so frustrated and angry (warning - long post, venting)...

[GeeksInKhakis]

Last Friday afternoon I was soooo frustrated and angry with a customer (and the current cash flow - ie- just making payroll and bills each month) I almost threw in the towel. Just venting, but if you have some good advice, I'll take it, too ...

Bear with me, this may run long...

Customer came in on Tues. with a BSOD on their computer and wanted some diagnostics done and figure out what was wrong with it. We checked it out and found a bunch of viruses and spyware. We called them (married couple) and talked to the husband. Since he didn't say anything, we assumed he could make decisions about it since they both brought it in.

We told them that since it had viruses, that was a very likely cause of the BSOD, but we would HAVE to remove them before we could go any further and told him about our fees for virus/spyware removal, etc. Fast forward 2 days and we've removed the viruses and we also ran some HD/RAM diagnostics (the system froze a couple of times in UBCD when I was trying to remove some files).

Well, the viruses infected the Windows system files and corrupted the registry quite heavily so we opted for an XP repair install. That appeared to work, but XP 'demanded' to be activated before logon and would not show the activation screen. Tried 'normal' tricks there, but still no luck. I could get into 'SAFE mode w/ Command Prompt', so I booted and ran 'combofix', even though I had already scanned it with multiple AV tools. Then I was going to try the Repair install one last time before doing a backup/reload.

Now, Thursday afternoon I'm out of the office and the customer comes in unannounced and demands to know what's going on with their computer. My lead tech (I'm the tech of record on the form) and tells them that it may not be 'fixable', but we can backup their data and reload it. When this happens, we usually 'eat' the AV scan/fix charges and charge for a backup/reload (about the same amount).

Well, they misunderstand this and say now they just want it backed up and put on a drive they are going to buy at some big box store. He explained we had external drives if they wanted that, but they had some line on a 1TB drive for less money. So, now they wanted to only pay for a basic backup after we had done alot of work (at least 5 total hours).

I call on Friday morning and spoke with the wife, who apparently is the one that makes the decisions (because, everything we had been telling the husband did NOT get communicated to the wife). She is under the impression that they never gave the go-ahead to fix the viruses, etc. I explain to her that worst-case, we can still do the backup/reload ($79 + $119) and the cost is about the same as our 'advanced virus removal w/ repair install' ($199), and there is also a HD diagnostics fee of $49. She claims we never told her the fees for virus/spyware removal (which we did, but we told him) and never told her what was going on over the 3 days we had it.

Worse yet, while I'm talking to her and she keeps interrupting me, so I talk more directly. Which, she takes as 'yelling' (which I am not). Then her phone cuts out. I call her back and she immediately accuses me of 'hanging up on her'. I calm her down again and we agree that I'll backup the data and by 5:00p on Friday (this is Friday morning) I'll either a) have the computer repaired or reloaded and she'll owe the full amount or b) put the data on her HD for $79 (backup charge) and the $49 diagnostics.

The whole time, she kept b!tching about our 'lack of communications', which I apologized for and said we would take a look at it, but can we move on with the agreement we now have.

Well, I did a Repair install with an XP SP2 slipstream CD now (first time was SP3) and this works (Not sure if it's the combofix that did it or if it's that with SP2 it walked me through the 'wecome, create users (skipped), activate now' thing instead of bringing up the activation thing after trying to boot up the first time). So, now I spend the rest of the afternoon checking it every 1/2 hour to get updates, etc (we do this online, to ensure that XP is properly getting updates, since viruses can mess with this process).

It's 5:00p and it's just getting done with IE8 update (the last thing I'm going to do) and it's been working fine all afternoon. They come in at 5p on the dot and demand to pick up their computer. I calmly explain that everything looks fine and I need 15 mins to ensure the system is working properly after the IE8 install. Well, that just won't do for her, why isn't it done.

Then she starts going into the whole 'mis-communication' thing, again and again. All the time, she's rolling her eyes whenever I tell her we are sorry if there was some mis-communication. Well, the 15 mins. turns into 30 since they keep calling me up to the counter to ask a bunch of questions like 'how can I avoid viruses forever', etc. (answer - you can't, do you ask your doctor 'how can I never get a cold again?'). All the time, she's still b!tching, even though she's getting a working computer back, no loss of data or programs, in a 'reasonable' timeframe (about a day or two longer than normal) and at a 'reasonable' rate.

She starts going on about how I 'bring in negative energy into my shop and need counseling' and looks at her husband and tells him "I can't counsel him, I just can't do it". I tell her that if she is a counselor then please don't counsel me, because I don't need it, I'm quite happy with myself She says, "if I expect good things, then everything will be work out", that's what she does. That's when I finally realize that nothing will please her and she's in some 'sunbeam and flower-child' world.

Anyway, she leaves, he pays and says 'thanks' and shakes my hand, but...he's not real happy with our communications (again, are you serious!?!?!).

me - "have a good evening, thanks"... then I kicked a cardboard box after they left

 

[BostonGeek1]

Honestly you didn't do anything wrong, that's just how the cookie crumbles sometimes when it comes to flat fees that are stacked together. If you feed people an hourly rate and an estimate they may be a more difficult sell, but they'll actually SELL themselves on the hope it will be on the lower end of the spectrum. So if you know its going to be $199, say $179-$239. Then if there's a problem, write it up for $239 with a 20% discount. People love discounts. Although I would say if this type of work is the cornerstone of your income right now I would start worrying - I honestly can't believe ANYONE is making any money in residential work right now unless they're already an established name - the market is at capacity. I would push towards commercial jobs and working with small business owners in successful industries - law, medical, etc - that appreciate your time, because their time is worth more than yours per hour. All you need is 4-5 clients like that and you can be done with residential work period - or at least do it on your own terms.

 

[NYJimbo]

I may have told this story before, but may as well tell it again.

Across the street from us is a very busy auto repair shop that deals heavily in transmissions. Every couple of weeks I see police cars arrive and always some guy or gal throwing their hands up in the air and a auto repair guy standing across from him with his arms folded.

The cop hangs around for a bit and then leaves, every time it turns out the customer is wrong and has to pay. I have talked to a couple of the repair guys and its always the same, the customer doesnt want to pay and now is making up stories about what was said or agreed on.

We in the computer repair business have to deal with the same crap, it's all the same, just we do computers and they do cars.

It sucks that we have to deal with this kind of thing, but its going to happen to every tech sooner or later and not just once. Every tech should have rules on how to handle this and even mentally run through some "what if" situations and even talk to yourself with possible dialogue so that you are
ready for it before it happens.

 

[14049752]

Not really anything you did wrong, but here's how we try to avoid the situation:

When we call a customer, we always ask for the person that signed our workorder. If they don't answer, or aren't available, we say "This is So-And-So from Such-N-Such. I'm calling about her computer. If you could have her give us a call back at ...."

At that point the customer either takes the message, and I ask for their name....or they say "Oh, ok. What's going on with it?" At that point, if they approve it, I take it to mean that they're able to make that decision.

It's never really been a problem. If the original customer calls in later wondering what's up, I say something like "I spoke to Jim-Bob on the 5th, and left a message for you. He approved of us installing a doodad. At this point, we have the doodad installed and we're running our final tests..."

 

[NYJimbo]

Not really anything you did wrong, but here's how we try to avoid the situation:

When we call a customer, we always ask for the person that signed our workorder. If they don't answer, or aren't available, we say "This is So-And-So from Such-N-Such. I'm calling about her computer. If you could have her give us a call back at ...."

At that point the customer either takes the message, and I ask for their name....or they say "Oh, ok. What's going on with it?" At that point, if they approve it, I take it to mean that they're able to make that decision.

It's never really been a problem. If the original customer calls in later wondering what's up, I say something like "I spoke to Jim-Bob on the 5th, and left a message for you. He approved of us installing a doodad. At this point, we have the doodad installed and we're running our final tests..."

The problem is that they still play games. You still cannot prove who said what, "Jim-Bob" may not have the authority and they will say you shouldn't
have accepted it regardless. However, the reverse can also happen:

We recently had a lady drop off a laptop, but her kids came to pick it up when it was done. When they came they wanted to know if we could add more ram, I told them they had to get their mothers approval. The kids said they had the approval and their mother was not available. I told them I really could not do anything until I spoke to their mom. Well guess what, Mom called late in the day upset that I didnt accept the kids request because they are good kids and I had no reason to not trust them. I tried to explain how we handle this sort of thing and she tries to still blame me for not trusting her kids and now she has to wait another 24 hours to get the machine back with more ram. Anyone would have accepted the way I handled this situation, but not her, I mean they are just kids. She never did admit she was wrong and when she finally picked up the machine she actually said "I would have sent my kids to pick it up now, but I didnt want you to refuse giving it to them". I just politely smiled, took her money, watched her leave and then said "F-ck you a--hole, you are now on our sh-t list" under my breath. We will not take any work from her in the future. I don't need smart asses or any attitude from someone like this. If she was this much of a bitch for this little thing she will likely do something like this in the future, possibly nastier.

 

[Doctor Micro]

Unfortunate, but part of the business

I feel your pain, and both I and some of my techs have been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

My latest was a wife who called me because their PC was getting a lot of popups and "some kind of virus warning" (rogue av/as program... luckily, they didn't click on the link). I explain that it sounds like a malware infection. "How much does that cost?" she asks. "No way to tell for sure," I tell her, "It depends on how bad the infection is and what it takes to get rid of it, but I can tell you that most malware cleanups run around an hour and a half, so at our residental rates, that's $135. Sometimes less, and sometimes more for a very serious/hard to eradicate infection." I explain our minimum charge is 1 hour, she intimates that they don't want to spend a lot of money on the machine. I say fine. I go to the house, fire up the PC, notice it's not connecting to the internet (desktop, using a wireless connection), but observe the popups and VERY slow performance. Fast forward to my lab after taking the machine back with me. It's a relatively new HP Desktop (out of warranty, but about 2yrs old), dual core, 3GB RAM, decent graphics, Wireless G PCI, 160GB SATA 3G HDD. Symantec suite installed, but expired.

Multiple scans later with combofix, Dial-A-Fix (permissions & policy repair)VIPRE Rescue, SpyBot, HiJackThis, it's clean. Since Symantec was expired, and I hate Symantec anyway, I install VIPRE on a 15-day trial (fully featured and active). Take the machine back, fire it up and discover the wireless won't connect. AT&T 2WIRE Modem/Router combo on WEP. User doesn't know/can't remember the WEP key. Grab a 25' Ethernet cable from the jeep, connect directly to the router and demo the machine clean. Connect to the router, ask user what the router password is. User doesn't know/can't remember. I guess, using the default password and I"m in. WEP key is behind asterisks. I tell the user I can disable WEP (useless anyway) or reset the password. She tells me she has two other laptops using the connection, but doesn't know the password to get into the laptops. I ask to see them. Turns out they're macbook pro. She calls her husband. He doesn't remember the passwords either (or, so he says). I tell her I'll leave the ethernet cable in place over the weekend and if they can remember or find out the password (turns out a "friend" set it all up for them, but he's long since gone, and didn't tell them what the passwords were..l or so they claimed). I'll come back, set up the wireless on the desktop, retrieve my ethernet cable and that's that.

Then I give her the bill. 2 hours total, $180, plus an additional 29.95 if they want to purchase the VIPRE license for a year. She freaks and says, "You told me it would only be $135!" I say, "I never told you that, I told you that $135 was an average charge for the kind of problem you had, and in fact, I've got more than two hours here at your house, not counting the hours in the lab to fix your PC."

She calls hubby again, out of my earshot. Comes back and says, "The PC is unworkable now, without the internet, and I don't want wires srung along the hall." I explain to her (again) that if they can a) remember the WEP key, I'd be glad to put it in and get the wireless going again, or b) change the code and reset the macbooks, or c) disable security entirely (they're out in the country with nearest neighbors a half-mile away), and tell her that WEP is practically useless anyway as any hacker with half a brain can crack it it in under two minutes.

Turns out, to make matters worse, she has confused wireless security with overall system security, which is why they let Symantec expire.... thinking that as long as they had WEP, they didn't need any more security. *sheesh*

15 minutes more, explaining wireless security vs PC securit;y. Almost a waste of time, because she just wasn't getting it.

While I'm there (late afernoon this time), hubby comes home. Turns out, he was under the impression that just renewing Symantec and running a scan should have cleared the problem and can't understand how come it costs so much. *insert deep breath on my part here* He's obviously clueless, out of the loop, and only receiving filtered information from wifey. I explain to him that there was no way on God's Green Earth that the PC would have worked by any other method than the ones we employed. He then asks, "You should reconnect it to the internet since it's no good to us otherwies." I say, "If you can remember the WEP key, I'd be glad to, otherwise, I can change or delete the WEP entirely. Besides, you are paying me now for clearing out the malware infection, and as you can see, I've already demonstrated tha the infection is gone. It's not my fault you don't know or can't remember the WEP key, and don't want me to clear or change it." He nods and leaves the room, never to be seen again.

The wife pulls out 2 hundred-dollar bills and I remark, "You know, it's a good thing I went to the bank this morning myself... I don't normally carry change. You can pay me by check or credit card if that's more convenient for you". She declines and wants to pay cash. I give her $20 in change, have her sign the work order receipt, leave and think to myself on the way home, "Why do I put up with this crap?"

This is a couple living in a 3000+ square foot home, cul-de-sac, Lexus in the drive, a teen and pre-teen going to high-end private school. Not exactly trailer trash living on ADC or Unenployment benefits.

Anyway... I have more stories like this, but I guess the point of contributing to this thread is that you are occasionally going to run into jerks like this... it's just part of the job. Some of it, you can avoid by managing their expectations and making sure you are clear in your communications, but you are only responsible for what you say, not what they hear, understand or (sometimes conveniently) remember.

 

[14049752]

The problem is that they still play games. You still cannot prove who said what, "Jim-Bob" may not have the authority and they will say you shouldn't
have accepted it regardless. However, the reverse can also happen:

Yeah, this is true. That's why I said "try to avoid" situations like that. Knock on wood, we really don't have any horror stories about stuff like that. Or maybe we do and we just have such thick skin that they don't even make a lasting impression....

 

[noah]

Great, these threads always bring up some scenario that I forgot and have to add to my ever growing work order/disclaimer form.

Unfortunately there will always be some new piece of work that defies common sense thinking. In my days of phone tech support I would speak to 40+ people in a day from all over the country. I have pretty much talked to every ass personality type out there and can spot them in the first few words of a conversation. Vent away.

 

[K007]

Good, get rid of them, you don't need that kind of scum for a customer.
I think you handled it fine, they were probably a rip off team, I've had it happen to me as well, you have to kinda feel it out in the beginning.

You are right, you have to fill them out.
But one bad experience will only make you more confused.

I bit this bullet twice before I got the nack for it.
Now, if I get the suspicion, I refuse to do the job right from the beginning.
No second thaughts about lost business.
Everybody I do a job for is a nice person until I eyeball him/her.
Then either goes good or bad. I keep it simple and saves me hassle.

 

[Jake77444]

Take the machine back, fire it up and discover the wireless won't connect. AT&T 2WIRE Modem/Router combo on WEP. User doesn't know/can't remember the WEP key. Grab a 25' Ethernet cable from the jeep, connect directly to the router and demo the machine clean. Connect to the router, ask user what the router password is. User doesn't know/can't remember. I guess, using the default password and I"m in. WEP key is behind asterisks. I tell the user I can disable WEP (useless anyway) or reset the password. She tells me she has two other laptops using the connection, but doesn't know the password to get into the laptops. I ask to see them. Turns out they're macbook pro. She calls her husband. He doesn't remember the passwords either (or, so he says). I tell her I'll leave the ethernet cable in place over the weekend and if they can remember or find out the password (turns out a "friend" set it all up for them, but he's long since gone, and didn't tell them what the passwords were..l or so they claimed). I'll come back, set up the wireless on the desktop, retrieve my ethernet cable and that's that.

Don't mean to go off topic but since you mentioned it thought I would just throw this out there. Just a helpful comment that may help you or someone else in the future.

If it is a 2WIRE and she had a custom WEP key its most likely her area code+phone number. This is based on the fact she most likely called her ISP(ATT, Qwest,ect) or 2WIRE and they changed it via MDC access. This is what these techs are trained to change the WEP too.

If it is set to the default WEP key then it is in brackets on the bottom of the 2WIRE between the two barcodes(just incase you didnt know).

Also if you ever need to reset a 2WIRE system/router password then you typically need the system key(default wep key) and you can change the 2wire password. Unless it hasn't hit CMS then you're going to be provided with a 20 digit code and have to call 2WIRE for a temp password.

If anyone ever has any questions about a 2WIRE feel free to ask me. I use to work for 2WIRE.

 

[mmanna]

Wow, I got a headache just from reading those. I am so glad that I don't have many of those kind of problems. We've been in biz for 6 years and I think I can still count on one hand the number of customers I've blacklisted ... and none of them were as bad as any of those stories!

 

[basic]

hehe...I do not envy any of you.

 

[studiot]

thanks Jake, for some interesting stuff about 2wire.

However what you say is not necessarily true about countries outside the US.

I have a good supply of BT business hubs which I often fit (did one today) when a customer requires a replacement for the poor quality ones the ISP supplied at a keen price.

I have a great respect and likeing for these as they are well made, and easy to set up with a variety of ISPs, but they are custom made for British Telecom and do not conform to your spec.

 

[Doctor Micro]

Don't mean to go off topic but since you mentioned it thought I would just throw this out there. Just a helpful comment that may help you or someone else in the future.

If it is a 2WIRE and she had a custom WEP key its most likely her area code+phone number. This is based on the fact she most likely called her ISP(ATT, Qwest,ect) or 2WIRE and they changed it via MDC access. This is what these techs are trained to change the WEP too.

If it is set to the default WEP key then it is in brackets on the bottom of the 2WIRE between the two barcodes(just incase you didnt know).

Also if you ever need to reset a 2WIRE system/router password then you typically need the system key(default wep key) and you can change the 2wire password. Unless it hasn't hit CMS then you're going to be provided with a 20 digit code and have to call 2WIRE for a temp password.

If anyone ever has any questions about a 2WIRE feel free to ask me. I use to work for 2WIRE.

Great advice and info for everybody, thanks. Unfortunately, in this case, all those things were tried. The only thing they had written down was the logon and password to the router, so I didn't have to reset the router. I eventually did reset the WEP key (the WiFi desktop didn't support WPA) and got the desktop back online. I have since boned up on how to set WEP/WPA settings for OSX, so if I run into a mixed WiFi setup like this again, I'll be able to reset everything.

 

[Jake77444]

thanks Jake, for some interesting stuff about 2wire.

However what you say is not necessarily true about countries outside the US.

You are correct about it not being true for anything outside of the US(With an exception for Telus). I should of been more specific because I forget there is a lot of people on these forums outside the US.

I have since boned up on how to set WEP/WPA settings for OSX, so if I run into a mixed WiFi setup like this again, I'll be able to reset everything.

Yeah MAC wireless is typically very simple and easy to work with.......but when it doesn't work that is a whole different story. It can be a real PITA. If you have problems with MAC on WEP your better off not messing with it and changing it to WPA. Unfortuantly ovbiously that wouldn't work in your case because of the desktop. I've fooled with trying to get certain MACs to work on WEP for hours with no luck. The dollar sign trick only goes so far......Once I change to WPA it connects as easy as 1 2 3.

Maybe anonymous MAC tech can bring us more insight on why some MACs simply will not work with WEP? Have you seen this?

Also if you ever run into a MAC(OSX 10.4.9 or below) and its having a problem where its rebooting itself for no apparent reason.....check to see if there is a 2WIRE.

If there is a 2WIRE then go and change the network name of the MAC to something real simple(no special characters or spaces). There is an issue that was patched in 10.4.10 that resolved a compatibility issue where the MAC would reboot if there was special characters in the network name and 2WIRE connected.

I know a lot of you don't support MACs but would like to see maybe this will help you someday.

Anyways, Sorry for rambling but hopefully it helps someone sometime.

 

[Pc Fixed Right]

To avoid such problems for myself I simply make an exact duplicate of the customers drive when it comes in. If for whatever reason they behave in a manner that does not sit well with me. I clone the drive back to its original state, tell them to have a nice day and charge them the diagnostic fee only if they are being real jerks.

 

[Doctor Micro]

To avoid such problems for myself I simply make an exact duplicate of the customers drive when it comes in. If for whatever reason they behave in a manner that does not sit well with me. I clone the drive back to its original state, tell them to have a nice day and charge them the diagnostic fee only if they are being real jerks.

While I appreciate the perverse pleasure in such a solution, the time it takes to image every single system that crosses my bench for a "just in case" scenario is unrealistic and prohibitive. That being said, I can absolutely guarantee you that there have been a few times when I sure wished I'd had something like that... I just can't see doing it for every screwed up machine that comes in.

 

[EricB]

When I worked for Geek Squad about the only usable thing they pounded into me was PAPERWORK. Dont do anything without a signature and demand they come in if something changes for a signature and write down and document EVERYTHING. This way if there is a complaint you show them the signature and its said and done, this has gotten me out of alot of issues alot of times. sometimes the best tool is the pen!

 

[joydivision]

I would really hate to have to work in that sort of environment . I think the UK is a hopefully a bit nicer in the fact that there isn't the same sue somebody culture.

The courts have to prove the business is wrong and the client has to prove it.