wifi x 2

[glennd]

I have a customer that has a netgear wifi router in the house providing both the secure wifi connection to the internal lan as well as the guest wifi to provide internet access for visitors. They also have a wifi extender to get the guest wifi into the workshop about 80 meters away. They would like the secure wifi to be available in the workshop as well. Is there a single device/extender/whatever that can get both wifi into the second building? We're free to replace any/all of the existing equipment if we can figure out how to get the two wifi s in the workshop. Is there an elegant solution to this? Am i setting up two range extenders? Running cable is not desirable due to the lay of the land. EoP is not possible due to separate power circuits.

 

[Markverhyden]

Not done this but I seem to think that you can with Unifi

https://help.ubnt.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002262328-UniFi-Feature-Guide-Wireless-Uplink

 

[phaZed]

Unifi will do this. Really, anything that can VLAN will work.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Easy Peasy with Ubiquiti products......
...probably a mixed success rate with mix matched residential gear. Properly done in a business for guest networks you run at least 2x layers of security. Most wifi gear these days has a "guest mode" you can attach to an SSID. So even though it's on the same IP range as the main network...it puts each client into a "client isolation mode"...sorta putting each client into their own unique VLAN (not technically...but sorta)..so that they cannot see ANYthing else on the network except the gateway IP (thus...the internet)...and it allows DHCP and DNS through too.

For most residential setups..this should be totally fine.

For businesses some security audits prefer to see guess (or any non-production network) wifi on totally different IP ranges...so we handle that via VLANs and sometimes (usually for me) even a totally differnt interface on the firewall. So having this requirement of VLAN support for a residential...might be overkill and drive the budget up too high because of the need for a managed switch or at least firewall that supports VLANs (as you can usually pass VLANs through an unmanaged switch.."usually"...not guaranteed).

With Ubiquiti being so low priced..give us a good map/layout of the place and we can give you a BOM so you can see just how low priced it would be.

 

[glennd]

Not done this but I seem to think that you can with Unifi

https://help.ubnt.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002262328-UniFi-Feature-Guide-Wireless-Uplink

Thanks Mark. I've read that article a couple of times and the best I can make of it is I connect a "base station" to the router and install two access points in the workshop, one for each wifi. Does that sound right?

Edit: I don't think that's right. Perhaps another way of asking the question is how to set up the two SSIDs in one building and extend those to a second building? Do I have to run parallel hardware?

 

[glennd]

Easy Peasy with Ubiquiti products......

Can their APs do multiple SSIDs?

 

[Markverhyden]

Thanks Mark. I've read that article a couple of times and the best I can make of it is I connect a "base station" to the router and install two access points in the workshop, one for each wifi. Does that sound right?

Edit: I don't think that's right. Perhaps another way of asking the question is how to set up the two SSIDs in one building and extend those to a second building? Do I have to run parallel hardware?

The "base station" is the first active AP which includes wireless linking to other AP's. The other AP's are configured to mesh with the base station which means up and down traffic is routed through the base station.

Can their APs do multiple SSIDs?

Yes. My Unifi AC Pro (older version)



Conceptually this is easy but in reality it can be a bit difficult to setup depending on the hardware platform. When Apple was supporting their wireless tech they had a really simple, automated setup but I no longer recommend it since they have dropped support to bug fixes. Ubiquiti launched a system last year in the USA. Not sure if it's available yet in Australia. https://www.amplifi.com/ It's about as simple as the Apple system to setup.

Edit: Just checked mine and Amplifi does support a guest network that includes password and other restrictions. It uses a smart device app to manage and you need Blue Tooth for the initial setup to work properly.

 

[glennd]

Yes. My Unifi AC Pro (older version)

that's what we want. So, I get two of these, one serves as the uplink, the other as the downlink. Would the uplink device replace the existing wifi router? will they make the jump between buildings or do i have to get something like a nanobeam? does the nanobeam carry multiple ssids?

What's amplifi? is that ubiquity too?

 

[Markverhyden]

that's what we want. So, I get two of these, one serves as the uplink, the other as the downlink. Would the uplink device replace the existing wifi router? will they make the jump between buildings or do i have to get something like a nanobeam? does the nanobeam carry multiple ssids?

What's amplifi? is that ubiquity too?

These are radios so they have the same problem as any radio type devices. I'd make a survey with only one wireless in the main building taking the reading in the second building. The signal strength will give you an indication of speed. Mesh points have something like half the speed as the band width handles both directions. Amplifi is a Ubiquiti product.

 

[glennd]

These are radios so they have the same problem as any radio type devices. I'd make a survey with only one wireless in the main building taking the reading in the second building. The signal strength will give you an indication of speed. Mesh points have something like half the speed as the band width handles both directions. Amplifi is a Ubiquiti product.

I've been reading up on the Amplifi HD system. They claim coverage of 20,000 sq ft which should do the job.

http://au.pcmag.com/review/43611/ubiquiti-amplifi-hd-home-wi-fi-system

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Ubiquiti's Unifi wireless APs support up to 4x SSIDs....I believe Amplifi supports just as many, you'd have to double check on that.

airMax hardware (like nanobeam)...it's for doing point to point runs, think of it like an invisible ethernet cable. You can shove whatever kind of traffic down it you want. It's not aware of SSIDs or VLANs or how many of each...it just..carries the traffic. You can shove a few hundred SSIDs across it. It's just a network cable..an invisible one.

Amplifi is a residential grade router/wireless system that is a branch product of Ubiquiti...from a division of theirs called ULabs
https://ulabs.com/

 

[glennd]

airMax hardware (like nanobeam)...it's for doing point to point runs, think of it like an invisible ethernet cable. You can shove whatever kind of traffic down it you want. It's not aware of SSIDs or VLANs or how many of each...it just..carries the traffic. You can shove a few hundred SSIDs across it. It's just a network cable..an invisible one.

can you explain this some more. i thought it was a bridging device. You're suggesting it's more than that?

 

[Markverhyden]

can you explain this some more. i thought it was a bridging device. You're suggesting it's more than that?

It's intended to operate as a transport layer. A common older technology used in a similar manner is microwave. Acts as a tunnel for all traffic between 2 points. But AirMAX is much more. @YeOldeStonecat did an install some time ago, between an island and the mainland, and posted about it but I was unable to find a link to it.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

can you explain this some more. i thought it was a bridging device. You're suggesting it's more than that?

Techically it's still a bridge. It's taking copper ethernet (or fiber) and making it wireless. And other other side...taking wireless ...and putting it back on copper ethernet (or fiber). airMax and airFiber systems are primarily used for "point to point"...that is, connecting two points..that you would have a hard time running ethernet cable to. That's why we use the phrase "invisible ethernet cable".

"I need to extend my network over THERE"...and you point to some location.

You "can" use an airMax as an access point...but it's really not designed for that, so it's not tuned for that.

So you'll see them used in situations such as...connecting buildings. Recently I had a client grow..and they started renting another office building diagonally across the street from their first office. Instead of trenching fiber or ethernet down under the street to connect the buildings, or instead of running in another internet connection and using a VPN to create a slow connection between the buildings, I got a couple of Nanos...mounted one on each building, put a switch in the new building, and had a 300 meg connection between the two buildings...basically extending their main buildings network.

In the big job Mark mentioned above...I used a pair of big airFiber radios. I brought Comcast high speed internet to a school located on an island 6 miles offshore. The islands phone company infrastructure couldn't give the school enough bandwidth with the basic wobbly DSL they had out on that island. The school needed to get over 100 megs. So I had a Comcast 150 modem installed at a police station with a 200 foot tower they rented space from...and you know how you use a network cable between the modem and the WAN port of your router? I used the pair of airFiber AF5U radios to make 1x 6 mile network cable between the modem...on mainland, going over the ocean...to the WAN port of the Untangle firewall I have at the school.

In about 1 hour I'm leaving to go do another site survey...flying low in a little Cessna 172, for another project I have coming up. I'll hopefully be using airMax units to provide internet to several homes...also on this island. Go someone from the island is flying me out there...doing some treeline buzzing..and I am bringing a drone with me to buzz the treetops even lower. I have a bit of trees to go through hence my wanting to get a more accurate picture of what interference I have....can't have too many trees in the way.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Another way we used the smaller airMax units like Nanos ....distributing outdoor wifi. Marinas. Have a few Nanos on the roof of a central building, aimed at receiving Nanos at various locations out on the docks and piers...and out the backside of those receiving Nanos....we'll put outdoor wireless APs.

 

[Markverhyden]

Interesting read up on Ubiquiti.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/08/12/why-ubiquti-networks-spiked-20-last-week-and-why-i.aspx

 

[glennd]

Another way we used the smaller airMax units like Nanos ....distributing outdoor wifi. Marinas. Have a few Nanos on the roof of a central building, aimed at receiving Nanos at various locations out on the docks and piers...and out the backside of those receiving Nanos....we'll put outdoor wireless APs.

each nano can carry one ssid?

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

each nano can carry one ssid?

airMax units can carry tons of SSIDs..there's no limit..it's just an ethernet cable.

 

[Markverhyden]

If you operate an airOS device in AP mode you can only broadcast one SSID for that device. At least that's the case with my Pico M2.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Maybe I misunderstood his question.
When I talk about airMax..>I'm talking about point to point..in which case then carry whatever you feel like throwing at them, just like an ethernet cable.
If you try using an airMax as an AP..kinda the wrong tool for the job but they happen to support that since they are just a bridge..but yes airOS only has 1x SSID. If you run a PICO...and wish for multiple SSIDs...flash it with Unifi, it does work and now you have a fully Unifi capable device with up to 4x SSIDs. Just...slower since the PICO is older generation and single MIMO.