residentian and commercial costumers fees

[Martyn]

I agree with neutrontech. Going back to what I said earlier the price for the business is the going rate, the residential rate is lower maybe to get the business if you want it. If you don't want it price them the same. Also businesses will pay it(within reason) as it is a running cost for their company off their profits whereas a residential is out of their pocket.

 

[ATTech]

Also businesses will pay it(within reason) as it is a running cost for their company off their profits whereas a residential is out of their pocket.

Exactly the point. I'd have much more respect for the people that do charge more if they were to come out and admit that they charge businesses more because they will pay it, not some BS excuse about it being harder.

 

[NeutronTech]

Exactly the point. I'd have much more respect for the people that do charge more if they were to come out and admit that they charge businesses more because they will pay it, not some BS excuse about it being harder.

Harder Work = Longer Time = More Money

If the work is more difficult, you are naturally going to make more money without raising your rates. I don't by this excuse either. If you get there and it's a 10 minute fix, then it wasn't harder and therefore doesn't justify the higher rate. The idea of more difficult work is subjective. One company might say that some things are difficult and another may say it's easy. It's just not a valid excuse to charge more.

Just like a mechanic. They charge by the book. The book estimates how many hours it will take, and that is what is charged. A new set of breaks will be easier and cheaper than putting in a new transmission. The transmission job is harder, but it makes more money only because it takes longer. Minus parts of course.

 

[ATTech]

The idea of more difficult work is subjective.

This is the main thing. Whose to say that typical issues that are seen at a business are more difficult or require more knowledge than those found at a residence?

Tracking down and removing a virus manually is something that required time and energy to learn and perfect, whereas a business could say not to bother and just re-image the machine. In this case, the residential job required more training and experience.

The guy who worked as a system analyst for 15 years might find residential work more difficult than the guy who has been doing home-based repairs for the past 15 years, and vice versa.

Different is not necessarily harder.

 

[Martyn]

This is the main thing. Whose to say that typical issues that are seen at a business are more difficult or require more knowledge than those found at a residence?

Tracking down and removing a virus manually is something that required time and energy to learn and perfect, whereas a business could say not to bother and just re-image the machine. In this case, the residential job required more training and experience.

The guy who worked as a system analyst for 15 years might find residential work more difficult than the guy who has been doing home-based repairs for the past 15 years, and vice versa.

Different is not necessarily harder.

Some really good points being made here. Also what constitutes a business? I could be a resident and a business at home.

 

[minc3d]

The post above is exactly why I believe using a flat common hrly rate for everyone is the most fair way to do it, and then just add in a premium for same day or emergency service. Then if a resident needs emergency service he knows that he won't be tocked-down the ladder compared to a business since they are paying the same emergency rate in the end... if he truly wishes to pay whatever it may be.

 

[pceinc]

We have always charged more for commercial than consumer. Both in-shop and on-site. The reason is simple. Most commercial client's PC's are mission critical to their daily activities. They expect their systems to be fixed in a timely fashion, same or next day in most cases. If you charge the same rate for commercial as you do for consumer, you are selling your services short of what they are worth. If you treat a commercial client's PC as important as you treat a consumer client PC, the commercial client may end up going elsewhere. It's not always about the scope of the problem. If a commercial client has a server, they have more at stake. It requires more knowledge and expertise to service their systems. If it's not worth more money to you it certainly is worth more money to them. Just ask any business owner with a mission critical network who he would rather have working on his network. A company that charges $50 per hour and takes 2 days to solve his problem or a company that charges $150 per hour and resolves the problem the same day. A lot of times when a business is down it's costing them more money in lost productivity and employee downtime than you will bill them for fixing the problem.

 

[MrUnknown]

Everyone is taking my Exchange server out of context because it is "more difficult"

It is more specialized and not a commodity. A surgeon will cost more per hour than a regular doctor due to more training and experience, so he can command a higher rate of pay.

I'd have much more respect for the people that do charge more if they were to come out and admit that they charge businesses more because they will pay it, not some BS excuse about it being harder.

more experience and training always commands a higher pay, it isn't just BS. If you're happy to charge the same for both, then go ahead. I have nothing against it, but if you are installing and repairing Exchange and Windows Server for residential rates, I believe you are selling yourself short, just as we say to people for charging $25/hr for residential work.

 

[ATTech]

Everyone is taking my Exchange server out of context because it is "more difficult"

It is more specialized and not a commodity. A surgeon will cost more per hour than a regular doctor due to more training and experience, so he can command a higher rate of pay.



more experience and training always commands a higher pay, it isn't just BS. If you're happy to charge the same for both, then go ahead. I have nothing against it, but if you are installing and repairing Exchange and Windows Server for residential rates, I believe you are selling yourself short, just as we say to people for charging $25/hr for residential work.

I refer you back to the explanation in my previous post.

 

[MrUnknown]

I refer you back to the explanation in my previous post.

I don't see how it applies to my response. I may have quoted you incorrectly, but generally, things harder to learn are considered harder to do.

Being in a real business environment and performing real business services, should have a higher rate. No matter if it is easy or hard for you to do.

I have a client that runs the IT at one of the local buildings of a large, international corporation. When his computer wouldn't boot, he had no idea what to do. Repairing it was easy for me, he had no idea where to start, but he was telling me how they are going back towards a mainframe type of environment with virtual desktops. He even did a remote desktop connection and used his Vista desktop back at work to test the repair out to see if it is working well enough for him. I can't deploy thin clients and virtual servers (well, it would be hard for me and take twice as long).

If you were to hire him to roll-out thin clients at your business, do you think he would or should charge the same rate I did to repair his computer?

A Master Electrician gets paid more than an apprentice, when I have seen apprentices that know more than the Master they are learning under. You need electrical work, would you expect a Master Electrician to cost more, less or the same as an apprentice?

I don't want you to think that I magically just charge businesses more because they are a business, I certainly don't. I have quite a few clients who work for themselves out of their home or for a real-estate agency. They get charged the same for a virus removal as Aunt Sally does.

But don't expect me to configure Windows Server or Exchange for the same rate, even though it isn't much harder for me.

 

[red12049]

Harder Work = Longer Time = More Money

If the work is more difficult, you are naturally going to make more money without raising your rates. I don't by this excuse either. If you get there and it's a 10 minute fix, then it wasn't harder and therefore doesn't justify the higher rate. The idea of more difficult work is subjective. One company might say that some things are difficult and another may say it's easy. It's just not a valid excuse to charge more.

Just like a mechanic. They charge by the book. The book estimates how many hours it will take, and that is what is charged. A new set of breaks will be easier and cheaper than putting in a new transmission. The transmission job is harder, but it makes more money only because it takes longer. Minus parts of course.

Incorrect equation. Digging a five hundred foot ditch with a shovel is long, hard, tiring work. Digging that same ditch with a trained operator on a backhoe is a comparative piece of cake. Ever notice that you see more backhoes than ditch diggers at most construction sites? Time is money. Who deserves to be paid more? The ditch digger, or the guy who went to school, got specialized training, and can operate that backhoe with skill and precision?

Same thing in our industry. That hypothetical Exchange problem mentioned as having taken three hours to repair might have taken only an hour with the appropriate skills. Shouldn't the person who spent the time and money to acquire those additional skills be compensated appropriately? We expect to be compensated for our skills, why not him?

Longer does not have to indicate harder. It can also indicate skills that are not adequate for the task at hand.

Rick

 

[MrUnknown]

That hypothetical Exchange problem mentioned as having taken three hours to repair might have taken only an hour with the appropriate skills. Shouldn't the person who spent the time and money to acquire those additional skills be compensated appropriately? We expect to be compensated for our skills, why not him?

bingo!

I hope I got this point across in my last post. If not, I hope people understand what Rick said.

 

[ATTech]

There is a difference between charging more for a different level of service, and charging more for the target of said service. The problem with all those analogies is that none of them will charge less if the client doesn't need the same level of skill. A master electrician's rate is a master electrician's rate. It doesn't change depending on the skill required.

 

[NeutronTech]

I don't see how it applies to my response. I may have quoted you incorrectly, but generally, things harder to learn are considered harder to do.

Being in a real business environment and performing real business services, should have a higher rate. No matter if it is easy or hard for you to do.

I have a client that runs the IT at one of the local buildings of a large, international corporation. When his computer wouldn't boot, he had no idea what to do. Repairing it was easy for me, he had no idea where to start, but he was telling me how they are going back towards a mainframe type of environment with virtual desktops. He even did a remote desktop connection and used his Vista desktop back at work to test the repair out to see if it is working well enough for him. I can't deploy thin clients and virtual servers (well, it would be hard for me and take twice as long).

If you were to hire him to roll-out thin clients at your business, do you think he would or should charge the same rate I did to repair his computer?

A Master Electrician gets paid more than an apprentice, when I have seen apprentices that know more than the Master they are learning under. You need electrical work, would you expect a Master Electrician to cost more, less or the same as an apprentice?

I don't want you to think that I magically just charge businesses more because they are a business, I certainly don't. I have quite a few clients who work for themselves out of their home or for a real-estate agency. They get charged the same for a virus removal as Aunt Sally does.

But don't expect me to configure Windows Server or Exchange for the same rate, even though it isn't much harder for me.

I think the point being made is that you shouldn't charge a commercial customer more than a residential customer because, in either case, you have the same amount of experience and training. When you go to a house to service a pc, you still have the training and expertise of your more advanced education. Just knowing the concepts you've learned dealing with servers will influence your troubleshooting tactics and efficiency on a regular PC. So they are benefiting from your experience as well.

You don't forget all of your server work when you go to a residential home do you? No, of course not. It's like the surgeon example you mentioned. Yes he does demand more pay than a regular doctor, but even when he is doing things with a patient that are non surgery related, he still commands the same rate.

Really, with that logic, you can't charge customer's the same.... ever. Because if you went to a job that you had install photoshop or something, you would have to forget your experience with the hardware and most of the other software components. Your not using them, so you shouldn't charge for them. So how much expertise does it take to install Photoshop? You'd make $5 on that job.

My point is, that either your prices are based on your experience or they aren't. You can't separate rates based on what skill set you are more likely to use on that job. All of your experience, skills, and training are intertwined in a technical tapestry, web of wonder, diagnostic directory, knowledge network, or whatever you call it. It's a part of you, your company, your reputation and YOUR PRICE.

 

[red12049]

There is a difference between charging more for a different level of service, and charging more for the target of said service. The problem with all those analogies is that none of them will charge less if the client doesn't need the same level of skill. A master electrician's rate is a master electrician's rate. It doesn't change depending on the skill required.

The reason for the targeting, I believe, is mere convenience. It would be rare, I think to stumble on a home user (not SOHO) who was running SBS2008, and if you did, chances are it would be used as a workstation, with that type of a problem, rather than as a server. Lesser rates would apply.

If I walk into a small Mom & Pop retail store with a single box used as a POS, I charge normal rates, unless I had to rush out there. On the other hand, if I walk into a retail store with six POS stations, SBS 2003 in the back with a few more back office systems, and secure PCI compliant wireless, you better believe I'm going to charge him for my painfully acquired skills to get him back up and running, without breaking something else in the process.

If I know more, I can charge more when the situation requires it. The client gladly pays for that increased knowledge and skill set.

Rick

 

[NeutronTech]

The reason for the targeting, I believe, is mere convenience. It would be rare, I think to stumble on a home user (not SOHO) who was running SBS2008, and if you did, chances are it would be used as a workstation, with that type of a problem, rather than as a server. Lesser rates would apply.

......

The client gladly pays for that increased knowledge and skill set.

Rick

So, why does this mean that commercial gets charged more? You still have the same knowledge and experience for each type of customer, whether you use it or not. I don't see how the value of your experience changes with different customers.

If you truly feel that it does change, then you should be charging flat rate prices based on each possible thing you could do. That way people are only paying for what skills of yours you are using.

 

[red12049]

I think the point being made is that you shouldn't charge a commercial customer more than a residential customer because, in either case, you have the same amount of experience and training. When you go to a house to service a pc, you still have the training and expertise of your more advanced education. Just knowing the concepts you've learned dealing with servers will influence your troubleshooting tactics and efficiency on a regular PC. So they are benefiting from your experience as well.

You don't forget all of your server work when you go to a residential home do you? No, of course not. It's like the surgeon example you mentioned. Yes he does demand more pay than a regular doctor, but even when he is doing things with a patient that are non surgery related, he still commands the same rate.

Really, with that logic, you can't charge customer's the same.... ever. Because if you went to a job that you had install photoshop or something, you would have to forget your experience with the hardware and most of the other software components. Your not using them, so you shouldn't charge for them. So how much expertise does it take to install Photoshop? You'd make $5 on that job.

My point is, that either your prices are based on your experience or they aren't. You can't separate rates based on what skill set you are more likely to use on that job. All of your experience, skills, and training are intertwined in a technical tapestry, web of wonder, diagnostic directory, knowledge network, or whatever you call it. It's a part of you, your company, your reputation and YOUR PRICE.

Not quite sure what you are trying to say here. Reality is that I can charge whatever I want, and the customer can agree to pay or not. If I read what you are saying correctly, you are stating that the surgeon is wrong to charge the same for all services?

I charge different rates due to practicality and need, no other reason. If I could, I would charge the same, higher rate. It is, after all, what we are in business for.

Rick

 

[callthatgirl]

I am hiring a hardware/network tech and I can guarantee you that they will want more money for their knowledge/skills/experience, so I have to charge more for that type of labor.

As an owner, you know the industry rates, and follow them. I plan on doing that once I am established in my new community.

 

[red12049]

So, why does this mean that commercial gets charged more? You still have the same knowledge and experience for each type of customer, whether you use it or not. I don't see how the value of your experience changes with different customers.

If you truly feel that it does change, then you should be charging flat rate prices based on each possible thing you could do. That way people are only paying for what skills of yours you are using.

The value of anyone's experience is what someone else is willing to pay for that expertise. Nothing more or less. Based on what you are saying, if I were an employee and got a promotion and salary increase, any tasks that I do now, that I also used to do before, I should get paid at the old, lower, rate, even though, because of my experience, I may be faster at them, better at them, and more productive all around. Do you really believe that?

Are you faster, better at repairing computers now than when you started? If so, why?

If you are faster, you are saving the customer money, but you have a dilemma. If you retain the same customer base, you are making less money, because you are finishing more quickly. You can either go find more customers, or increase your rates, or some combination thereof.

Increasing your skillset doesn't mean the old skills stay static. They will improve as well. It's ok to charge more for that. You have to make a living also.

Rick

 

[ATTech]

Do you really believe that?

No, but you do. If you say you charge a business more because it requires more skill and experience to work with them, then that is the same and charging a resident less because it doesn't require as much skill and experience. If you're charging based on skill and experience, then you shouldn't have a reduced rate to your residential clients. But you do. Why? Because they aren't as willing to pay the higher rates that you charge businesses. Which brings me back to my original point, you are charging businesses more because they are willing pay it.