Windows 10 Afterlife?

[Blues]

So the question is for users who don't want to pay $30 and the other options for free ESU aren't an option what do you suggest or even what would you look at after the ESU ends?

I have seen things mentioned like 0Patch but I know very little about it and what options in that space there are along with not knowing cost, reliability, and overall their security. SO looking as I might have some bewildered clients soon as notice and push to upgrade gets stronger and the fear mongering get more fierce from MS. I know Linux and possibly installing Windows 11 on unsupported are potentially options but both those have serious risk and drawbacks where the ESU and a 3rd party patch system appear more seamless.

 

[GTP]

I know Linux and possibly installing Windows 11 on unsupported are potentially options but both those have serious risk and drawbacks

That’s a common misconception. Linux itself isn’t some “risky” back-alley option - it’s a mainstream, actively maintained OS powering most servers, supercomputers and even Android devices. If anything, sticking with an unsupported Windows version plus third-party patches carries more long-term risk than running a current LTS Linux distro that gets security fixes straight from the source.

What "serious risks" are you referring to exactly where Linux is concerned??

 

[Markverhyden]

Actually Microsoft, like Apple, is making it harder and harder to shoehorn modern versions of OS's on unsupported hardware to specifically mitigate those risks. If it can't run then it's not a risk.

What it really boils down to is risk assessment. Where and how much? How bad could things get in terms of lost money, reputation and customers? These are conversations to have with the EU.

Regardless of which church you attend both Microsoft and Apple have always supported their "products". A product being a device running an OS. In the case of MS it includes all the OEM. Generic/white boxes are covered through OEM or Retail licenses of the OS's. The problem with Linux is no one own's it per se. Personally I started more than 30 years ago with Slackware and wondered through several others over the years. At the moment it's either CentOS or Ubuntu for my servers.

MS has reclaimed some territory lost to *nixes via W10 IoT. But there's plenty still abound. I do work for a company that has coupon kiosks in several grocery chains and those all run on RHEL. Pretty much ever single edge device is running some form of *nix or a descendent of one. When someone "buys" Linux, say RedHat, what they are really purchasing is a support contract.

There are ways to stay MS "free" but it requires work. And no one is going to do that for free for someone else.

And we can't finish this without mentioning licensing. To be technically correct it's GNU/Linux. GNU (GNU is not Unix - note the recursion) was originally written by Richard Stallman and other with the Free Software Foundation distributed under GPL. That, in turn, was used by Torvalds and other to complete the first kennel stack. GPL means you can't charge for the software itself. Just labor to work on it or paying for media, such as a DVD, to get it. Another important part of is that companies that incorporate changes are required to make those publicly available which is what copy lefted is all about.

25+ years ago I have a number Linux servers out there running as SAMBA file sharing including QB servers at a fraction of the cost of a MS server distro. But M$ as well as Intuit wised up and altered their code so that for pretty anything to work the data had to be sitting on a box actually running a MS OS.

 

[Diggs]

I'll have several Win10 laptops continuing for the foreseeable future but they will be frozen in time and no longer connected to the net. One is for the security cams with no net access and the other is on the bench with a Hantech data logger and oscilloscope. We use Linux for Spotify/Pandora machines and drive cloning.

 

[Markverhyden]

I'll have several Win10 laptops continuing for the foreseeable future but they will be frozen in time and no longer connected to the net. One is for the security cams with no net access and the other is on the bench with a Hantech data logger and oscilloscope. We use Linux for Spotify/Pandora machines and drive cloning.

Sandboxing is a common method used. A lot of those KDS, Kitchen Display in QSR's are still running W7 and even W XP, PoS

 

[fincoder]

free ESU aren't an option

Enrolling in ESU simply requires a Microsoft account to be specified during enrolment only. I can't think why ESU wouldn't be an option to get 1 more year of Windows 10 support. That's another full year of planning for Windows 10 end-of-support.

 

[Sky-Knight]

It's not reasonable to use an operating system that lacks support while retaining Internet connectivity.

If the leap to Windows 11 isn't reasonable, then you get out of the Windows ecosystem entirely. I recommend Linux Mint XFCE edition.

It's not the 90s anymore, and an unpatched machine dies when it sees the wrong ad on MSN.com. You don't have to click on anything, drive by infections from who knows what will become more of a threat with each passing month post support termination.

Also note, there are no ways to get patches for Windows 10 outside of MIcrosoft. The mention of 0patch doesn't make a ton of sense, because again, they cannot provide what doesn't exist. Your best case scenario here is another year, and then dead just the same as if you did the ESU.

 

[Blues]

That’s a common misconception. Linux itself isn’t some “risky” back-alley option - it’s a mainstream, actively maintained OS powering most servers, supercomputers and even Android devices. If anything, sticking with an unsupported Windows version plus third-party patches carries more long-term risk than running a current LTS Linux distro that gets security fixes straight from the source.

What "serious risks" are you referring to exactly where Linux is concerned??

Risk in customer satisfaction and resolution not in system stability or security sorry wasn't clear there a different type of risk and problem set. I didn't mean to imply that a 3rd party patching system wasn't also risky in fact I am very unfamiliar with such systems that I really can't make any judgement on those.

 

[Blues]

Enrolling in ESU simply requires a Microsoft account to be specified during enrolment only. I can't think why ESU wouldn't be an option to get 1 more year of Windows 10 support. That's another full year of planning for Windows 10 end-of-support.

The client refuses to pay $30, has no MS points, and refuses to sign-up/setup the OneDrive backup. I have dealt with some stubborn and paranoid people I also have some elderly clients who a new PC is a waste of money but 1 year of support is also not sufficient that I want to consider options for.

 

[britechguy]

The client refuses to pay $30, has no MS points, and refuses to sign-up/setup the OneDrive backup.

That's a client that gets fired, as far as I'm concerned. We're not miracle workers, and if the client will not upgrade to Windows 11 or change OS ecosystems, there's nothing we can do for them other than the ESU or bail.

The customer is definitively not always right. And if you lead that proverbial horse to water and it adamantly refuses to drink . . .

 

[Metanis]

The client refuses to pay $30, has no MS points, and refuses to sign-up/setup the OneDrive backup.

They still have plenty of options. They can disconnect from the Internet permanently. They can subscribe to 0patch. They can switch to Linux. They can do nothing and risk being compromised at some point in the future. If they don't browse the Internet they might actually survive for years without patches.

But what I don't get is the refusal to have a M$ account. You don't actually need to use it on the box, just prove you have one. I don't use the Google universe but I have a Google account. I have hundreds of web-based accounts, what's one more?

 

[Blues]

That's a client that gets fired, as far as I'm concerned. We're not miracle workers, and if the client will not upgrade to Windows 11 or change OS ecosystems, there's nothing we can do for them other than the ESU or bail.

The customer is definitively not always right. And if you lead that proverbial horse to water and it adamantly refuses to drink . . .

At this point it is an exploration of options and my biggest concern is the select group of clients who I am honestly not sure will be around long enough to justify new hardware and/or major system changes but only 1 year of ESU is also insufficient. These clients also "need" email usually for pictures from children, grand children, and even great grand children so an offline setup to play solitaire isn't going to work either.

 

[britechguy]

These clients also "need" email usually for pictures from children, grand children, and even great grand children

Then you really need to look at what it is they need/want to do, routinely. If it's only email and the odd web surfing, then I wouldn't hesitate to switch them over to Linux. It's safer for them, it's safer for you, and using, say, Firefox and Thunderbird (or pick your web browser other than Edge and an email client for Linux) strictly for light web surfing and emailing is not a tectonic shift or anything near it.

Click on icon, run given program, is exactly the same. And if this is the extent of their actual usage pattern, better that they do this is some supported environment than under unsupported Windows 10.

I expect to see exactly the same basic pattern of nefarious behavior begin in mid-October and run for between 6 months and a year, and that's the hunt for and exploitation of every single unpatched vulnerability that can be found. And I suspect, but this is pure speculation, that the scale will be bigger simply because the tools available now are "more and better" (including AI in the mix) for those who wish to dabble in nefarious hacking.

I have certain clients in exactly the age demographic you describe, and if they call me in post-Win10 sunset date, and they're not enrolled in the ESU and would refuse to do so, then I'll have to have the proverbial "Come to Jesus" talk with them.

 

[Diggs]

But what I don't get is the refusal to have a M$ account.

Having to get a MS account used to bother me, but as @Metanis pointed out I have so many other accounts, Google included, why wouldn't I/client have a MS account.

 

[Sky-Knight]

The client refuses to pay $30, has no MS points, and refuses to sign-up/setup the OneDrive backup. I have dealt with some stubborn and paranoid people I also have some elderly clients who a new PC is a waste of money but 1 year of support is also not sufficient that I want to consider options for.

Right, so what exactly are you doing?

The last time I checked, we're all in this to get paid. We have to eat right? So if the customer isn't willing to fork over $30, then what do they have left for you to earn?

How much time and effort has this thread alone cost you?

Seriously, every "professional" anywhere should have vastly better things to do with their time, and this is one of those things that you simply respond, "I'm sorry I can't help you" and move on to something that can put food on the table.

You will find that the hard no, opens many doors. This is a lesson I learned entirely too late in life. The customer doesn't know any better, and the push back is just a negotiation tactic. It's toxic and it's stupid, but it often yields alternatives for them without any effort on their part. Don't humor this... politely inform them this is what I support, if you don't like it take a hike.

You'll find yourself selling a new machine more often than not.

 

[britechguy]

politely inform them this is what I support, if you don't like it take a hike.

Yep. There is a diplomatic way to say just this. I also sometimes add information about my local competition and checking with them, but noting at the same time that it is highly unlikely that anyone will take on this work. Once they've called one or two other people and gotten the same response (which is the typical outcome) they usually do one of two things:
1. Drop it entirely and let the chips fall where they may for the time being.
2. Come back to me because I was the first person to inform them, politely and diplomatically, exactly why I won't support computers with out of support operating systems.

I've gotten quite a bit of "return to me for the first time, and keep returning to me later" business this way.

 

[fincoder]

refuses to sign-up/setup the OneDrive backup

Did you miss this bit I mentioned?

Enrolling in ESU simply requires a Microsoft account to be specified during enrolment only.

And backup of files to OneDrive is not required. It's important for you to advise your client accurately.

Regardless, they are the options available to keep getting security updates for Windows 10. Your client must take it or leave it.

 

[frase]

I had an on Popup message on boot this morning. A HUGE Windows10 related message that was zoomed in and just well annoying.
I am on Windows 11 whatever so am unsure why I received this instant popup on boot, anyone else exeperienced this?

 

[Diggs]

I received this instant popup on boot, anyone else exeperienced this?

Yes though only on one machine so far.