What is your GO TO router for a small business environment?

[HCHTech]

the router needs to be semi easy to configure (hopefully web interface), opening ports should be relatively easy, VPN is also a plus.

With increasing functionality will come increasing complexity on setup - there is no way around this.

I know there are so many options but a majority of my clients fall into this category.

Advice: Pick a brand, learn it and then sell it to all of your clients. Standardization will help your business from a productivity standpoint, and a revenue standpoint. Don't balk at an annual security license - it's a source of recurring revenue in addition to providing protection for your clients. Also, firewalls don't last forever. Once they get to be 5 or 6 years old, you should be selling the client a replacement. If you track all of your installs, this is another great source of recurring revenue.

We setup a VPN user for ourselves even if the client doesn't currently need VPN. It's just another way to help us support them more quickly.

w/r/t distributors,

Can't say I agree with this. I have account with almost every distribution, everyone is more annoying than the next. I barely use any more and just Amazon/BH for all Unifi stuff these days. One click ordering off phone vs shitty portals and dealing with a sales rep for small orders.

Big distribution for Unifi gear is barely any savings when you factor shipping.

You don't use a distributor to beat Amazon on pricing. You use a distributor to have a common point of contact to deal with any problems, to streamline the ordering process, to get net30 terms, etc. Something arrive damaged? No problem they will cross ship a replacement. Accidentally order the wrong thing? No problem, they will take it back. Need some advice on a particular part? They a specialist for that brand in-house. Need a warranty replacement? No problem, they will cross ship. Find yourself in a competitive bid? They will try to price match. Try ANY of those things with Amazon and see how easy the process is.

We use Amazon too, but only when we "have to" because something is out of stock at our distributors, or we're in a rush and can find it with Prime shipping. We don't use Amazon for price. Our distributors are almost always close in price, and we markup parts anyway, so the price doesn't really matter.

We primarily use D&H, but have accounts with Synnex & Provantage. I will add that for things we buy for our own business, where pricing is more important, we do use Amazon more frequently. But, we do that knowing that the potential risk is on us if any problems crop up.

 

[marley1]

With increasing functionality will come increasing complexity on setup - there is no way around this.



Advice: Pick a brand, learn it and then sell it to all of your clients. Standardization will help your business from a productivity standpoint, and a revenue standpoint. Don't balk at an annual security license - it's a source of recurring revenue in addition to providing protection for your clients. Also, firewalls don't last forever. Once they get to be 5 or 6 years old, you should be selling the client a replacement. If you track all of your installs, this is another great source of recurring revenue.

We setup a VPN user for ourselves even if the client doesn't currently need VPN. It's just another way to help us support them more quickly.

w/r/t distributors,



You don't use a distributor to beat Amazon on pricing. You use a distributor to have a common point of contact to deal with any problems, to streamline the ordering process, to get net30 terms, etc. Something arrive damaged? No problem they will cross ship a replacement. Accidentally order the wrong thing? No problem, they will take it back. Need some advice on a particular part? They a specialist for that brand in-house. Need a warranty replacement? No problem, they will cross ship. Find yourself in a competitive bid? They will try to price match. Try ANY of those things with Amazon and see how easy the process is.

We use Amazon too, but only when we "have to" because something is out of stock at our distributors, or we're in a rush and can find it with Prime shipping. We don't use Amazon for price. Our distributors are almost always close in price, and we markup parts anyway, so the price doesn't really matter.

We primarily use D&H, but have accounts with Synnex & Provantage. I will add that for things we buy for our own business, where pricing is more important, we do use Amazon more frequently. But, we do that knowing that the potential risk is on us if any problems crop up.

I have never seen any big distributor have record customer service.

Provantage is just a var.

Tech Data and Ingram are horrible.
Dell direct which I do all my business from is also difficult on returns when a Premier Member.

Amazon, mark damaged and return. All from phone

I do about 20-40k in ordering a month. Bunch comes from Amazon.

 

[HCHTech]

I have never seen any big distributor have record customer service.

Provantage is just a var.

Tech Data and Ingram are horrible.
Dell direct which I do all my business from is also difficult on returns when a Premier Member.

Amazon, mark damaged and return. All from phone

I do about 20-40k in ordering a month. Bunch comes from Amazon.

In the last 12 months, we averaged just over 15K/mo, so we're a bit smaller than you. I have to say, our experience does not match yours. We don't use Tech Data or Ingram, but the lion's share (85%) of our orders go through D&H, with the rest spread out as previously discussed. We have had very good service from D&H, and at least acceptable service from the others. They have a warehouse about 2 hours drive from us, so we almost always get next day delivery without paying for rush shipping.

w/r/t Provantage, it works the same from our perspective. I don't care whether they are a VAR or a distributor. What is your point there?

 

[marley1]

I really have no point. I find distribution to generally be a huge waste of time.

Servers - Quoting through distribution takes multiple emails back and forth. Going direct to Dell, order with premier and done.

Computers - no distribution has Dell in stock half the time. Pricing is more. Synnex refurbished stock or Dell Outlet had been huge for me during Covid. Machines with huge discounts and coming in 2 days.

Network Gear - I do Meraki and Unifi or full Unifi. Meraki through Tech Data or Ingram saves me $20 vs Amazon. Takes longer to get. Unifi stuff through distribution to get free shipping causes me to order $1000 or more.

Battery Backups - big 1500va from distro has usually $75 in shipping. Smaller 600va are same pricing anywhere

Peripherals just easier.

Really no point. Just order where you like. I support my local distributor for all wiring, securityasecurity AV gear. I try to avoid the rest. Amazon with their Visa card gets you some nice free money to play with cash back

 

[thecomputerguy]

I really have no point. I find distribution to generally be a huge waste of time.

Servers - Quoting through distribution takes multiple emails back and forth. Going direct to Dell, order with premier and done.

Computers - no distribution has Dell in stock half the time. Pricing is more. Synnex refurbished stock or Dell Outlet had been huge for me during Covid. Machines with huge discounts and coming in 2 days.

Network Gear - I do Meraki and Unifi or full Unifi. Meraki through Tech Data or Ingram saves me $20 vs Amazon. Takes longer to get. Unifi stuff through distribution to get free shipping causes me to order $1000 or more.

Battery Backups - big 1500va from distro has usually $75 in shipping. Smaller 600va are same pricing anywhere

Peripherals just easier.

Really no point. Just order where you like. I support my local distributor for all wiring, securityasecurity AV gear. I try to avoid the rest. Amazon with their Visa card gets you some nice free money to play with cash back

Not to mention having a central point of return for literally everything I buy, especially with how generous amazon is with returns. I think I'd need a savings of over 30% to even consider going through a distributor for a single product.

I'm a Dell premier partner as well. Dell is expensive but their pro-support has been OUTSTANDING for me. I could go through the channels to be a "proper" reseller but I'd need to save a TON of money on every purchase to make it worthwhile sending in all that paperwork.

I get pretty decent systems at a pretty decent price. Their servers are reasonable, their HD's are insanely overpriced but as long as they cover them and the clients will pay a 100% markup on a $7000 server it's fine with me.

 

[Your PCMD]

Unifi here. And also self hosted controller. I find working with just one company rather than many to be less stressful and not having to learn/know about others to be less of a headache.

Also, if I run into an issue, its nothing that @YeOldeStonecat and a pint of Guinness won't solve.

 

[timeshifter]

Which UniFi device?

A year ago it'd be a USG for very small networks and USG Pro for slightly larger ones. UDM Pro now?

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

No desire for the UDM Pro, sticking to USG for small clients and Pro for medium. "Larger" clients will have more needs that a UBNT gateway won't handle, so Untangle mostly for medium to larger clients.

 

[marley1]

New Unifi usg pro replacement looks sweet

 

[timeshifter]

Biggest WTF is that the UDM Pro has no PoE ports. And no interest in a round UDM when I’m putting things in a rack.

New USG Pro? Not aware of that one. Is it out yet?

 

[Your PCMD]

New USG Pro? Not aware of that one. Is it out yet?

Must be talking about the USG Pro-4, though not new, there is a new model coming out supposingly.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

New USG Pro? Not aware of that one. Is it out yet?

I just called the USG Pro 4 the USG Pro...(I drop the 4).
There is a new model likely coming out, the Unifi Next Generation Gateway Pro ...10 gig WAN and LAN
And a neat feature called "smart power for modem"....it will "bounce" the modem automatically if it detects the link is down.
Had a few samples in the "Early Access Store" but they sold out quick.

 

[thecomputerguy]

I ended up going with a USG, the old cloud key (couldn't justify cost for the new one), and 3 UAP AC Pro's.

Everything works great .. WiFi issues are solved and everything runs SO much faster especially the VPN.

Now I just gotta keep USG's, CK's, and AP's in stock!

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Now I just gotta keep USG's, CK's, and AP's in stock!

Here's an older pic of one of the walls of our stockroom...we keep a few UBNT things around....
We try to keep at least 2-3 switches of each model, and near 1/2 dozen of the popular model APs. Couple of each of the gateways.

 

[thecomputerguy]

Here's an older pic of one of the walls of our stockroom...we keep a few UBNT things around....
We try to keep at least 2-3 switches of each model, and near 1/2 dozen of the popular model APs. Couple of each of the gateways.
View attachment 11922

Wow nice!

Do you work with the LR's or only the AP Pros for that style of AP?

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Do you work with the LR's or only the AP Pros for that style of AP?

Pros mostly...although been doing the NanoHD models for "new installs" which are its replacement.
I pretty much avoid the LRs and Lites. Half of the equation is the TX power of the clients. They can't yell loud enough to be heard at long distances or through obstacles, so....I prefer "more APs at lower TX power" approach.

 

[thecomputerguy]

Pros mostly...although been doing the NanoHD models for "new installs" which are its replacement.
I pretty much avoid the LRs and Lites. Half of the equation is the TX power of the clients. They can't yell loud enough to be heard at long distances or through obstacles, so....I prefer "more APs at lower TX power" approach.

Does any POE switch that is 802.3af compatible power most of the AP's properly? Obviously a Ubiquiti POE Switch is ideal but they are pricy.

Also is there a middle ground when it comes to powering the AP? like it gets enough power to turn on but the signal is garbage due to power shortage?

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

The Pros and the Nanos are AF....so, on paper, any switch capable of standardized af POE at the ports should work.
https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000263008-UniFi-Supported-PoE-Protocols

Now...the beauty of the Unifi controller is how it "touches all devices" to manage things. Whip up VLANs, assign profiles to ports, manage and monitor clients and traffic, it does that with the APs, switches, and gateways. For most of our clients we use the switches and APs...as we use Untangle for most gateways. You'd be giving up so much of your ability to manage the network easily and quickly if you use other brand switches. And then you might run into that chance of "incompatible products...even though on paper it should work" thing. After spending hours or days ripping your hair out trying to fix something..just cuz the client had a low budget and tried to save 30 bucks. I like to know things work together...so I usually try to stay in the same brand/family of products.

Honestly I don't find their POE switches expensive. The features you get....so excellent!

 

[thecomputerguy]

The Pros and the Nanos are AF....so, on paper, any switch capable of standardized af POE at the ports should work.
https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000263008-UniFi-Supported-PoE-Protocols

Now...the beauty of the Unifi controller is how it "touches all devices" to manage things. Whip up VLANs, assign profiles to ports, manage and monitor clients and traffic, it does that with the APs, switches, and gateways. For most of our clients we use the switches and APs...as we use Untangle for most gateways. You'd be giving up so much of your ability to manage the network easily and quickly if you use other brand switches. And then you might run into that chance of "incompatible products...even though on paper it should work" thing. After spending hours or days ripping your hair out trying to fix something..just cuz the client had a low budget and tried to save 30 bucks. I like to know things work together...so I usually try to stay in the same brand/family of products.

Honestly I don't find their POE switches expensive. The features you get....so excellent!

Ok I was asking because I had to use 3 TP Link 802.3 5P POE switches on the jobsite. I didn't want to daisy off the secondary on the AP pro because it was only a single run. Ideally theyd have at least two Cat5 runs per location but both were single runs with other equipment that needed network.

In the controller the AP showed up as ADOPTING[WIRELESS] which had me confused since they were clearly hardwired and connected to the network through my 802.3af TP Link switch. I was afraid they weren't getting enough power and were somehow being used as a bridge.

After they were adopted and the firmware was updated they worked fine and the stats showed a Wired Link not a Wireless Link.