's the level of stupid you're spewing. Moreover, anecdotal evidence is not evidence.

Email alone doesn't need MFA, as long as there's no money running through it. That means that email has no domain registrar attached to it, no bank accounts, and no cellular providers. There are legitimate reasons to leave MFA off on email... they're just getting smaller and smaller by the day.

 

[britechguy]

The reference you give is great. But right at the beginning it states that most password-related breaches are the result of weak, default, or stolen passwords.

One of the best things we can do as far as passwords go is teaching people how to create strong, but memorable to them, passwords (phrases, really).

We're never going to agree. I have nothing against MFA, I just don't think it's necessary in a very great many cases when it comes to email. I've never argued that it's not for things like online banking, etc.

If people want to use it, or want me to set it up if it's not already in place, I can and will do so. If they don't, and it's the average residential user, I'm a lot more concerned that they learn how to create secure passwords that they don't share, and store them in a way that is highly unlikely to be compromised by a cyber-passerby. For a lot of my senior clients, having a notebook in their desk is a lot more secure than any other method they would be likely to use since they keep great physical control over access to their house.