What's so wrong with fromat/reinstall?

WDHIII

WDHIII

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fromat=format!!
I enjoy the challenge of removing malware just as much as the next guy, but...Why is it that many techs on this forum feel that formatting and reinstalling windows is tantamount to waiving a white flag?

I have many customers that bought their compy in 2004-2006, installed and uninstalled scores of programs, tried to "speed up windows" with various techniques and just have not maintained their computers very well. Is it not in their best interest to backup their data and reinstall windows. Every time I have done this the customer is utterly surprised at the speed of their "new" computer.

I admit that I do not have the experience that many of you guys have, but I have been very successful in ridding my customers machines of malware, in many cases manually. I just don't see the problem with the "Nuke & Pave".

Seems to be macho BS, and I know a lot about macho BS, I have to deal with that mentality every third day (my full-time job).

Please explain.
 
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In my opinion, it is not macho bs; it's responsible repair work. The customer hired us to fix their machine, not erase and start over. They have personalized the machine the way they like, are used to the way it runs, have installed programs and add ons that they may not have media for any longer, etc, etc. A prime example: work on a computer owned by a Century 21 rep. Good luck finding the installation media for their listing software.

Just my 2 cents. If all our job consisted of was wiping and reloading windows, then any half-way knowledgeable person recently out of work would take up the computer business. Oh wait . . . nothing personal to those this may refer to.;)

Plus, you still haven't addressed the initial problem. It's important to try to find out how they were infected so you can educate your customer on how to stay safe. I could go on for some time here, but others have input as well.
 
WDHIII... I agree with you. When I started tinkering with computers my "mentors" ONLY wiped and reloaded. I have been succesfull with that on over 50 machines in my brief career. My customers too were amazed at just how fast their "new" machine ran.

As I got further along I realized that surgically extracting malware and the like was an essential skill if I wanted to excell in this game.

I am practicing this avenue now and picking up a lot from the guys here.

I think that in the cases you mentioned of customers not doing any kind of pc maintenance...downloading all kinds of miracle cures that just made things worse and such a Wipe and Reload is the way to go.

just my 2 cent worth :)

Beep Beep.......

Road Runner
 
MichianaComputers said:
Just because thats the only way you know how to fix a computer doesn't mean thats the right way to fix it.
Click to expand...

Obviously you did not read my post. That is NOT the only way I know how to fix a computer. Please continue to jump to conclusions while reading a message board.

Thanks to the other posters, I appreciate your insight. I have not had any customers with out of the ordinary software, but I can see why formatting would not be the way to go in those circumstances.

I do try and educate the users on safe computing practices.
 
I don't think there is anything wrong with the nuke and pave method, you just need to know when it's the right time to do it. Like many have mentioned before, we are techs and our job is to try and repair the problems. Although the nuke and pave method is technically a repair, some techs take it as the easy way out before doing any kind of diagnosis. For me personally, it's usually the last option unless the customer specifies otherwise. Overall I'd say it's a judgment call based on your thorough diagnosis of the machine in question.
 
I will diagnose the problem and decide on each machine wether or not I am going to fix/cleanup or wipe and reload.

Its about 75% fix and about 25% wipe and reload right now. If you know what your doing and use the right tools you can fix most problems for less and in less time than a wipe and reload.
 
Format and reinstall requires no real skill, mostly time. Most users can press F10 and hit Yes. I have had a couple of clients who had failing HDDs that the restore wouldn't work on, They only wanted a new hard drive (it was in a laptop, so they didn't want to open it up) and they told me that they would do the restore from DVDs themselves.

Another reason is it is thrown out as a solution to customers when they are usually mis-informed by the tech. Some customers do not realize that they will lose everything or that their computer contains so much. In the end, all of us get a bad name because someone really didn't know what they were doing or took the lazy way out.

I don't have anything against formatting, it can be the only real good or useful solution, but to have someone who uses it to repair everything to tell me they are just as good as me at repairing computer problems is insulting to me.

I fixed a client's laptop today due to registry permission errors preventing the installation of some updates to Office. Sure, a reformat would have probably fixed that too but I would have put my client through hell.
 
It's rare that I face this dilemma but if the system cannot be cleaned and back in proper order within two hours I back it up and blast it. It's been my experience that if within two hours it still has problems I will loose my ass on this job if I continue with the macho approach. I hate to let a piece of mal-ware get the best of me but, I got to make money or I'm wasting my time.
 
its like changing a tire.

If the sidewall is blown, you replace it.

If its a little hole in the tire, why replace when you can repair?
 
very rarely wipe / reload...

angry_geek said:
They have personalized the machine the way they like, are used to the way it runs, have installed programs and add ons that they may not have media for any longer, etc, etc....
Click to expand...

I agree, most customers had various other people (friends, neighbors, etc) setup their email, install the printer, install Office (probably not their disks, don't agree, but why get into it), etc. If I 'nuke & pave' (where did this term come from, anyway?) then they will either a) expect me to do all the above things for 'free', since I couldn't 'fix' it, or b) be upset when I charge them to do all the above things after wiping out their computer.

If all we do is 'wipe / reload', then we are no better than the 'drones' on the end of most of the major manufacturer's phone lines. Our job is to add value to the process! I can count on ONE HAND (out of well over a thousand) the number of systems I've HAD TO wipe / reload. I've done it a couple of times where the customer only had the system for a month or two and had NOTHING on it and it was faster to get it back to him that way.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. :)
 
As I mentioned it is rare that I have to resort to a format and reload but, I couldn't begin to tell you the number of times I spent several hours cleaning one up and returning to the customer only to have the customer say "You could have just wiped it and reloaded, we don't have anything important on it".
 
I have come across several people that claim to be "Techs" and firmly believe there is No "Better Solution" for most problems than a "Full Wipe and Reload" if a solution is not found in under an hour...That is their answer for Most Problems because it is the easiest answer. Most computer problems are supposedly not worth their time and a wipe/reload is more "Profitable" anyways.
IMHO:
That "solution" should be the "Last Resort" in most cases.
As a technician I am responsible for diagnosis and repair solutions First.
When I run into these guys that try and convince me that I am wasting my time and money working to diagnose and repair a pc, it just burns me up to no end...
Just my perspective.
 
If I had all the time I wanted to spend with a system, I would never nuke and pave. Ever.
In reality, there are situations where a nuke is a reasonable answer. I tend to agree that some people take it a little too far with their "macho bs" and with their "nuke everything" methods. I think the trick is to learn when it's best to bite the bullet and nuke.

I'm with greggh...about 25% nuke and 75% fix. I don't really care what anyone on here thinks about that.....my customers' opinions are the only ones that matter.
 
I'm with greggh...about 25% nuke and 75% fix. I don't really care what anyone on here thinks about that.....my customers' opinions are the only ones that matter.
Click to expand...
I'm closer to the half dozen out of 1,000, but I'm really stubborn and hate it when a funky computer sneers and chortles at me. It becomes personal after a while, and I don't care if it's a dumb business decision. I gotta know there's no alternative before I throw in the towel. It's a matter of self-respect, not macho BS. Of course, my overheads are very low and I have the available time you big operators don't. :D
 
75/25 sounds reasonable. It seems that if you clean a virus, use ccleaner etc. that the computer, if it has an old install, would still suffer from "bit rot" and is not operating at maximum potential.

I remember hearing a very famous and respected "tech guy" recommend backup/format/reinstall every once a year or so. If that is a sound practice then offering that as an option to customers that have malware issues doesn't seem all that bad.
 
I remember hearing a very famous and respected "tech guy" recommend backup/format/reinstall every once a year or so. If that is a sound practice then offering that as an option to customers that have malware issues doesn't seem all that bad.
Click to expand...


The problem is that that's NOT sound practice. It's just garbage advice. You can run utilities that clean up missing or old DLL files and remove old registry entries. If you maintain your system and don't get viruses, you really never need to nuke a system.

I never format my personal systems. Then again, I know exactly what I'm installing and never get viruses or anything like that. My last system ran every day for six years and had the original OS install (although I did clone to several new, bigger drives)

The problem is that the systems we work on are owned by people that don't know better and do install garbage/viruses and wouldn't know the first thing about maintaining their system software.
 
WDHIII said:
75/25 sounds reasonable. It seems that if you clean a virus, use ccleaner etc. that the computer, if it has an old install, would still suffer from "bit rot" and is not operating at maximum potential.
Click to expand...

Can someone with a deeper knowledge explain to me how bit-rot actually works cause I don't understand that.
 
MichianaComputers said:
Just because thats the only way you know how to fix a computer doesn't mean thats the right way to fix it.
Click to expand...

Sir,

People like you are what has wrong with this forum and why it is sliding fast and furiously in a handbasket to Hell. You in all your SUPER Tech Greatness failed to comprehend my post....

I think you missed this part

" As I got further along I realized that surgically extracting malware and the like was an essential skill if I wanted to excell in this game.

I am practicing this avenue now and picking up a lot from the guys here."

I am man enough to admit I am still learning.......not a know it all old codger that doesn't offer help to those of us honing our skills.

I hope to ALWAYS have questions and not become a know it all.

I hope to find more folks like WDHIII who throws out a topic for discussion.

I hope to meet more people like Greggh who was so kind to help me with a question earlier today
http://www.technibble.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8763

I take offense to your observation that the ONLY WAY I KNOW HOW TO REPAIR COMPUTERS IS by wiping and reloading.

I am spending hours and hours doing jobs without wiping and reloading.....even when I know a wipe and reload would be easier and faster.

I hope to never become like you. I hope to one day be able to nurture others as so many folks have taken the time to help me along the path.

Enough said.I will leave it with....

Beep Beep !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Road Runner
 
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