Sychronised clone

[Moltuae]

What would be the best syncing software solution for this application? ....



2 Windows 7 machines, where one is a clone of the other (except for the Windows licence key, of course). They're at different sites, but connected via VPN over an uncontended 100/40 fibre BB each end.

The two computers will be used continuously and at the same time. All the Windows user accounts will be used at both sites, but the same user will never be logged in at both sites.

Ideally, I'd like to be able to sync everything, effectively ensuring that the clone remains a clone, but I suspect that's not possible/feasible. As a minimum, I need to sync each user's documents, desktop files/shortcuts and some app data such as Thunderbird profile folders. It would be great if user preferences could also be synced, such as file extension associations, but that's not essential.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

 

[PCS]

Redirect user folders to dropbox

 

[Moltuae]

Thanks for the suggestion.

I'd rather not use a cloud-based solution though. Apart from the unnecessary additional recurring costs, the requirement to upload and then download the data would be less efficient and much slower.

The high-speed connection and VPN means these computers are, to all intents and purposes, on the same LAN, so I'm looking for a LAN peer-to-peer solution.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Google "Roaming Profiles without a Domain Controller"

Even with this method you'll need a file server of some sort to host the profile.

 

[Xander]

I haven't used it but Bittorrent Sync is /like/ Dropbox but uses other PCs on its network for its backups. Synced but cloudless.

 

[Moltuae]

I haven't used it but Bittorrent Sync is /like/ Dropbox but uses other PCs on its network for its backups. Synced but cloudless.

Thanks.

Yeah, I had heard of Bittorrent Sync. I must admit, I'm intrigued by it, and it is something I may look further into for future projects. Doesn't it store the data in a public p2p cloud though, albeit an encrypted one?

I'm not really looking for cloud type storage though (be it a LAN cloud or a WAN cloud), I'm just looking to sync the folders directly over the network. Both computers have full access of each other's 'Users' folder over the LAN and I'd simply like to sync those folders directly using some application that will allow me to specify which sub-folders to exclude/include. I'm just wondering what the most suitable software is for that application.

Google "Roaming Profiles without a Domain Controller"

Even with this method you'll need a file server of some sort to host the profile.

Interesting. I didn't think that was possible. Thanks.

However, that's not really what I'm looking for either.

There's already a server at each end, both of which could be used for implementing roaming profiles, but that would mean the user files would be stored on the server rather than on the 2 PCs. If I use both servers, there's still the matter of how to sync the roaming profiles between servers. And, if I use just one of the servers, profile files would need to be pulled over the VPN on-demand for one of the PCs.

The files ideally need to be local to each of the PCs, but synchronised (over the LAN/VPN) when changes are made, such that both PCs hold an exact copy of all the files in all user accounts.

 

[nlinecomputers]

DFS?

http://blogs.technet.com/b/josebda/...-server-2008-distributed-file-system-dfs.aspx

Never done it. I bet Angry Geek and or YeOldStoneCat have.

 

[Xander]

Doesn't it store the data in a public p2p cloud though, albeit an encrypted one?

"Secure, unlimited file-syncing. No cloud required.

"Your information stays yours.
"Sync never stores your files on servers, so they stay safe from data breaches and prying eyes."

http://www.bittorrent.com/sync

 

[Moltuae]

"Secure, unlimited file-syncing. No cloud required.

"Your information stays yours.
"Sync never stores your files on servers, so they stay safe from data breaches and prying eyes."

I took that to mean that it's effectively a decentralised system, that is most likely (one would assume) implementing P2P technology similar to that of the popular BitTorrent file-sharing system. My guess would be that participating users store fragments of each other's files, effectively creating a decentralised cloud.

Whatever the method though, I think it essentially provides a means of sharing folders between computers (like Dropbox, etc); I can do that already over the LAN/VPN. I'm looking more for something that is either designed for sharing/syncing Windows user profiles or some syncing software that will allow me to sync the parent user folder while creating exclusions for any child folders/files that probably shouldn't be sync'd (such as ntuser.dat).

DFS?

http://blogs.technet.com/b/josebda/...-server-2008-distributed-file-system-dfs.aspx

Never done it. I bet Angry Geek and or YeOldStoneCat have.

That's actually really interesting.

I don't know how I haven't heard of DFS before, or at least not that DFS. Here in the UK, DFS also happens to be the name of a tacky, well-known Sofa retailer. Though I suspect the two are unrelated.

I assume you're referring to the DFS Replication feature in particular. Very useful, but again, in this case I'm looking for something that can more intelligently sync the files and folders, or at least allow me to set exclusions/inclusions based on what can and can't be sync'd without breaking Windows.

DFS looks like a neat way to get network shares more organised though. Certainly something I'll be looking at in the future. Thanks.

 

[nlinecomputers]

I am sorry how does DFS NOT do what you are asking. You seem to be so locked on a old style briefcase sync that you can't see the solution in front of you. You want the same set of files in front of a user no matter where he is. A DFS Namespace does that. Same share in both locations with the files moved in the background to both servers and the DFS system presenting the nearest server to the user based on his location at access of the namespace. If you place your roaming profile on the namespace then you get the sync you requested.

 

[Moltuae]

I am sorry how does DFS NOT do what you are asking. You seem to be so locked on a old style briefcase sync that you can't see the solution in front of you. You want the same set of files in front of a user no matter where he is. A DFS Namespace does that. Same share in both locations with the files moved in the background to both servers and the DFS system presenting the nearest server to the user based on his location at access of the namespace. If you place your roaming profile on the namespace then you get the sync you requested.

Don't get me wrong, DFS is a perfectly good suggestion and thanks for suggesting it. I'm not ruling it out to be honest, in fact I'm leaning more towards something like that since there seems to be no easy way to do what I was originally looking to do.


I was hoping to keep each of the user's files in situ (since there are around 20 users) and find some way to sync the files where they are.

I suspect I'll need to relocate each user's profile folders instead, then sync the parent folder that holds them.

 

[Markverhyden]

Some more details might help.

The way I see it you have two issues. Data preservation and operational continuity. Many of the options mentioned can take care of the data part. But what about the OS getting hosed, malware, etc? Is downtime of a day or more be acceptable to the customer?

One option to ensure minimal down time might be to use VM's. There are many more options when you look at that scenario.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Actually a terminal server might be a better solution. Take your desktop anywhere.

 

[Moltuae]

I'm actually already using both VMs and Terminal Services (well, RDP).


To be honest, I was intentionally holding back details because all I'm essentially aiming to do is keep 2 Windows machines in sync. The reality is that the two Windows machines are in fact VMs that are operated over RDP. The VMs connect directly to the LAN though (ie bridged), so the fact that they're VMs is not that important, for syncing purposes at least.

Ok, here's a very simplified diagram of the setup, with network hardware omitted for clarity:

I've started moving and manually selecting the user folders now that need to be sync'd, so that it's just a simple case of syncing folders over the VPN. I think that's the way I'll probably end up going with this.

Originally I was hoping that there might be some software available that could do this without the need to manually select/move folders first and, preferably, software that could also keep user settings in sync too.

The aim is to have two identical VMs with identical sets of user files locally stored, for speed of access. Desktop users at site 1 will usually RDP into the VM at site 1 and desktop users at site 2 will usually RDP into the VM at site 2. In the event that a server or VM is down, the RDP connection script will automatically detect this and switch users over to the other site.

As for data preservation and operational continuity: As well as the built-in VM redundancy, the VMs are backed up nightly with around 10 days retention and some of the more important user data is backed up hourly with about 60 days retention. Backups are created by the server, both internally on RAID1 arrays, and off-site to RAID 1 NAS units.

There are actually a number of VMs at each site (and there will eventually be several), but again, I'm trying to simplify things for the sake of clarity.

I'd rather keep all syncing activity within the organisation. I'm not a big fan of cloud services, if I'm honest. They add a layer of uncertainty in terms of security and reliability, not to mention unnecessary recurring costs. So, assuming there's no way to simply sync 2 Windows machines, including all user's files and preferences, I'll probably just move all the user's files into a parent folder that can be sync'd over the VPN.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Started replying to this the other day...but got distracted by several hundred shiny lights zipping by (helluva hectic week).

Desktop, My Docs, My Pics, Favorites, etc...easily handled with folder redirection.
Performance kept well since it's under terminal server and there's an ~30 meg VPN tunnel.

Although I don't like roaming profiles...you can mix this in to help with "some" of the preferences...since that now includes parts of the HKCU registry. having the roaming profiles stored on a server on the same leg of the WAN as the terminal server will ensure decent login performance.

I don't know what LOB app is in there...if there's any unique preferences to be copied there.

That thunderfart e-mail client though...someone decided to play a very cruel joke on you by asking you to support some 3rd party residential e-mail client in a business environment like this. The proper implementation here is Outlook to Exchange, or at least some IMAP setup on a standardized e-mail client. I've occasionally setup Thunderbird e-mail but only in a very basic setup without further investigation or even desire to learn about it (since it's residential and I really don't have to know about it). I don't know how well it plays with your e-mail host...if your host supports IMAP, nor how well Thunderbird plays in terminal server environment.

 

[Moltuae]

Started replying to this the other day...but got distracted by several hundred shiny lights zipping by (helluva hectic week).

lol I can relate to that. I seem to have nothing but hectic weeks these days.

Desktop, My Docs, My Pics, Favorites, etc...easily handled with folder redirection.
Performance kept well since it's under terminal server and there's an ~30 meg VPN tunnel.

Although I don't like roaming profiles...you can mix this in to help with "some" of the preferences...since that now includes parts of the HKCU registry. having the roaming profiles stored on a server on the same leg of the WAN as the terminal server will ensure decent login performance.

I don't know what LOB app is in there...if there's any unique preferences to be copied there.

Practically their only LOB app is some POS software (Point Of Sale that is, not Piece Of Sh1t ... though if you were to use if for more than 5 minutes, you'd be forgiven for thinking it stands for the latter). Users log into that application separately and most of its settings/preferences are program user-specific rather than Windows user-specific. Other than that, it's just the usual MS Office, etc.

Anyway, thanks for the suggestions.

That's kind of on the lines of what I was originally thinking of doing, but then I thought: "hey, surely I'm not the first person ever to want to keep a PC sync'd with its cloned derivative; there must be some software that already does this". On the realisation now that there probably isn't, I think I'm going to just keep things simple and not bother trying to sync user preferences. Thinking about it, probably the only preferences likely to change would be file associations and printer defaults. It's probably quicker to sync those and anything else manually than to mess around setting up and maintaining roaming profiles, etc.

That thunderfart e-mail client though...someone decided to play a very cruel joke on you by asking you to support some 3rd party residential e-mail client in a business environment like this. The proper implementation here is Outlook to Exchange, or at least some IMAP setup on a standardized e-mail client. I've occasionally setup Thunderbird e-mail but only in a very basic setup without further investigation or even desire to learn about it (since it's residential and I really don't have to know about it). I don't know how well it plays with your e-mail host...if your host supports IMAP, nor how well Thunderbird plays in terminal server environment.

lol Thunderbird isn't actually that bad. Some earlier incarnations were poor, but these days it's pretty good. It serves their purpose and gives them exactly the features they need, thanks to all the available plugins. It's also extremely easy to migrate or relocate TB profiles, since everything is contained in a single folder, so I'm not concerned about syncing it. In fact, syncing TB should actually be one of the more trivial tasks.