Possible bad HD, clone OS and replace?

[Appleby]

Ok here is a question. I've got a customer will a Dell Inspiron 530 desktop with Vista Home Prem. on it. They are using it as their Quickbooks pc in their small business. A few months back the machine wouldn't boot to the login prompt. It would boot into Safe Mode with no problems. A system restore would do nothing. Sill boot into Safe Mode, but not into normal mode. I thought their might be a hard drive problem so I ran SpinRite to test for bad sectors. It found no errors and come back 100% clean....but when the computer rebooted it started up fine. Weird? I couldn't make it hang when booting again.

Fast forward to today. The customer calls with the same problem and I honestly didn't remember what had been the problem before. Then it it me and I remembered. Once again, exact same scenario, Safe Mode works, System Restore does nothing. Still hangs when booting normally. Once again, I run SpinRite, BAM computer boots like a champ and everything works great.

That all being said, I don't know what else to say besides there is a some sort of HD problem, even though SpinRite is finding no errors. When it's doing its deep scan analysis it must be doing something that is allowing the computer to boot again. Thoughts?

If this is the general consensus, then would I be ok to just clone the HD and copy it over to a new HD? That would obviously be quicker than a full OS reinstall on the new HD and the current OS seems very clean. I ask this because I haven't done much cloning other than some personal backups in the past. I keep seeing all the techs on here talking about cloning all the time and I thought this might be a good time.

Again, thoughts?

EDIT

Ignore the first part of this post. I just reached down and turned this pc back on right after typing this and the HD started clicking loudly and making an almost squealing noise. I shut it down asap. Tried it again and it booted up fine. I'm doing a full backup right now, even though I've already backed up everything they said they wanted. Not sure if a clone will be an option at this point if the drive is failing....

 

[BDPCR]

I would clone/image the drive if i were you then do a drive diagnostic. I had a similar issue with a Dell laptop. Turned out to be AHCI, settings in the bios conflicting with the AHCI drivers in the OS, had to update the bios and AHCI drivers. If it is a SATA drive check and try setting it to ATA mode and update AHCI drivers from intel in the OS.

 

[vdub12]

I would clone/image the drive if i were you then do a drive diagnostic. I had a similar issue with a Dell laptop. Turned out to be AHCI, settings in the bios conflicting with the AHCI drivers in the OS, had to update the bios and AHCI drivers. If it is a SATA drive check and try setting it to ATA mode and update AHCI drivers from intel in the OS.

You had a hard drive squeal and click because of a BIOS setting?

I don't think so.

If the image comes out good replace the drive and reload the system. Then restore the data. I never clone a failing drive. You never know what problems you are going to bring with it. If a drive is failing your best bet is to save the data not the OS.

EDIT: Sorry the clicking and squealing part was an edit, you may not have read that when you made your post. I don't think its a BIOS setting.

 

[lgtechcomputers]

Since the drive is clicking, I'd first backup the most critical data for the customer and then attempt to backup what is not so critical but is still important.

You never know how long you will have before it goes bad completely.

Good luck!

 

[BDPCR]

You had a hard drive squeal and click because of a BIOS setting?

I don't think so.

If the image comes out good replace the drive and reload the system. Then restore the data. I never clone a failing drive. You never know what problems you are going to bring with it. If a drive is failing your best bet is to save the data not the OS.

EDIT: Sorry the clicking and squealing part was an edit, you may not have read that when you made your post. I don't think its a BIOS setting.

Nope didn't read that part, emphasis on backing up whatever data could be recovered before the drive buys the farm.

 

[RegEdit]

I never clone a failing drive. You never know what problems you are going to bring with it. If a drive is failing your best bet is to save the data not the OS.

What method do you use to save the data? Command prompt?
xcopy "c:\Documents and Settings\*" d:\folder /cevwh /g

 

[vdub12]

What method do you use to save the data? Command prompt?
xcopy "c:\Documents and Settings\*" d:\folder /cevwh /g

Depends on the situation. Sometimes I use fabs and other times I just drag and drop. I have found that you can use driveimagexml in some cases and just click ignore when you get an error, its risky though all the work the drive has to go though could kill it. I will only image a drive if its just starting to get SMART cautions because chances are the drive will survive. However, if its making noise or if I believe it will not last more then a few minutes I target data and rip it off as fast as I can.

I like to image the whole drive, even though I will not use the image on a new drive its nice to have just in case the customer wants something off of it that you forgot to restore because it was in a strange place.

 

[RegEdit]

Depends on the situation. Sometimes I use fabs and other times I just drag and drop. I have found that you can use driveimagexml in some cases and just click ignore when you get an error, its risky though all the work the drive has to go though could kill it. I will only image a drive if its just starting to get SMART cautions because chances are the drive will survive. However, if its making noise or if I believe it will not last more then a few minutes I target data and rip it off as fast as I can.

I like to image the whole drive, even though I will not use the image on a new drive its nice to have just in case the customer wants something off of it that you forgot to restore because it was in a strange place.

I hear you. Assuming that the drive could go at any time, I think it's best to know in advance what are your most critical files that you need to go after individually ASAP. See if you can salvage those first, then try for the whole "documents and settings" folder (or "users" Vista).

 

[vdub12]

I hear you. Assuming that the drive could go at any time, I think it's best to know in advance what are your most critical files that you need to go after individually ASAP. See if you can salvage those first, then try for the whole "documents and settings" folder (or "users" Vista).

I have found that If you use ubuntu live on vista and 7 machines it will ignore the directory permissions and let you rip the whole user folder out.

Most systems you can be save to assume that the docs and settings are all thats important. However, I have had customers ****** before because they had a hidden folder on the root directory that I didn't get. My defense is hey it was hidden and you didn't tell me about it. Luckily I image the whole drive 99% of the time. Its only on badly damaged drives that I target information.

 

[RegEdit]

I have found that If you use ubuntu live on vista and 7 machines it will ignore the directory permissions and let you rip the whole user folder out.

Most systems you can be save to assume that the docs and settings are all thats important. However, I have had customers ****** before because they had a hidden folder on the root directory that I didn't get. My defense is hey it was hidden and you didn't tell me about it. Luckily I image the whole drive 99% of the time. Its only on badly damaged drives that I target information.

Yes. Ubuntu indeed copies right past user permissions (Microsoft doesn't want people to know that though!). Ubuntu won't copy encrypted files and folders though. That's why I prefer the command prompt. It will copy encrypted files and folders, just removing the encryption attributes. You have to be able to log on to the desktop though.

There are indeed programs that store personal data outside of Doc's & Settings. Older versions of Quicken, Microsoft Money, eMule and others store data in "Programs" by default. I always look around and liberally copy anything that remotely looks like it might contain personal data. Sometimes customers just store stuff in unorthodox places. If and when using the command prompt I always set it to copy hidden folders.

 

[vdub12]

Yes. Ubuntu indeed copies right past user permissions (Microsoft doesn't want people to know that though!). Ubuntu won't copy encrypted files and folders though. That's why I prefer the command prompt. It will copy encrypted files and folders, just removing the encryption attributes. You have to be able to log on to the desktop though.

There are indeed programs that store personal data outside of Doc's & Settings. Older versions of Quicken, Microsoft Money, eMule and others store data in "Programs" by default. I always look around and liberally copy anything that remotely looks like it might contain personal data. Sometimes customers just store stuff in unorthodox places. If and when using the command prompt I always set it to copy hidden folders.

Thats one of the reason ubuntu is nice to because it also ignores the hidden attribute. I see what you mean about encrypted files but those are very rare to run in to. Every once in a while i come across a system that might make use of Windows built in encryption but its a long shot. Most of my customers are very green and don't do anything like that. Most of the people that would have accounts like that setup are people that probably would not want to pay me anyway because they would have the knowledge to fix it them selfs.

 

[RegEdit]

those are very rare to run in to. Every once in a while i come across a system that might make use of Windows built in encryption but its a long shot.

Don't forget that Internet Explorer passwords are encrypted and require a registry key or Files & Settings Transfer Wizard export or Vista/7 Windows Easy Transfer in order to save them.

 

[MobileTechie]

I think it's debatable whether it's better to clone or copy data from a failing drive.

Copying data means the head moves around a lot more and so might exacerbate a head problem. But cloning means the drive is in use longer.

BTW is spinrite the only tool you used to judge hdd health? Did you not look at the SMART attributes or use the mrfrs own test tools?

 

[RegEdit]

BTW is spinrite the only tool you used to judge hdd health?

Avoid SpinRite until you have cloned or imaged the failing drive. Technically SpinRite is destructive because it alters data.

 

[Martyn]

I used Getdataback recently on a bad drive that wouldn't boot(making clicking noises intermittently). I created an image from within the program and worked on the image for data recovery. After 8 hours of Getdataback trying to get data back it managed 90% recovery(10% errors) and fortunately the 90% included 100% of the clients wedding and other pics.

 

[vdub12]

Don't forget that Internet Explorer passwords are encrypted and require a registry key or Files & Settings Transfer Wizard export or Vista/7 Windows Easy Transfer in order to save them.

I did not know that.

I have used the IE tool to retrieve passwords before and never had a problem with it. However thats always with the system on line. I have never tried to recover IE passwords off line before.

I think some things are just SOL. Most customers that I recover the old IE passwords don't understand why or what they should do with it. I here things like hey thats my brothers email address and things like that. Sometimes I think maybe we shouldn't give them a copy of what we find in IE, lol. Would hate to start a family feud.

 

[RegEdit]

I have used the IE tool to retrieve passwords before and never had a problem with it. However thats always with the system on line. I have never tried to recover IE passwords off line before.

I believe IE passwords are always encrypted. You can never actually see the passwords. You just see ***** instead.

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\IntelliForms\SPW is where IE often stores online passwords. Back up that registry key in addition to the files NTUSER.DAT and Formdata.ini found at C:\Documents And Settings\[user name]\
Test it out first before you rely on it.

 

[Appleby]

Sorry guys I didn't know there were so many replies to this, last time I looked their were none.

Ok, here is the latest info.

First off, all data is backup up. That was the first thing I did. So that's done.

I used Easeus To-Do Backup to clone the drive to the new HD while the machine was back up and booting and all data had been recovered. I thought I was all set and then I realized the computer would not boot from the new HD with the cloned image on it. The pc just kept restarting and would not even attempt to boot from the drive. UGH! I read online that a repair of Vista might be needed after doing the clone, so I tried that. To my surprise it worked. The computer booted right up off the new drive and all was well.

I closed the case back up on the Dell and restarted....guess what....it did the exact same thing the old drive did. It would go to the scrolling green bars and hang. It stays there indefinitely, which is exactly what the other drive did. After multiple attempts at booting the new drive again, I finally got it to boot using "Last Know Good Config." I left it running for awhile and say that Vista SP2 was wanting to install. I figured it couldn't hurt anything and might solve a problem or two, so I let it go. Rebooted, same thing. Booted into Safe Mode with no problem this time and it's finalizing the SP2 install as we speak.

#1) I believe the org. HD is bad. The clicking I heard was horrible and very classic.
#2) There is obviously more to the problem than just a bad HD though since the brand new HD is having the same problems booting.

Thoughts? Try those SATA updates? This is weird.

 

[MobileTechie]

If the HDD was bad then the cloned file system might be bad. Have you tried chkdsk on it?

 

[Appleby]

By the way.....

I should mention that Vista's start up repair finds no errors and System Restore does no good. However, doing a repair off the OS disk it finds a problem with the Bootmgr and says it will repair and restart. That is what worked the first time, I meant to mention that. I just did a Repair again via the OS disk and again it found a Bootmgr problem and said it would repair it, but I'm still waiting on the system to boot and it doesn't look like the Repair worked this time......