Thinking About Switching From Legion 5 Pro To MacBook Pro M1 Pro

[Appletax]

Last year, I sold my big gaming rig I built in 2014. It had an EVGA 1080 Ti FTW3. I wanted a gaming laptop instead.

Was gonna blow $3,000 on an Alienware, but discovered the Lenovo Legion 5 Pro for the delicious price of $1399 (in-store only @ Walmart). That's a great price for a PC with a 3070! I realized that it's totally not worth it to pay a premium for an Alienware, and totally not worth it to get the 3080.

I really liked it, until recently.

1. I've been getting BSODs due to the Lenovo ACPI-Compliant Virtual Power Controller. Uninstalled it, disabled it, disabled driver updates to it with Group Policy.
2. Screen burn-in / image retention.
3. Fans on more than normal.
4. Windows 11 is buggy on it (it has Windows 11 drivers; went back to Win 10 same day).
   1. Slow to load during initial setup, whereas Win 10 is fast to load the whole time.
   2. Formatting drives with Disk Management leaves them in a RAW format (WTF!) This happens on other systems, too.
   3. Louder fans.
   4. Goes to sleep even though I have it set not to.
   5. BSODs with that driver installed.
   6. It's absolutely in beta until at least a little while after the big upcoming fall update. I wouldn't even want it on a brand new laptop that ships with 11.
5. The screen, at 500 nits, is not bright enough during the day. It's not true HDR. It's good, but would like a screen that blows my mind.
6. Started using my Samsung T5 with USB-C. Works fine on other laptops, does not work right with my laptop. It shows up in the media ejector, but can't even see it in DiskPart or Disk Management.
7. Ethernet cables do not snap into place, so they are easy to remove.
8. Some keyboard LEDs are the wrong color. One in particular is often red, depending on which color I choose.
9. Battery is always 95 or 96%.
10. Sometimes the mouse cursor freezes.
11. Recently did a Nuke and Pave and I seem to have permanently lost Dolby Vision.
12. The BIOS has major mouse lag.

Sick of having issues with Windows PCs. I had a Mid-2014 MacBook Pro that was amazing to use, but it was getting old and Monterey doesn't support it, so I sold it last year.

I am thinking about going back to one. I loved that it just always worked and was so easy to setup! It NEVER crashed in all the years I owned it! The screen is much nicer than my 7-years older laptop. Time Machine is amazing! Awesome keyboard. Best touchpad (Legion 5 Pro made w/ plastic, not glass). I really miss the built-in Photos app as it works well and is easy-to-use.

I am really drooling over the MacBook Pro 14-Inch M1 Pro with 512GB.

I so badly want that 1,0000 - 1,600 nits microLED 254 PPI ProMotion 120Hz display Drool, drool, droooool!!!!

Very few Windows laptop have a screen that nice. Asus is coming out with a Nebula HDR microLED QHD display on the ROG Zephyrus Duo 16 (2022) GX650, but that's gonna be way more expensive than a Mac (and less PPI)! And, I have had too many issues with Asus quality.

The Legion 5 Pro has a pixel density of 189 PPI, whereas the MBP 14" has 254 PPI. Lots of people say higher resolutions on laptops do not make much of a difference, but they totally do in my experience. This Legion's display is not super sharp. I briefly owned a 2016 Alienware laptop with a 4K display and it was ultra sharp - text and photos looked like magazine quality. A friend had a Nexus 6P phone from 2015 with 518 PPI and it's sharper than my iPhone 13 Pro with 460 PPI. It was just like the Alienware - magazine quality text and images. My eyes are bad (have astigmatism) and I can tell the difference.

I have the iPhone 13 Pro and love it (minus the crappy camera). Apple support is the best I have ever experienced.

The MacBooks are no good for gaming, but I am very interested in GeForce Now 3080 tier, which supports 1600p 120Hz on the new MacBook Pros.

It would probably perform similarly or even better than my mobile 3070 8GB.

I don't game a lot, but when I do, I like to crank up the graphics!

I currently have a 2TB Samsung 980 Pro (got it for an amazing price) and the 512GB SSD it came with. Very overkill for me, especially if I don't need to install any video games. Paying $500 to get to 1TB is insane lol.

I am just so unimpressed with the choices for Windows gaming laptops. So many of them have major flaws and crappy customer service! I wish EVGA and Microsoft made them!

The only no compromises option is Apple. Apple products are like Hondas and Toyotas, whereas Windows are mostly like Chrysler.

This Legion is heavy, bulky, has poor battery life. I don't even bring it anywhere lol. I just love the form factor - having everything all-in-one (I know, I could get a SFF PC.) The MacBook is super lightweight and has the best battery life out there. I would be way more willing to take it somewhere.

I can get the education discount even though I'm not a student.

Just $249 for a super premium 3-year warranty with accidental damage coverage.

Love the Windows UI, but just can't deal with the flaws anymore.

Really hoping Microsoft brings Windows 11 to Apple silicone via ARM support so I can run it without needing Parallels!

Before my warranty expires, I think I'll get a Mac and try to get Lenovo to replace this laptop with a brand new one and then sell it.

I could go years without buying a new laptop because the GeForce Now will be upgraded over time (e.g. 3080 to 4080, etc.) and because the M1 Pro is insanely fast for my usage and should be for a good time.

Might wait for the 2022 model because it'd be nice to not have 1st generation Apple silicone.

Hopefully it will have HDMI 2.1 for output at 4K 10-Bit 120Hz HDR VRR Maybe it already can via Thunderbolt 4? I think it outputs via DisplayPort 1.4. It just can't exceed 120Hz when doing 4K.

 

[sapphirescales]

The MacBook is as repairable as a paper bag. Only an idiot would buy a Mac KNOWING the way they're designed today.

 

[Appletax]

The MacBook is as repairable as a paper bag. Only an idiot would buy a Mac KNOWING the way they're designed today.

3 year warranty. Upgrade every 3 years.

Better than dealing with these crappy Windows laptops.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Windows 11 is NOT ready for prime time. That's most of your problem right there. Rollback to Windows 10 and stay there another year. Is this the laptop that you put in the new SSD and asked about heat sinks? You said it is running fine yet now you complain about the fans running all the time. Hello? I see a connection. You upgraded your laptop beyond specs. Can't be surprised if it is overheating.

 

[Appletax]

Windows 11 is NOT ready for prime time. That's most of your problem right there. Rollback to Windows 10 and stay there another year. Is this the laptop that you put in the new SSD and asked about heat sinks? You said it is running fine yet now you complain about the fans running all the time. Hello? I see a connection. You upgraded your laptop beyond specs. Can't be surprised if it is overheating.

I am already back to 10. I was on 11 for less than a day. It’s beta for at least a year. MacOS major updates aren’t beta quality for that long.

Still have broke USB C ports, still BSODs when that driver is installed, still have image retention, still has malfunctioning keyboard LEDs, etc.

Edit: never had a BSOD with the OEM installation of Windows. Replaced the SSD with the top-of-the-line Samsung 980 Pro and did a fresh install of Windows 10 and then I got BSODs from that driver. I do not think the SSD is to blame. I disabled the drive and the issue is gone. Hopefully it's not detrimental to have it not functioning correctly.

It’s not overheating. I have only browsed the web since installing the SSD. It’s barely getting used. Haven’t played a game in many moons.

Only problem I ever had with my Mac was the anti reflective coating coming off. Apple extended the warranty for that issue to 4 years. They overnighted me a shipping box for it and fixed it ultra fast. The service was amongst the best I have ever received. I don’t think Lenovo is going to take that good of care of me with my issues I have with this laptop.

 

[Appletax]

I have had Samsung Magician logging the status and performance of the drive.

In the last day, the SSD peaked at 48 C. I recently reinstalled Win 10, so the records are short.

Just ran a benchmark on it and it peaked at 58 C, which it says is normal.

 

[phaZed]

To each their own. Financially, it sounds like a horrible deal YoY. Personally, I despise the "rent" mentality that Apple forces you into - as well as the NVIDIA GEFORCE NOW model... it's a recipe for disaster IMO. These strange times, I'm not considering in my assessment.

If gaming is your thing, get a desktop (that isn't a POS) and buy all the things you want with it... It will rival any laptop, 10 fold.

I for one, have never had any issues with my computers since Windows 7... and I do A LOT with them... one of them being the Legion Y545. Rock solid.

 

[Appletax]

To each their own. Financially, it sounds like a horrible deal YoY. Personally, I despise the "rent" mentality that Apple forces you into - as well as the NVIDIA GEFORCE NOW model... it's a recipe for disaster IMO. These strange times, I'm not considering in my assessment.

If gaming is your thing, get a desktop (that isn't a POS) and buy all the things you want with it... It will rival any laptop, 10 fold.

I for one, have never had any issues with my computers since Windows 7... and I do A LOT with them... one of them being the Legion Y545. Rock solid.

I like having the latest iPhone every year, so I don't mind it. Love, love, love having the latest tech when it comes to smartphones and computers.

But, I do want right-to-repair legislation to pass so we can more easily fix our devices. It is absolutely ridiculous that Apple has things like soldered RAM and SSDs, etc. So wrong.

A gaming desktop PC would definitely be the best option for performance per dollar and for quality as you can choose your own parts and easily replace a bad part vs a laptop. Gaming desktop + decent laptop with good battery life. I think the Apple MacBook Air M1 would be amazing and it's "only" $900. It's a lot of computer for the money - amazing performance, display, battery life, best customer service.

A desktop PC with a monitor like the one on the new MacBook Pros would be quite expensive. Would need something like 27"+ 4K 120Hz microLED 1,000 nits+ G-Sync. Big money $$$$$. Or, perhaps, a 42" LG OLED (coming soon-ish) - probably $800+. Would need a really nice warranty that covers burn-in.

 

[sapphirescales]

these crappy Windows laptops.

Don't buy a crappy laptop then and you won't have these problems. Dell Latitude, HP Elitebook, or Lenovo business class laptops are the way to go.

3 year warranty. Upgrade every 3 years.

That's an extremely expensive way to go. Let's use this scenario:

Base model 16" MacBook Pro ($2,500)
Applecare ($400)

So you're in the hole for almost three fricking grand. Let's say you use it for 3 years and then sell it for about 1/2 of it's value ($1,200). That's still $1,700 for only 3 years of use. Spend $1,000 on a decent Dell Latitude, it will have a 3 year next day on-site warranty included for that price, and the computer will easily last 5+ years. Then you sell it for $300. That's $140/year vs. $566/year. The MacBook is 4 TIMES the price even when you factor in resale value. And realistically the Dell will probably last 7+ years. You might have a minor issue or two (probably the battery) after 5 years, but that's cheap and easy to fix.

Apple computers suck. They're WAY overpriced and COMPLETELY unrepairable. Back in the pre-retina days (2012 and older) they were fine but now they're just garbage.

 

[Appletax]

Don't buy a crappy laptop then and you won't have these problems. Dell Latitude, HP Elitebook, or Lenovo business class laptops are the way to go.


That's an extremely expensive way to go. Let's use this scenario:

Base model 16" MacBook Pro ($2,500)
Applecare ($400)

So you're in the hole for almost three fricking grand. Let's say you use it for 3 years and then sell it for about 1/2 of it's value ($1,200). That's still $1,700 for only 3 years of use. Spend $1,000 on a decent Dell Latitude, it will have a 3 year next day on-site warranty included for that price, and the computer will easily last 5+ years. Then you sell it for $300. That's $140/year vs. $566/year. The MacBook is 4 TIMES the price even when you factor in resale value. And realistically the Dell will probably last 7+ years. You might have a minor issue or two (probably the battery) after 5 years, but that's cheap and easy to fix.

Apple computers suck. They're WAY overpriced and COMPLETELY unrepairable. Back in the pre-retina days (2012 and older) they were fine but now they're just garbage.

$1,000 on a Dell Latitude won't get me much, unless I buy used.

Trying to find something comparable to the MacBook Pro.

Went to Dell > view all laptops. Chose QHD or better screens, came up with one business option - a Latitude.

For $2,500, I get: 4 core CPU, 512GB NVME, 4K 60Hz non-VRR, non-HDR 400-nits display, 16GB RAM, 3-years warranty, probably much worse battery life.

For $2,500, I can get a ThinkPad T15g Gen 2 with 8 core CPU, 512GB NVME, 4K OLED 60Hz, 400-nits, 16GB RAM, 3-year warranty.

Not a fan of Acer, HP, or Asus for quality. Would consider HP Elite.

Microsoft Surface Book 3 would be sweet if that display wasn't a measly 400 nits.

To get something comparable to a MacBook seems to require spending just as much if not more.

I am jonesing for microLED 1,000+ nits

 

[sapphirescales]

Trying to find something comparable to the MacBook Pro.

If I were to buy a new laptop right now and was willing to blow $2,500, I'd get an HP Elitebook 850. The HP has features the MacBook could only dream of, like built-in LTE so you can go on the internet anywhere without killing your smartphone's battery or having to fumble with connecting to it every time you open your laptop. It also has NFC and a built-in privacy screen that you can activate with a push of a button. You can customize it with a super bright 1000 nit display and it supports an IR webcam so you can unlock it with your face. You can also add a fingerprint reader for like $9.

It's got expandable RAM and storage so you can put in your own 4TB+ SSD and up to 64GB of RAM. The battery is easily removable and isn't literally GLUED in like the MacBook. A 3 year warranty is included for free but you can upgrade to a 5 year warranty if you want for extra peace of mind. And remember, it's a next day on-site warranty, so you don't have to go to the Apple store and look like a fool to everyone who has a brain if you have a problem with it. A technician will come out to your house next business day and fix it right there for you.

I once had a problem with the 3.5mm headphone jack on my Dell Latitude maybe 5 years ago. I figured I might as well try to get them to cover it even though it was accidental damage, and they did! The technician came out and said "hell no" when he saw that he had to replace the whole motherboard to fix the jack. Instead he just handed me a new laptop on the spot. I got the latest model with every imaginable feature and upgrade for free.

The #1 feature for me though is always on cellular connectivity. I don't want to have to mess with finding public WiFi, and using your smartphone as a hotspot freaking sucks. It times out after so many minutes of inactivity and then you have to re-pair it again, it kills your battery like 4x faster and it makes your phone overheat in your pocket.

And the privacy screen you can turn on and off with the press of a button? PRICELESS! I want to be able to do anything I want on my laptop, including banking, without having to worry about someone looking over my shoulder. And I'm a very private person in general. I don't want people around me to know what article I'm reading or to see my family photos if I'm looking at them.

And of course, the keyboard is also extremely important to me. MacBook keyboard suck (yes, even the new one after Apple FINALLY admitted that the "butterfly" keyboard was a piece of crap and replaced it with a more regular keyboard). Where Apple really used to excel was their trackpads, but modern business class trackpads are even better nowadays. I'm still using an old 7th gen i5 series HP Elitebook x360 and it's trackpad is SO much better than the MacBook and I'm sure they've gotten even better since then.

No, the ONLY reason to buy a Mac is because you want a status symbol. It's the second-worst computer you can buy. The worst one being, of course, a Microsoft Surface device.

 

[Appletax]

If I were to buy a new laptop right now and was willing to blow $2,500, I'd get an HP Elitebook 850. The HP has features the MacBook could only dream of, like built-in LTE so you can go on the internet anywhere without killing your smartphone's battery or having to fumble with connecting to it every time you open your laptop. It also has NFC and a built-in privacy screen that you can activate with a push of a button. You can customize it with a super bright 1000 nit display and it supports an IR webcam so you can unlock it with your face. You can also add a fingerprint reader for like $9.

It's got expandable RAM and storage so you can put in your own 4TB+ SSD and up to 64GB of RAM. The battery is easily removable and isn't literally GLUED in like the MacBook. A 3 year warranty is included for free but you can upgrade to a 5 year warranty if you want for extra peace of mind. And remember, it's a next day on-site warranty, so you don't have to go to the Apple store and look like a fool to everyone who has a brain if you have a problem with it. A technician will come out to your house next business day and fix it right there for you.

I once had a problem with the 3.5mm headphone jack on my Dell Latitude maybe 5 years ago. I figured I might as well try to get them to cover it even though it was accidental damage, and they did! The technician came out and said "hell no" when he saw that he had to replace the whole motherboard to fix the jack. Instead he just handed me a new laptop on the spot. I got the latest model with every imaginable feature and upgrade for free.

The #1 feature for me though is always on cellular connectivity. I don't want to have to mess with finding public WiFi, and using your smartphone as a hotspot freaking sucks. It times out after so many minutes of inactivity and then you have to re-pair it again, it kills your battery like 4x faster and it makes your phone overheat in your pocket.

And the privacy screen you can turn on and off with the press of a button? PRICELESS! I want to be able to do anything I want on my laptop, including banking, without having to worry about someone looking over my shoulder. And I'm a very private person in general. I don't want people around me to know what article I'm reading or to see my family photos if I'm looking at them.

And of course, the keyboard is also extremely important to me. MacBook keyboard suck (yes, even the new one after Apple FINALLY admitted that the "butterfly" keyboard was a piece of crap and replaced it with a more regular keyboard). Where Apple really used to excel was their trackpads, but modern business class trackpads are even better nowadays. I'm still using an old 7th gen i5 series HP Elitebook x360 and it's trackpad is SO much better than the MacBook and I'm sure they've gotten even better since then.

No, the ONLY reason to buy a Mac is because you want a status symbol. It's the second-worst computer you can buy. The worst one being, of course, a Microsoft Surface device.

Wow, thanks for all that info.

Sadly, the HP 850 tops at at 4 cores. A 5G modem is $400 lol. You'll need to spend more money each month on service because it needs its own data plan vs sharing your phone's data plan. The 1000 nits option is only 1080p.

My laptop just crashed again. AMD's cpumetricsserver.exe (part of Radeon software) keeps causing it. It appears that upgrading to AMD's beta GPU drivers may fix it.

The strange part is that I have my mux switch off (or on?) - hybrid mode off - which makes AMD's Radeon software go away - can't even see the AMD iGPU in Device Manager.

I think I really screwed the pooch when I Nuked and Paved this laptop. Doubt the 980 Pro is to blame. That thing is top-of-the-line.

Edit: I have PCIe 3.0, so the SSD is bottlenecked - it can only perform at less than half its speed, which means it should not get overly warm. More speed = more work = higher temps.

 

[fincoder]

HP 850 tops at at 4 cores

HP ZBook is their business grade graphics workstation laptop. I use one at home, just for the storage options and build quality. Unfortunately I bought a new one a year ago with Intel 7th gen (discount price for older model, didn't need bleeding edge performance). Not officially supported with Windows 11!

 

[Appletax]

HP ZBook is their business grade graphics workstation laptop. I use one at home, just for the storage options and build quality. Unfortunately I bought a new one a year ago with Intel 7th gen (discount price for older model, didn't need bleeding edge performance). Not officially supported with Windows 11!

Those are nice. I configured one with a 4K 120Hz 600 nits display and it’s around $4K

 

[sapphirescales]

Sadly, the HP 850 tops at at 4 cores. A 5G modem is $400 lol. You'll need to spend more money each month on service because it needs its own data plan vs sharing your phone's data plan. The 1000 nits option is only 1080p.

You need to chat with HP to get hidden configurations. They have more options than what they show on their site. And only an idiot (or someone whos company is paying for it so they don't care) pays what the OEM asks for stuff like RAM, SSD, and LTE modems. You can get a decent LTE modem for $100 if you take 2 minutes to install it yourself. And they want $1,000 for 64GB of RAM LOL. If you're dumb enough to pay that then you shouldn't be buying such an expensive computer.

I'm sure they offer faster processors and higher resolution displays with 1000 nits. But honestly, you want a 1080p display. You get better battery life and you can't really tell the difference between 1080p and 4k on such a small screen unless you put your eyeball 2" away from the screen. When it comes to the screen, what matters is color accuracy, contrast ratio, etc. Resolution doesn't matter unless the screen is really big (I'm talking like a big screen TV). Of course, you don't want a 1366 x 768 resolution on a 15" laptop because there's just not enough screen real estate at that resolution and you can see the pixels when you're up to 6" away from the screen.

4K resolution on laptops just gets scaled anyway, and it kills your battery faster. It's a complete waste. And 120Hz? Unless you're into competitive gaming, that's a waste too.

And as @fincoder said, the ZBooks are even higher end if you want something insane. I personally want something thin and light, so the ZBooks aren't very appealing to me.

 

[overburnz]

The MacBook is as repairable as a paper bag. Only an idiot would buy a Mac KNOWING the way they're designed today.

The BIG difference is that mac computers are more reliable then any windows machine, i have had windows for several years and switched to MacBook in 2017 and never went back

 

[Appletax]

The BIG difference is that mac computers are more reliable then any windows machine, i have had windows for several years and switched to MacBook in 2017 and never went back

I had a MacBook Pro so I know what it's like to own one. It was mostly awesome. There were things about macOS that I wanted to be more like Windows, but I didn't explorer ways to modify them as I rarely used the laptop because I liked being on my beast gaming desktop.

One thing that comes to mind: when I open the properties for multiple items, it doesn't group them together - it opens properties windows for all items. Also, browsing through photos with Photo Viewer and the arrow keys is weird.

The best thing about owning Apple products is the warranty. I have never spoke to an overseas salesperson or technician! I have always spoke with someone that speaks English as their first language. Amazingly easy to understand. They are always so friendly and helpful. I can text them with iMessages and get someone very quickly. They took super good care of me when my MacBook's screen needed to be replaced under warranty. Very quick service. They didn't make me pay for shipping!!!!! Freaking AWESOME. No damn BSODs/crashes/kernel panics, etc. I never had any reliability/performance issues with macOS. That **** is rock solid in my experience!

I prefer Windows over macOS for the interface, but the reliability issues are a huge flaw that turns me to macOS.

The fact that Microsoft Surface devices are considered to be amongst the most inferior devices is very concerning. You'd think Microsoft devices + Microsoft Windows would be an amazing experience like Apple products + Apple OSs.

I've had iPhone X, 11 Pro, 12 Pro, and 13 Pro. Always amazing, except for the quality of the camera, especially with the iPhone 13 Pro. Best resale value, best software support (like 5-6 years of updates), etc.

I so wish Apple made gaming laptops and desktops lol. Run Windows boot camp on them for gaming.

P.S., you misspelled "technician" in your signature lol.

 

[Appletax]

Grrr

 

[sapphirescales]

The BIG difference is that mac computers are more reliable then any windows machine

I'm sorry but that's just bullsh*t. I still have an Acer laptop that I use almost every day from 2007. Came with Windows Vista. It now runs Windows 10 with an SSD. There's nothing special about Apple laptops other than the fact that they use a different OS. Unless of course you're comparing some piece of crap $200 Walmart laptop to a MacBook, in which case that's an idiotic comparison. Though I bought my Acer laptop back in 2007 for $700 (back then that was really cheap for a laptop) so that's not always the case.

Apple has had more problems and recalls than any other computer. The 2011 models had the GPU issues, the 2009 - 2012 non-retina models had issues with the HDD cables, the 2012-2015 retina models had issues with delamination, the 2016-2019 models had issues with the keyboard, etc. I could go on. These are just the issues that Apple has publicly admitted to and issued a recall for. There are many others.

 

[sapphirescales]

The best thing about owning Apple products is the warranty. I have never spoke to an overseas salesperson or technician! I have always spoke with someone that speaks English as their first language.

You get the same treatment with Dell or HP business class computers. The reason for this is the margin. There's like a 2% profit margin on disposable garbage consumer grade laptops. Apple laptops and business class laptops on the other hand have MUCH higher margins, so they can afford to pay their call center employees more than $0.14/hour.