Still no infection

[gunslinger]

You do realize that really has nothing to do with the point I was making. The point I was making is even if its a small chance of an accident why not buckle up because theres really no reason not to. Just like theres no reason not to run an AV. I have a gps tracking app on my phone even though its incredibly unlikely that I will ever lose it or that it would be in a position where it gets stolen but I lose nothing by having that extra protection on there.



Thats obviously not correct. As I explained here: http://www.technibble.com/forums/showthread.php?p=426315#post426315



again what is the point of NOT running an AV? your backups use way more resources.

How do you figure? Nothing runs in the background, I make an image manually and back up data manually. The point of not running it is:

1. It does use system resources, period.
2. Its inconvenient when it tries to delete files I have downloaded or off my flash drives.
3. I have proven I get infected far less than most techs who do run AV so its a waste of time to install and configure one. How could installing one make me more safe than never getting infected?

 

[ComputerRepairTech]

How do you figure? Nothing runs in the background, I make an image manually and back up data manually. The point of not running it is:

1. It does use system resources, period.
2. Its inconvenient when it tries to delete files I have downloaded or off my flash drives.
3. I have proven I get infected far less than most techs who do run AV so its a waste of time to install and configure one. How could installing one make me more safe than never getting infected?

1. everything does? but its not going to effect performance on any dual core system built within the last 8 years.
2. add exceptions.
3. ... seriously? *leaves thread*

 

[gunslinger]

1. everything does? but its not going to effect performance on any dual core system built within the last 8 years.
2. add exceptions.
3. ... seriously? *leaves thread*

1. Maybe you can't tell a difference, but after running so long with no AV I can.

2. Why put up with it? I could use my time to do something productive.

3. I have been infected once in almost 8 years. Are you saying I would have been safer had I been running AV? Other techs on here have gone longer with no infections. How could they be even better off? How would an AV make life butterflies and rainbows? Would they have had -2 infections? How does that work?


Listen, you are a tech. You know what you are doing, correct? Great. If running an AV makes you feel good about yourself, by all means do. But don't try to convince other techs they "need" and AV. This is simply not true. The bottom line is this: If you know what you are doing you are just as safe as you are with an AV , maybe more so because I think you are less likely to do something stupid thinking you are protected.

 

[TenYardFight]

Has anyone yet brought up the fact that using and being familiar with your preferred A.V. makes it easier to sell and support it? You should be adding significant money to your bottom line selling A.V.

 

[gunslinger]

Has anyone yet brought up the fact that using and being familiar with your preferred A.V. makes it easier to sell and support it? You should be adding significant money to your bottom line selling A.V.

Its been mentioned. I do play around with different AVs inside virtual machines I run on my Mac. Just not on my primary work machines.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Just some points I'm curious to the answers to...

Let me preface with a side note...I also can stand up on a chair and announce I've not been infected in XXX amount of years...I think it's been over 12 or 14 years. When I did get infected back then, it was my home rig, my girlfriend at the time had opened up an attachment from her work e-mail, and it had some worm in it that came via Outlook contacts. It was her corporate e-mail (Pfizer), and she kicked herself for not knowing better. I can't remember what OS It was, I fixed it in about 1 minute.

I have run "naked" in the past. Have not in recent years...as installing MSE just takes 30 seconds or so and it's done. And Windows 8 rigs come with it already...so doesn't really use up my time. Even on antiquated hardware (I have a mid-vintage Core 2 Duo with 8 gigs of RAM on a pair of Raptor HDDs)...it runs quite well with Defender.

Anyways...my point is...
*I don't understand how people say "I'm too smart to catch a virus!" Most of in the IT field are aware that the majority of malware these days comes in via the web...good old HTTP. By surfing everyday websites. This includes tech forums, like this one right here. A lot of people say "I know what websites to stay away from, I'm smart!" Uhm...you're here! On a VBulletin website. And I bet you go to other "tech forums". HardOCPs forums were hacked into so many times...I can't count. Malware dumped into its visitors many times. I bet those "tech guys" thought they were too smart to get malware too! Your local banks website. Your local newspapers website!

The only "smart" way to 100% be sure not catch a virus is to not plug in your computer, leave it turned off.

Everyone says "Well I don't go to porn sites...I know where not to go!" That's so 15 years ago! It's everyday normal adult rated G websites that get hacked into with drive-by installs coded into them. And the bigger reasons...streaming advertisements that websites subscribe to. Every day those popular streaming subscriptions get hundreds of poisoned ads put in..and in the minutes it takes for them to find those ads and remove them, too late..thousands of end users computers already saw them..and got exploited by old flash or java or pdf readers.

BTW, many porn sites are safe, my wife hits some several days a week, and we've been together over 7 years, I haven't had to disinfect a computer of hers yet. Her step brother is in that business, she was taught the safe ones.

*I travel places with my laptop. Being in IT, you're surely aware that lots of malware is capable of traveling across LANs...hopping across computers on a network. So if my computer is clean, and your computer is infected..and I put my computer on the same network as your computer...my computer is at risk, it's exposed. Now..this question is moot if you're talking about your home computer, but I'd say over 90% of my "time on a keyboard" is spent on my laptop, traveling from client to client to client to client (onsites)...and using public wifi, AmTrak wifi, airports wifi, internet cafe wifi.

*Dont' forget...the "good malware" goes undetected. Only the poorly written malware lets itself be known.

 

[gunslinger]

Just some points I'm curious to the answers to...

Let me preface with a side note...I also can stand up on a chair and announce I've not been infected in XXX amount of years...I think it's been over 12 or 14 years. When I did get infected back then, it was my home rig, my girlfriend at the time had opened up an attachment from her work e-mail, and it had some worm in it that came via Outlook contacts. It was her corporate e-mail (Pfizer), and she kicked herself for not knowing better. I can't remember what OS It was, I fixed it in about 1 minute.

I have run "naked" in the past. Have not in recent years...as installing MSE just takes 30 seconds or so and it's done. And Windows 8 rigs come with it already...so doesn't really use up my time. Even on antiquated hardware (I have a mid-vintage Core 2 Duo with 8 gigs of RAM on a pair of Raptor HDDs)...it runs quite well with Defender.

Anyways...my point is...
*I don't understand how people say "I'm too smart to catch a virus!" Most of in the IT field are aware that the majority of malware these days comes in via the web...good old HTTP. By surfing everyday websites. This includes tech forums, like this one right here. A lot of people say "I know what websites to stay away from, I'm smart!" Uhm...you're here! On a VBulletin website. And I bet you go to other "tech forums". HardOCPs forums were hacked into so many times...I can't count. Malware dumped into its visitors many times. I bet those "tech guys" thought they were too smart to get malware too! Your local banks website. Your local newspapers website!

The only "smart" way to 100% be sure not catch a virus is to not plug in your computer, leave it turned off.

Everyone says "Well I don't go to porn sites...I know where not to go!" That's so 15 years ago! It's everyday normal adult rated G websites that get hacked into with drive-by installs coded into them. And the bigger reasons...streaming advertisements that websites subscribe to. Every day those popular streaming subscriptions get hundreds of poisoned ads put in..and in the minutes it takes for them to find those ads and remove them, too late..thousands of end users computers already saw them..and got exploited by old flash or java or pdf readers.

BTW, many porn sites are safe, my wife hits some several days a week, and we've been together over 7 years, I haven't had to disinfect a computer of hers yet. Her step brother is in that business, she was taught the safe ones.

*I travel places with my laptop. Being in IT, you're surely aware that lots of malware is capable of traveling across LANs...hopping across computers on a network. So if my computer is clean, and your computer is infected..and I put my computer on the same network as your computer...my computer is at risk, it's exposed. Now..this question is moot if you're talking about your home computer, but I'd say over 90% of my "time on a keyboard" is spent on my laptop, traveling from client to client to client to client (onsites)...and using public wifi, AmTrak wifi, airports wifi, internet cafe wifi.

*Dont' forget...the "good malware" goes undetected. Only the poorly written malware lets itself be known.

Was there a question somewhere in that? Hmmm, lets see. I don't think I'm smarter than everyone else. Apparently there are many other techs that also run their systems without AV and do just fine.


Forums? Been going to them for over 15 years and I'm still good. Lucky I guess.


Porn sites? If I were downloading porn on a regular I'd use a handful of reliable torrent sites and only do it on my Mac. No possibility of infection unless I double click the "Debbie does Dallas" .DMG file and enter my admin password.


Mobile? I use my iPhone or iPad. Again, no possibility of infection.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Was there a question somewhere in that? .

Basically..just, how can you claim to say "I won't get one because I know what I'm doing"...when the opportunity of getting bitten is pretty much everywhere now.

Years ago, claiming "I know better than to open that attachment in the e-mail from FedEx", or "I know better than to visit porn sites", or "I know better than to download torrents and potato click codex to stream that free movie site",..

My question is.."How do <smarts> protect you from getting malware from every day websites?" "How do <smarts> protect your laptop from catching malware at another network you go to?"

No possibility of infection on your iMaxiPad? That's also so "10 years ago"...you know malware has been out for CrApples for several years now, and it's quite out there in the wild. Yes yes..not as popular as Windoze malware...but to claim "no possibility of infection" is ... simply not true.

Yes I know there are other techs that run naked, and I've been guilty of it too, as already stated. But my everyday driver important laptop...nope.
Do you travel with yours? (and if so..often, not just once a year thing) (you didn't answer that)..or is it just your home rig that goes nowhere? If you do travel to other networks often, do you worry about getting infected from malware?

Do you clean clients infested computers on the same network as your naked rig?

 

[gunslinger]

Basically..just, how can you claim to say "I won't get one because I know what I'm doing"...when the opportunity of getting bitten is pretty much everywhere now.

Years ago, claiming "I know better than to open that attachment in the e-mail from FedEx", or "I know better than to visit porn sites", or "I know better than to download torrents and potato click codex to stream that free movie site",..

My question is.."How do <smarts> protect you from getting malware from every day websites?" "How do <smarts> protect your laptop from catching malware at another network you go to?"

No possibility of infection on your iMaxiPad? That's also so "10 years ago"...you know malware has been out for CrApples for several years now, and it's quite out there in the wild. Yes yes..not as popular as Windoze malware...but to claim "no possibility of infection" is ... simply not true.

Yes I know there are other techs that run naked, and I've been guilty of it too, as already stated. But my everyday driver important laptop...nope.
Do you travel with yours? (and if so..often, not just once a year thing) (you didn't answer that)..or is it just your home rig that goes nowhere? If you do travel to other networks often, do you worry about getting infected from malware?

Do you clean clients infested computers on the same network as your naked rig?

"Smarts" protect me because I don't install things I don't trust. I don't open email attachments. I avoid known bad sites. So far this approach has worked great for me and the other techs who don't run AV. Might I be infected with some rouge worm tomorrow? Sure. I could just as easily be infected if I was running an AV. Answer me this: Why is it the techs on here who don't run AV are getting infected about the same or less than the techs who do?


I'm pretty sure the iPad has only been out for about 4-5 years. I'm not sure how that could be "so 10 years ago" Show me an infection in the wild for my iOS device please. I dare you. Please send me an iOS virus! Not an exploit, an actual virus for my iThings. Is there a remote possibility of me getting infected on my iPad? Yeah, about as remote as you winning the lotto 5 times in a row then being struck by lighting on the same days you won each time and live.



Again, I do not currently own a laptop. My mobile devices are the iPad and iPhone. No, I don't connect to random WiFi connections with them, ever.
Normally I don't clean the infected machine on the same network as my work machine, but there have been times when I have. Still infection free. I must be the luckiest person alive.

 

[gunslinger]

As a side note: I was thinking about this last night. There has to be a reason me and other techs like me running no AV don't get infected. It could not be luck because there are just too many of us. So, it has to be one of two things I think.

1. Smart enough to not do stupid things on our work system

2. Magic!


I'm personally leaning toward the second one. I think the magic Apple symbol on my cap wards off the evil viruses.

 

[brandonkick]

As a side note: I was thinking about this last night. There has to be a reason me and other techs like me running no AV don't get infected. It could not be luck because there are just too many of us. So, it has to be one of two things I think.

1. Smart enough to not do stupid things on our work system

2. Magic!


I'm personally leaning toward the second one. I think the magic Apple symbol on my cap wards off the evil viruses.

Define "too many". There are over 7 billion people in the world, and even if you estimate that only .001% of those people are computer techs then you have a lot of people to account for.

To be blunt, its the truth that "bad habits" are not the main cause of infections any more. Most of the bad guys don't want to leave it up to bad habits to infect people, they want more. So they try to sneak it into as many systems as possible, by infecting the most commonly used web sites and services. So if you had been a visitor of say for example the HardOCP forms when it was compromised, then you probably would have been infected.

To say that having anti virus and other security measures in place wouldn't have increased your chances of avoiding that infection are a bit farfetched in my opinion. Then this conversation can take a turn towards nit picking about what percentages those security measures would grant you vs not having them at all. Not really interested in doing that.

However I can leave you with this to think about. I know a particular husband and wife who go on "booze cruises" all the time. They load up in the car with a bunch of beer and ice and head out to drink and drive all around the country side. They have been doing this for at least two or three years now and haven't been pulled over once. IF they do get pulled over, they get a DUI and essentially its probably going to cost them around $10,000. Their are probably people who have been drinking and driving for much longer who haven't been caught. I'm sure their are fewer who have only done it here and there and have paid the price.

On the flip side, I know that while not drinking and driving will ensure you never get a DUI you cannot say the same for running antivirus. You aren't guaranteed to stay infection free. But think of it this way. Instead of boozing and cruising around in a brand new fancy sports car, maybe get an old beat up dodge caravan. Instead of drinking beer and having all of those beer cans, you can mix liquor in gatorade bottles. Maybe keep an air fresher in the car, to try to mask the booze smell. Perhaps you should try not to speed while drinking and driving. Make sure your wearing your seat belt, using turn signals and that you don't have flat tires or burned out headlights. Make sure your inspection and registration are current. That won't get you out of EVERY situation, but it can get you out of some. It will make it a lot less easier for you to get caught. And then you have the DUI checkpoints, those you cannot avoid. But usually no one else can either.

 

[gunslinger]

On the flip side, I know that while not drinking and driving will ensure you never get a DUI you cannot say the same for running antivirus. You aren't guaranteed to stay infection free. But think of it this way. Instead of boozing and cruising around in a brand new fancy sports car, maybe get an old beat up dodge caravan. Instead of drinking beer and having all of those beer cans, you can mix liquor in gatorade bottles. Maybe keep an air fresher in the car, to try to mask the booze smell. Perhaps you should try not to speed while drinking and driving. Make sure your wearing your seat belt, using turn signals and that you don't have flat tires or burned out headlights. Make sure your inspection and registration are current. That won't get you out of EVERY situation, but it can get you out of some. It will make it a lot less easier for you to get caught. And then you have the DUI checkpoints, those you cannot avoid. But usually no one else can either.

You just nailed it for me. I'm already doing all that. (driving a beat up car) nothing critical on my computer thats not backed up, (mix liquor in gatorade bottles) Don't surf bad sites, (using turn signals and that you don't have flat tires or burned out headlights. Make sure your inspection and registration are current) I install all Windows updates as well as flash and Java updates ect.


I'm already doing all all that but still drinking and driving....lol Not drinking and driving would be doing all that and running an AV. Again, I don't recommend people do it especially my clients. The strange thing is most techs didn't used to run AV back when I first started out in the days of Windows 95-98. The guys who really knew what they were doing never ran it. Now it seems everyone is convinced you have to have it.

 

[brandonkick]

You just nailed it for me. I'm already doing all that. (driving a beat up car) nothing critical on my computer thats not backed up, (mix liquor in gatorade bottles) Don't surf bad sites, (using turn signals and that you don't have flat tires or burned out headlights. Make sure your inspection and registration are current) I install all Windows updates as well as flash and Java updates ect.


I'm already doing all all that but still drinking and driving....lol Not drinking and driving would be doing all that and running an AV. Again, I don't recommend people do it especially my clients. The strange thing is most techs didn't used to run AV back when I first started out in the days of Windows 95-98. The guys who really knew what they were doing never ran it. Now it seems everyone is convinced you have to have it.

I think mainly because the bad guys writing this stuff are a lot better at hiding malware and putting it into very commonly used places. It would be like people spraying water fountains down with some type of bio hazardous material. Plenty of people use water fountains on a daily basis, they see no reason to be cautious because it's considered safe. Just as safe as browsing these forums or hopping onto the lottery website to check your quick picks. If those services were to be infected, many users could be compromised.

Again that's not saying an AV would promise you protection, but it's an added layer. You can't be positive it would help, but you can be positive that not having it means it won't help.

 

[gunslinger]

I think mainly because the bad guys writing this stuff are a lot better at hiding malware and putting it into very commonly used places. It would be like people spraying water fountains down with some type of bio hazardous material. Plenty of people use water fountains on a daily basis, they see no reason to be cautious because it's considered safe. Just as safe as browsing these forums or hopping onto the lottery website to check your quick picks. If those services were to be infected, many users could be compromised.

Again that's not saying an AV would promise you protection, but it's an added layer. You can't be positive it would help, but you can be positive that not having it means it won't help.

Tell ya what. If and when I get infected I'll let you know and you and a few others can all tell me you told me so. I'll nuke the system and restore from an image in about 15 mins have a perfectly fine system again. Heck, I'll even post pics.

 

[mikeroq]

I'll admit one of my computers got infected, my work laptop which mingles with other systems, but it has antivirus.

Still going strong on my main PC naked.

 

[gunslinger]

I'll admit one of my computers got infected, my work laptop which mingles with other systems, but it has antivirus.

Still going strong on my main PC naked.

Isn't that interesting? That the machine with the AV got infected in-spite of its magical powers to protect you. Good job on the naked one.



As a side note: I'm going to start a little project. I'm going to start checking infected system cookies that come into the shop. What ever the sites were they were browsing I'm going to make sure to go there in my Windows 7 virtual machine naked in my spare time until I manage to get infected. So far I have been to over 140 sites 100 known to be infected and nothing yet. A lot of asking if I want to save or run the .exe file but no actual infection that a retarded monkey couldn't stop.

 

[Bryce W]

IA lot of asking if I want to save or run the .exe file but no actual infection that a retarded monkey couldn't stop.

Its not really about "You should run sexylady.jpg.exe" anymore.

Many of the infections I see now days are drive-by infections taking advantage of vulnerabilities in the browser, Java, Flash, operating system etc.. They require no user intervention other than going to the site.
Legitimate sites can get infected through their ad networks too.

So "surfing safe" on the internet wont necessarily protect you these days if your software isnt up to date. Hell, even if your software IS fully up to date the bad guys can get you if they are quicker than the update.

 

[gunslinger]

Its not really about "You should run sexylady.jpg.exe" anymore.

Many of the infections I see now days are drive-by infections taking advantage of vulnerabilities in the browser, Java, Flash, operating system etc.. They require no user intervention other than going to the site.
Legitimate sites can get infected through their ad networks too.

So "surfing safe" on the internet wont necessarily protect you these days if your software isnt up to date. Hell, even if your software IS fully up to date the bad guys can get you if they are quicker than the update.

See thats what I'm trying for in the virtual machine. A drive by infection. So far I'm actually finding it hard to infect a naked install of Windows 7 even after going to 140+ sites with known infections. So far the only things I have seen have been easy to avoid by anyone with common sense who can read.

Do you have a site or sites I could go to for a drive by infection?

 

[Rosco]

Apart from MBAM and avast!, did you try other Tools?

[Kaspersky Virus Removal Tool, Hitman Pro, Emsisoft Emergency Kit, AdwCleaner, RogueKiller, Junkware Removal Tool, GMER, Kaspersky TDSSKiller etc.]

i dont have an av on my pcs either. ever 6 or 7 months a run through hitman pro, emisoft, and a few others nothing really comes up maybe a couple tracking cookies but nothing of interest.

 

[gunslinger]

i dont have an av on my pcs either. ever 6 or 7 months a run through hitman pro, emisoft, and a few others nothing really comes up maybe a couple tracking cookies but nothing of interest.

What sorcery is this? Yet another who has evaded the evil viruses and malware. So Rosco, is it simply not doing stupid things on your computer or is it magic?