Uncollected Computers - Legality of selling them on?

[Simmy]

We currently have 3 computers that have not been collected by customers, all of which have been sat around for at least 5 months. We've tried phoning them and in some cases the customer has said they'll collect it but they never do. I've had issues like this in the past and I've simply sold them on after having the equipment for at least a year. But we want to try and do it properly now and include our procedure for cases like this in our terms and conditions.

We were planning to do the following:

1) Contact the customer twice via recorded letter stating where the item is located, how they can contact us and how much money is owing for the repair/diagnosis (at the 3month and 6 month mark). Making them aware that any data may be lost if they do not collect it (We will most likely take an image of the hdd and wipe it before selling it on but we're not sure about this side of things). We will also attempt to contact them via phone. If after 6 months they still haven't collected it, we simply sell it on.

2) We make it known that if a computer remains uncollected for 3 months, we start charging storage costs (something like £15/week) thereafter. This should guarantee that they don't try and collect the laptop a year later as they'll have a pretty hefty bill to pay

Is what we're proposing legal in the UK? Does anyone else adopt a similar policy?

 

[OldSchoolPC]

I am in the U.S.. If the client had a balance (which is usually why they didn't come to get it) they are different laws that apply. For one thing, technically they committed theft of service. Secondly, after a "REASONABLE" amount of time properties can be sold in order to settle the balance due (assuming balance is undisputed). So after say 6 months, you can sell the computer to satisfy the bill, however money left over, if any, belongs to the clients legally. On the other hand if you have SIGNED terms as you said, of say $1 per day after 10 days, then you can actually sell it after 6 months (depending on jurisdiction) because it is believed to be abandoned. But, good luck getting that dollar a day back up until that six month mark. I am no lawyer of course, and it's different in certain states/countries of course.

 

[Dogzilla]

What we have to do, to abide by the law, is the following.

Contact the client by recorded / special delivery. We must have a signature, so special is better. This is after a couple of weeks of no answer. Then again at the 3 month mark, giving them a further 3 months to collect and pay.

If you have still not received contact by the 6 month mark, you have to do the same again. Giving them a further 28 days.

If after those extra 28 days, you have still not heard off them, you are then in a position to sell the computer.

All drives have to be zero'd, and then windows reinstalled from scratch. You can if you so wish make a image of the drive, but that is not compulsory.

If its a residential client, you are NOT allowed to charge ANY storage fees what so ever. Even if its in your terms and conditions.

The only way you can charge storage charges is for a business client. And then you have to have a signature showing they have read the terms and conditions.

This is direct from Consumer Direct. I had a similar problem a couple of years ago. Mine was a neighbour who lives 6 doors away!. I still had to do the special delivery.

 

[K007]

Cool, didn't know about the last 28 days notice... good to know.
Your neighbour only 6 doors away and you had to do special delivery mail?
I would've knocked at his door every Sunday morning at 8 AM to remind him lol

 

[Dogzilla]

Yep tell me about it. I have their laptop in for over 7 months, with a screen repair. Waiting for them to pay me £120!. Problem is, these clients are alcoholics, and don't remember one day to the next. I eventually got paid after 7 months. I sent them a final reminder, after the 28 days, saying that if it wasn't collected and paid for in 5 days, it would be sold.

One major problem, is the laptop wasn't even theirs, it belonged to her sister!.

 

[PBComputer]

This was something I was going to look into next week. Thanks for info

 

[nesrinamb]

In California the rule is 90 days then it becomes your property.

When it comes to collecting and notifying the customer my procedure is something like this.

1 phone call once the computer is finished
1 phone call 1 week after if they still haven't picked it up plus an email

and then a second email and phone call on day 30 with a link to the sate law that has the 90 day policy.

Day 60 certified letter that on day 91 it will be put up for sale at fair market value and the current amount that is due

Day 85: Email and phone call stating the computer will be put up for sale within 5 days.

Day 91: computer is put up for sale at market value

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

I ran this by my attorney and they said it properly notices the customers.

We post on our wall our policies 1. We are not responsible for your data even if we are hired to back it up and loose it. 2. All sales are final. 3. Any equipment left 14 days or longer will be considered abandoned and no other notice shall be given.

A few other policies in there and that is it. The sign is 2' X 3' and it has a date that it was posted back in Aug 2, 2003 (so no one can say it wasn't there).

So we do our diag, or repair as authorized and then we notice them it is ready for pickup. The clock starts after each contact.

Although it is our right to confiscate the property after 14 days we often send out a post card saying final warning. and we leave a phone message as well as email if we have their email. We notate on the work order the times and dates of each of these activities and then after 30 days total time in the shop we fix it and sell it or send it off to our recycle-rs.

The thing is we sometimes work on 400 computers a month. If they were to stay here 10 days we would be up to our eyeballs in computers. So we run a very tight ship as far as computers go. We have separate shelves setup waiting for diagnosis, waiting for customer authorization (after diag), waiting for parts (very few we do not have parts for-mostly laptops), or waiting to be picked up by customer. Then we have a shelf "owned by CFI" to be refurbished and put out for sale. This is the recycled pc's and confiscated pc's resting place. When we are slow we work on them and get them on the sales floor.

We run two stores in Kansas as well as two more stores in California and I have never heard of the 90 day rule. Can you direct me to some government website so I can update my knowledge and get with California's program? Thank you.

 

[emsbronco]

Each state or country may have different rules. I couldn't find anything in my state (NY), so I contacted the State Comptroller, who handles unclaimed property. One of their lawyers called me back and explained that NYS does not have any specific laws for unclaimed physical property in for repair. The only unclaimed property laws that this state attorney knew about was for unclaimed financial property, unclaimed safe deposit boxes, and unclaimed dry cleaning. He told me that he gets about a call a week from various people about unclaimed property and he usually recommends sending a return receipt letter and giving them a set amount of time before disposing, this way there is proof that you tried to contact them.

My sign and the contract wording on my receipts all say property is abandoned if not picked up within 30 days of completion of repair. I have 4 systems sitting on the bench right now that are all 5+ months old and all have multiple phone calls logged into my POS system. So, I am going to send a certified mail return receipt letter giving 28 days to pick up and pay, then I will wipe the drives and sell them as refurbs.

 

[pceinc]

I don't know the law and never asked an attorney about this but this is what I have been doing for 15 years.

1) If I think the computer is a piece of junk and there is a chance it will be abandoned I make the customer pay diag fee upfront. If I know the system has viruses I make them pay our flat rate for virus removal. If they have something in it when leaving it off they are less likely to forget about it. Sometimes we even tell people who don't want to fix a laptop that we will take the laptop in lieu of diagnostic fee.

2) We make a point of calling customers every other day to remind them to pickup their computer. Once we are beyond the 2 week mark we remind them of our policy to "dispose" of their computer after 30 days. Once we hit 30 days we send a certified letter that we have attempted to contact them several times and their computer will be put up for sale or parted out to cover the balance due on their invoice.

3) Sell it!

We have only ever had to sell or recycle about a dozen machines over the years. Most people eventually pickup their computers. We have had several instances where we had parts of value such as hard drives and memory in the repair. If the repair has been sitting for 30 days we'll pull the parts out and let the customer know we are disposing of their computer. If they want it they need to come and get it asap.

 

[DavidF]

The laws in my state say that if an item is left for six months then it is mine to dispose of.
The reason I know this is because I was contacted by the lawyer aunt of a twenty something year old customer who did some time and came back 8 months later wanting her laptop back.
I've also checked with our office of fair trading online and it couldn't be made any clearer.
Just to sure I ran it past my lawyer brother in law.
This is clearly stated on our T&C as well.
We destroy the drives of any computers being disposed of.
The storage fee sounds like a good idea to deter the ones that really want to make a scene.

 

[red12049]

The laws in my state say that if an item is left for six months then it is mine to dispose of.
The reason I know this is because I was contacted by the lawyer aunt of a twenty something year old customer who did some time and came back 8 months later wanting her laptop back.
I've also checked with our office of fair trading online and it couldn't be made any clearer.
Just to sure I ran it past my lawyer brother in law.
This is clearly stated on our T&C as well.
We destroy the drives of any computers being disposed of.
The storage fee sounds like a good idea to deter the ones that really want to make a scene.

Apparently not too successful a lawyer. Lost at least two cases.

Rick

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

Apparently not too successful a lawyer. Lost at least two cases.

Rick

I think Law is a bit like baseball. You can get a 500 (out of a thousand) and be considered a hero.

 

[nightkingdoms]

This is the claim ticket I give them when they drop off their computer or I pick it up. A smaller version with just the barcodes and number is attached to each thing they give me (e.g. case, cords, CD's, monitors, etc.). I have no idea what the laws are in my state because you can't get a clear answer from anywhere.

I just decided in my terms to do it this way: After 30 days, they get a retroactive $3/day storage fee starting from when the work was finished. After 90 days they sell it to my company for the outstanding balance of their account. Which, after the initial charges, the storage fees and late fees, would probably balance out anyway. ($120 original ticket, $270 storage fees, $97.41 in late fees = $487.41 total due at 90 days. Average 1 year old desktop computer has a value between $457-475.)

I just see it this way... If they gave you their computer, you can prove they gave you permission to take custody of it (you really should have that in writing) so they can't say it was theft. If they haven't claimed it after 90 days, you sell it. They turn around and sue you, you file a counter suit against them for the account balance. If their computer is the average one as pointed out above, the judge will pretty much call it even and enter judgment for you if they owed more than it was worth, or you cut them a check for the small difference.

 

[pceinc]

I posed this question to my attorney while doing some work for him today and this is what he found for Maryland law. He is pulling case information where this was applied to a case in MD for a computer repair business.

§ 16-302. Lien for repair of goods.

(a) Creation of lien.- Any artisan who, with the consent of the owner, has possession of goods for repair, mending, improving, dry cleaning, laundering, or other work which includes storage of goods in the case of a dry cleaner or launderer, has a lien on the goods for the costs of the work done.

(b) Sale of goods.- If the costs which give rise to the lien are due and unpaid 90 days after the work is completed or in the case of a dry cleaner or launderer goods are due to be retrieved from storage, the artisan may sell the goods to which the lien attaches at public or private sale. The artisan, launderer, or dry cleaner shall post a notice in a conspicuous place on the premises to the effect that clothing must be retrieved in 90 days or it will be subject to sale, after notice.

(c) Notice of sale or disposal.- The artisan shall give at least 30 days notice before any sale or disposal to the owner by mailing the notice to the owner at his last known address. If the owner's address is unknown, the notice may be given by:

(1) Posting it on the door of the courthouse or on a bulletin board in the immediate vicinity of the door of the courthouse of the county in which the work was done;

(2) Publishing it once a week for two successive weeks in one or more newspapers of general circulation in the county in which the work was done; or

(3) (i) Posting it at the artisan's place of business in a plain and prominent manner, provided that the notice is imprinted on a sign that is clearly visible and states that the goods may be sold on or after 90 days from the day the work is completed; and

(ii) Imprinting the notice on the receipt or invoice given to the owner or the owner's agent.

(d) Application of proceeds.-

(1) The proceeds of the sale shall be applied, in the following order, to:

(i) The expenses of the sale; and

(ii) The amount of the lien claim.

(2) After application of the proceeds in accordance with paragraph (1) of this subsection, any remaining balance shall be paid to the owner of the goods.

(e) Disposal of goods as alternative to sale.- As an alternative to (b) and (c) above, if the costs which give rise to the lien are due and unpaid 6 months after dry-cleaned or laundered goods are due to be retrieved from storage, the dry cleaner or launderer may dispose of the goods in any manner. The artisan, launderer, or dry cleaner shall post a notice in a conspicuous place on the premises to the effect that clothing must be retrieved in 6 months or the goods may be disposed of.

 

[RAPIDsector]

We call customers every 30 days their computers are left in our store. After 6 months, we send a certified letter describing the computer, the repair, the repair cost, and that they have 30 days to pick it up or it will be disposed of. Surprisingly, we have had customers pick up their computers several months after they dropped it off. One customer went to France for a year and never told us they were leaving. They came back a year later and luckily we still had the PC.

 

[Tepin]

My rule of thumb is simple: if I wouldn't recommend a repair I take the money up front. I've had some folks prove me wrong, like the engineer who had me replace the screen and hard drive on a Latitude D800. It turns out that machine supports a 1920x1200 resolution and he honestly couldn't afford a $1000+ replacement right now. He used it in the field to review plans and designs.

It helps that I have inexpensive refurbs available as well. We'll generally perform a document transfer from a broken machine (if it's not the hard drive of course) in exchange for the old machine.

I've only had one machine that was abandoned in the shop for more then 6 months that was worth selling. Of course the same week I put it up for sale the customer came in to claim it. She took the fact that it was out for sale well and since the order was for an OS reload with no backups there wasn't any harm done.

I've cut down on the amount of abandoned laptops by doing a short 5 min diagnostic when it's checked in. If I think it's the motherboard I tell the customer this is a $40 charge to check it in and take it further. I credit the fee towards the cost of repair if they agree to it, but don't currently have a source for MB repair so I advise them of what the total cost is likely to be if I have to replace it.

Edit: Sorry if "necroing" a thread is frowned upon on the forums, I came to this thread via link posted in a similar one and .. got lost?

 

[dominexsus]

When I collect a computer or laptop or if they bring their PC to my shop, I get them sign for my terms and conditions says if they don't pick up the computer with in 90 days, it will be on disposal progress.

I think 90 days fair amount of time. if any less than that still can be done but several times I had customers came back for their computer after a month so for me it is better to give them 90 days.

 

[Dogzilla]

You may end up in trouble with trading standards here Dom. What I posted is direct from them.

Consumer law far outweighs any terms and conditions we impose.

 

['putertutor]

This is my policy.

1. After service is complete, contact customer by phone or email to let them know.

2. Call/email back once a week for 28 days (4 weeks).

3. After 30 days, send notification by certified mail. The letter states that a $2/day storage fee is now being charged and if the device is not picked up after 90 days, I have the right to sell the unit to recover my costs for service and storage. No backup of data will be performed, and any backup that may have been done as part of the requested service will be deleted at that time.

4. Another letter at 60 days, delivery signature required this time.

5. At 90 days a last letter, signature required again, is sent out stating that the device is considered abandoned and will be sold to recuperate my costs.

In practice, I keep the unit for at least 6 months, and the data as long as I have space available, but also at least 6 months. Emails and phone calls happen continuously throughout this process. I've only ever had one customer get all the way through this process without ever contacting me. Still don't know what happened to that guy.