Server job for local business, please advise

[d3v]

And don't make the mistake of going for the cheap entry level servers...those "100" series models. With HP Proliants...start with the ML350 class. With Dell, I start with the PE 420 models...and go on up from there...although for some super small clients I've used their PE 320 model.

Hi YeOldCat, he managed to bid and win an ebay auction for a HP ProLiant ML350 server just as you asvised. He won it for £100, but it comes with no hard drive so I have to source one for him however I have no idea what type to buy! Could you let me know what type so I can begin searching for one. He wants a RAID setup so I'll need two drives at least. Do I need SCSI or SAS type?

 

[Markverhyden]

Hi YeOldCat, he managed to bid and win an ebay auction for a HP ProLiant ML350 server just as you asvised. He won it for £100, but it comes with no hard drive so I have to source one for him however I have no idea what type to buy! Could you let me know what type so I can begin searching for one. He wants a RAID setup so I'll need two drives at least. Do I need SCSI or SAS type?

You can go to partsurfer.hp.com to look up parts for HP models. If you have never been there before it will ask which country you are in.

Then you need to get the HP model number off of the computer itself. Usually on a label below the serial number. Looks something like 458239-001. Those models generally are setup to take SAS for multiple drives. I seem to remember that they can also a couple of SATA devices. One being the CD drive. You can also input the serial number into partsurfer and it should show you the BOM.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Hi YeOldCat, he managed to bid and win an ebay auction for a HP ProLiant ML350 server just as you asvised. He won it for £100, but it comes with no hard drive so I have to source one for him however I have no idea what type to buy! Could you let me know what type so I can begin searching for one. He wants a RAID setup so I'll need two drives at least. Do I need SCSI or SAS type?

Depends on the "generation"..and what options are installed.
You will typically see a brown sticker towards the upper left corner ..may have to open the front bezel door. It should say "G5" or something that designates the generation.

From there...need to find out what type of hard drive bay the server has...hot swap, or not.

From there...good to also find out what RAID controller is installed in there...and with what options.

From learning the generation of server....I refer to the "Quickspecs" sheet of that server, to learn which optional parts are designed for it, and their numbers. Here is an example...
http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/14226_na/14226_na.pdf

 

[brandonkick]

hi guys please chill, he knows I'm learning the server side of things, isn't desperate for the thing to be up and running, and we have agreed I only get paid if everything is up and running properly, so there's no stress involved at all.

He wants me to upgrade all machines to Win 7 Pro so I'm just waiting on him to give me the go ahead on that at the moment.

In the meantime I'm reading and watching as much Server 2012 info as I can, that youtube channel has been an excellent resource, thank you for pointing it out and this is one of the reasons I started the thread in the first place!

Just one question. Do servers need to be on some sort of ISP "business package" that features a static IP or is his standard domestic ISP internet subscription ok? I think it's 30mb, but the main concern is weather or not a static IP lease is required from the ISP to run a server environment??

And please don't take my disbelief the wrong way but I am very surprised this spec of a machine won't be able to serve 3 static PC's down stairs and 2-3 remote VPN client laptops. Is a E7500 and 4GB RAM really that old/obsolete?!?!

There are pro's and cons for a static IP, but I'm also in the camp that a static IP is the only way to set up a server. It should be on a fixed IP address, so that you can always have a clear and accurate "network map" of "where everything resides".

How you set that up will depend. Here at work I can assign IP address to devices manual through our Comcast SMC gateway device. I think you may even be able to assign that IP address within windows server 2012? I am not positive, as I have only a little bit of experience with server 2008 and that was just me playing with it to setup up a WIM deployment environment.

The reason they suggested the hardware was because it is necessary to fulfill the needs of a server. A server is meant for reliability, to "serve" information and applications on a highly dependable basis. Consumer grade, used hardware does not meet these requirements. Consumer grade machines do not support the redundant features that a real server wood.

4GB of ram is not enough for a server. Will a server run on 4GB? Sure it will.... will it run well? Probably not. Do yourself a favor and start at 8GB. For this guy, 8GB should be fine.

The real deal here is that part of learning the server operating system is understanding why it needs to be on good server hardware. Especially if you ever do this for anyone else. Older desktops are great for making untangle boxes and several other things, but they are not great for server units.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

There are pro's and cons for a static IP, but I'm also in the camp that a static IP is the only way to set up a server. It should be on a fixed IP address, so that you can always have a clear and accurate "network map" of "where everything resides".

How you set that up will depend. Here at work I can assign IP address to devices manual through our Comcast SMC gateway device. I think you may even be able to assign that IP address within windows server 2012? I am not positive, as I have only a little bit of experience with server 2008 and that was just me playing with it to setup up a WIM deployment environment.

Not only is it convenient for "network mapping"...it's mandatory for active directory to run on the entire network....from the server...to the workstations. Active directory relies on DNS....DNS is the foundation of it. A server needs to have a static LAN IP so it will use its IP (and only its IP) for DNS. And...other servers, plus client workstations...need to use the servers LAN IP...and only that LAN IP...for their DNS.

Without that, active directory is broken...from top...to bottom.

And yes the DHCP service on a server has the ability to do "reservations". And the server should do DHCP, not a router.

 

[d3v]

Hi YeOldeCat the server arrived however I havn't had a chance to have a look at it yet. Will do my research on what parts it needs as soon as I have those details you mentioned, and thanks for that link.

As far the server setup I'm no closer than before... still can't get the Windows 7 Pro machine downstairs to join the domain that I (think) i properly setup on the server. Keep getting an error along the lines of "cannot join that ADS" and something about DNS being off, too. I have setup ADS on the server, weather I have done so adequately is beyond me.

Iim sure there's something fundamentally amiss but I havn't the slightest clue what it could be. I tried setting up DNS but go utterly confused with it all and morale has suffered.

The router is a cheap BT ADSL belkin F5D8633-4 and while they're on a BT business grade internet package, the WAN IP address is not static. Is this a problem for a server setup or is it only the LAN IP's that matter? Is a static WAN IP necessary? Also on this router I didn't find any option to reserve an IP for the server upstairs, so instead I set the server to be 192.168.2.50 which theoretically should never be taken by another device as they never have more than 8-10 devices using the router at any one time, so that leaves 40 IP leases before 192.168.2.50 could get snatched.

Also is there anything at all I should be configuring on the routers firmware settings for the benefit/functioning of the server itself?

I know the hardware is crap but the whole objective is simply to get this setup to see it working and then implement proper kit.

 

[mikeroq]

If you are running a domain, the server should be running the DHCP and DNS on its own. Disable the DHCP on the router and install the DHCP role on the server. You also need to set the network adapter up with a static ip. Say router is 192.168.2.1, set the SERVER ip to 192.168.2.50, subnet 255.255.255.0, Gateway 192.168.2.1, and DNS to 192.168.2.50 (only). You want every device to point to the server (and the server itself) for DNS. Watch the video below it will guide you on setting this all up.

The internet connection doesn't need a static IP unless they require it for external access, but in this case don't worry about it. Just disable the DHCP server on the router.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WyBxwJD_c0

 

[d3v]

If you are running a domain, the server should be running the DHCP and DNS on its own. Disable the DHCP on the router and install the DHCP role on the server. You also need to set the network adapter up with a static ip. Say router is 192.168.2.1, set the SERVER ip to 192.168.2.50, subnet 255.255.255.0, Gateway 192.168.2.1, and DNS to 192.168.2.50 (only). You want every device to point to the server (and the server itself) for DNS. Watch the video below it will guide you on setting this all up.

The internet connection doesn't need a static IP unless they require it for external access, but in this case don't worry about it. Just disable the DHCP server on the router.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WyBxwJD_c0

I see, I would never of guessed so. I did actually set the servers ethernet adapter to the details as you outlined however I had no idea to disable DHCP on router and set it up on the server. Thing is if I disable DHCP on the router I'd have to get everything setup and working properly the same day or the lack of DHCP on the router will stop them from using the internet. So many problems!

 

[Markverhyden]

I see, I would never of guessed so. I did actually set the servers ethernet adapter to the details as you outlined however I had no idea to disable DHCP on router and set it up on the server. Thing is if I disable DHCP on the router I'd have to get everything setup and working properly the same day or the lack of DHCP on the router will stop them from using the internet. So many problems!

1. If the existing machines just need internet access all you need to do is assign their IP's manually to the same IP info that have been assigned via DHCP by the router. The same for any other network devices like IP printers. They will continue to function irregardless of what happens with the server when you disable DHCP on the router.

2. Assuming you have a MS Pro/Enterprise OS on a laptop/desktop you can use that machine to test with the server on the end user's network. Create a lab account, admin level, on the machine for domain testing purposes only. Never log into your normal account while doing this. You should be able to demote the machine when you are done and your regular account should be fine.

 

[mikeroq]

I see, I would never of guessed so. I did actually set the servers ethernet adapter to the details as you outlined however I had no idea to disable DHCP on router and set it up on the server. Thing is if I disable DHCP on the router I'd have to get everything setup and working properly the same day or the lack of DHCP on the router will stop them from using the internet. So many problems!

Set all the computers to have a static IP. Then set up the server and once you are ready to test use your own laptop or set one of the computers to DHCP and go from there.

I set this all up before I even get on site. Get on site, hook up the server, turn it on, change router settings, and go from there.

Also since the computers have a DHCP lease, even after you turn it off on the router the computers will still have their IP settings and should be able to get online normally.

 

[jbartlett323]

I see, I would never of guessed so. I did actually set the servers ethernet adapter to the details as you outlined however I had no idea to disable DHCP on router and set it up on the server. Thing is if I disable DHCP on the router I'd have to get everything setup and working properly the same day or the lack of DHCP on the router will stop them from using the internet. So many problems!

Glad your learning, but this is exactly why everyone said do this in a test lab first! You have to bring services down sometimes, especially internet. If you don't know how to mitigate that, or do the swap quickly enough (or how quick quickly enough is) for it not to matter, you are going break something. And what happens when you flip that switch, and something (like DNS) isn't set up correctly? Nothing works. Its all broke. Now your moral is very low, and your buddy is cursing you because you broke his network. Assuming you know what is borked, you can fix it fast, but will you know whats wrong? Do you know what you can do for work-arounds? Do you even know how to troubleshoot AD/DHCP/DNS issues? Have you set this all up in a test environment and broke it, just to see what happens?

I would like to reiterate what I said before, with a bit more detail:
TEST, TEST, TEST!! Take your "server" box home, set it up on your home network. Join your home machines to your AD. Create a couple virtual boxes on your home machines and join those to! Disable DHCP on your home gear, configure DNS on your home gear. Find out what happens to a network after a couple days running 2 DHCP servers, or how long it takes to lose the net without a DHCP server (heres a hint, longer than you would think). What happens when you point your DNS to the wrong place (or just set it up wrong)!

I'm reading this thread, going "man, this is AD server enviroment 101!" So I'll say it again, TEST, TEST, TEST, before install! And after your done testing, blow out every box you used, reload them, set it all back up (without the mistakes you learned about the first time), test it all again, blow the server out again, set it up offsite, configured for the site, bring it in and install! Your buddy will be happy that it all works right, you will be happy that you know how to make it work right. And nothing important goes down for more than a minute, if that...

Good luck man, not tryin to bring ya down, just tryin to highlight your difficulties as I see em!

 

[d3v]

ML350 server arrived turned out to be a gen 5, the chassis is warped and bent like crazy and full of dust inside. Can't believe how different a sever is to a desktop, it's like an entirely different thing, I'm bewildered by the differences.

Also I have the test server back home here and I've been trying to create a server setup but am stumped when it asked me to type an IPV6 Prefix for a new DHCP scope.... what the hell?

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

ML350 server arrived turned out to be a gen 5, the chassis is warped and bent like crazy and full of dust inside. Can't believe how different a sever is to a desktop, it's like an entirely different thing, I'm bewildered by the differences.

Yup we have lots of those out at clients, and a few at our office in our "bone yard" for spare parts.

And heck yeah...beefy stuff huh?

 

[TAPtech]

Ha! Just plug it in and take the top case cover off!

Sounds like a jet engine. Much different animal than a desktop. I had an ML350 G5 in the shop, they are really well built. And by well built I mean really heavy!

see if this helps:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc784831(WS.10).aspx

 

[d3v]

Hi guys I'm making some progress here. I've setup the server and trying to join a Windows 7 Pro laptop to it's domain, however I get a prompt asking for username and password, and nothing I enter works. I tried the username/password of the account, and even tried joining from the administrator account with no luck. Atleast it's a prompt for credentials and not a cryptic error message like before... progress is being made!

What is going on?

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

username: domainname\administrator
password: whatever domain admin password is.

Workstation is using the servers LAN IP for its DNS, right? (guessing so....otherwise you usually get an error about failing to contact the domain name)

 

[d3v]

username: domainname\administrator
password: whatever domain admin password is.

THANKS! That worked perfectly, it says "welcome to the domain" haha nice one!

Workstation is using the servers LAN IP for its DNS, right? (guessing so....otherwise you usually get an error about failing to contact the domain name)

Yep, but one thing I'd like to know the answer to is how does one conjure up a primary and secondary DNS server address, I mean surely it has to come from your ISP, so why am I using 192.168.0.5 and 192.168.0.1 as my primary & secondary (respectively) DNS server addresses? I don't even know if they are correct, or how to check what the correct addresses are. I know something is off because I keep getting "page cannot display" errors on websites. Google seems to work fine, though. Weird.

I also authorized the DHCP, which is something I stumbled on while clicking around on the server, again I had no idea it needed to be done, but did it just because it made sense to!

Right going downstairs to the server now and gonna see if I can see this laptop appear as an icon or something

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

T
Yep, but one thing I'd like to know the answer to is how does one conjure up a primary and secondary DNS server address, I mean surely it has to come from your ISP, so why am I using 192.168.0.5 and 192.168.0.1 as my primary & secondary (respectively) DNS server addresses? I don't even know if they are correct, or how to check what the correct addresses are. I know something is off because I keep getting "page cannot display" errors on websites. Google seems to work fine, though. Weird.

You lost me here. These are internal IP scopes...nothing to do with the ISP, only has to go with your private network..and the LAN side of the router.

If you server has a LAN IP of 192.168.0.5...and a workstation is using that IP for its DNS (nothing else)..and the workstation is not able to resolve internet addresses...something is broke in your servers DNS.

Check to see that the server is using itself for DNS in its TCP/IP properties.
Check to see that you have forwarders in your servers DNS MMC properties.
Check event log, DNS...see that it's heathy.
Can the server ping a public IP address like 208.67.222.222 and get replies?
Can the server ping a public DNS name like www.google.com and get replies?
Can the server browse the internet with a browser itself? If so..good...now move to troubleshooting the workstation.

Repeat above troubleshooting steps on the workstation.

 

[d3v]

Hi, the server is setup as...

192.168.0.5 IP4 address
192.168.0.1 gateway address
192.168.0.5 DNS primary (not sure if this is how it should be)
192.168.0.1 DNS secondary (again, not sure if this is how it should be)

The laptop shares the exact same settings except it's IP address is 6 not 5.

As for webpage browsing I keep getting page cannot be displayed errors on most websites though google seems to be ok. This is such for both the server and laptop workstation.
Pinging google is slow also, although no packet loss.

 

[TAPtech]

Hi, the server is setup as...

192.168.0.5 IP4 address
192.168.0.1 gateway address
192.168.0.5 DNS primary (not sure if this is how it should be)
192.168.0.1 DNS secondary (again, not sure if this is how it should be)

The laptop shares the exact same settings except it's IP address is 6 not 5.

As for webpage browsing I keep getting page cannot be displayed errors on most websites though google seems to be ok. This is such for both the server and laptop workstation.
Pinging google is slow also, although no packet loss.

You should take the gateway out of the loop here for the workstations. Set the workstations to Automatically obtain IP address (DHCP) but manually enter 192.168.0.5 for the first DNS entry. Leave the second one blank.