Poke holes in my backup system.

[drjones]

Hi guys I finished building up my media server / NAS.

It's a Windows PC with a dedicated OS drive and 3x 3TB drives for media/file storage. I didn't go with any sort of RAID. I'm running Plex and absolutely LOVE it - it's great software.

I've got a total of about 2TB of data, the bulk of it being stuff that changes very little, if ever, such as home movies, photos, music, my personal DVD rips, etc.

Occasionally on stuff like that I'll reorganize/rename, but generally that stuff stays static. Most changes I make are additions.

That being said, here's the backup system I devised:

- Each internal 3TB drive backs up nightly to its own dedicated 3TB USB 3.0 drive, via Cobian.

- The whole box backs up to another PC via CrashPlan - I am going to move this off-site as soon as the initial backup finishes.

- I'm in the process of building up a separate PC that will stay on-site and sync/backup with Bittorrent Sync - one-way only; meaning any files that change/delete/add on the NAS will reflect onto this PC, but any changes made to this one will NOT sync back.

- I may/probably will also build yet a 3rd PC to place off-site and again sync/backup with Bittorrent sync.

- I'm going to dedicate one additional/new 3TB USB 3.0 drive that I will connect to my NAS roughly monthly, do full backups each time, and place into a safe deposit box.

- I may also buy another USB drive to do only full backups with and keep at another off-site location.


Thoughts, comments?

 

[drpcfix]

Sounds like too much work to me

But nice and safe..

Except, if cobian fails all the downstreams won't help you - and speaking from experience (I ran a production cloud backup product with maybe 75 customers backing up to us via FTP through a customized version of cobian we had built from Cobian himself) - cobian can VERY easily fail, ignore files, skip huge sections of your backup selection, just stop running, etc.

We had all of the above happen in production.

These are some things we saw;

• Some folder would have a file cobian couldn't access, so the whole backup wouldn't work
• The VSS could crash the engine, maybe making a backup take a week before failing to copy a file
• The backup would work (zip the files) but not be able to access the backup destination for XYZ reason
• The alerts would stop sending, maybe an smtp config change

Are you backing up with the archive option set, creating a zip - or just copying the file/directory structure over?

If you are archiving - I would swap cobian for ntbackup.

Otherwise - be sure you watch the cobian logs frequently - and I bet you money it'll fall over in a couple months as some random file changes and isn't writable or something.

 

[drjones]

Sounds like too much work to me

But nice and safe..

Except, if cobian fails all the downstreams won't help you - and speaking from experience (I ran a production cloud backup product with maybe 75 customers backing up to us via FTP through a customized version of cobian we had built from Cobian himself) - cobian can VERY easily fail, ignore files, skip huge sections of your backup selection, just stop running, etc.

We had all of the above happen in production.

These are some things we saw;

• Some folder would have a file cobian couldn't access, so the whole backup wouldn't work
• The VSS could crash the engine, maybe making a backup take a week before failing to copy a file
• The backup would work (zip the files) but not be able to access the backup destination for XYZ reason
• The alerts would stop sending, maybe an smtp config change

- I stopped using / uninstalled the VSS requester in Cobian because I noticed it was doing odd things to my hard disks: http://www.technibble.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54676

As soon as I uninstalled the VSS requester, backups still run fine and the issue described in my thread above disappeared.

- I certainly do not have it zip/compress or do anything to my files other than a straight backup/copy. I do not trust functions like that for exactly the reason you outline; I want to browse my backups and see a mirror image of my files. Yes I guess I'm making an exception for Crashplan....

- I'm in my NAS enough that I'll very quickly notice if I don't get email alerts; I will often manually run backups and look for the logs and do review them carefully. I got burned on this when my ReadyNAS I migrated over from, was sending me alerts of "successful" backups to an attached USB drive. One day I tried to browse the USB drive and was unable to...come to find out it had been completely dead for Lord knows how long.

I have Crystal Disk info installed to report on my HD health.

Are you backing up with the archive option set, creating a zip - or just copying the file/directory structure over?

If you are archiving - I would swap cobian for ntbackup.

No as described above I do not trust functions like that.

What do you mean by NTBackup? Isn't that what was built into XP & Server 2003? I'm running Win7 Pro x64. And in my experience, Windows backup (in Win7, not NTBackup) is a complete disaster. It will totally fill a hard drive and then stop working with basically no notice.

Otherwise - be sure you watch the cobian logs frequently - and I bet you money it'll fall over in a couple months as some random file changes and isn't writable or something.

Yep, as I said above, I'm keeping a VERY close eye on all my cobian logs.

 

[smashedbotatos]

There are always a million what if situations. It sounds relatively solid, but it does seem like a lot of work.

 

[drjones]

There are always a million what if situations. It sounds relatively solid, but it does seem like a lot of work.

How so? It's been a lot of work to get it setup, but it's largely automated:

- Crashplan is set to run continually / automatically and email me logs.

- Cobian is scheduled nightly, emails logs to me.

- BTSync is instantaneous.

The only manual thing I have to do is the monthly USB to the safe deposit.

It may be overkill.....guilty as charged.

 

[smashedbotatos]

That is what I meant. A lot of work setting it up. Like I said it sounds solid. Just keep an eye on logs and you should be golden.

Hopefully you will never need it!!

 

[brandonkick]

Why not just implement some redundant hardware?

Sounds like you've shelled out quite a bit for all of those 3TB drives (both internal and external) and the extra PC's and so on. Do you have to pay for the crashplan? Or any of the other software you are using?


I'd be inclined to set up some sort of server with a good hardware RAID controller, redundant power supplies and so on. If you really wanted to, you could keep backups of the RAID setup. Seems like it would be pretty much just as solid as what your doing now?

What you have laid out seems like it SHOULD protect your data. You have offsite and offline storage as well as multiple backups. Those are some very solid preventative measures.

 

[drjones]

Why not just implement some redundant hardware?

Sounds like you've shelled out quite a bit for all of those 3TB drives (both internal and external) and the extra PC's and so on. Do you have to pay for the crashplan? Or any of the other software you are using?


I'd be inclined to set up some sort of server with a good hardware RAID controller, redundant power supplies and so on. If you really wanted to, you could keep backups of the RAID setup. Seems like it would be pretty much just as solid as what your doing now?

What you have laid out seems like it SHOULD protect your data. You have offsite and offline storage as well as multiple backups. Those are some very solid preventative measures.

Because the RAID controllers alone are $3-$400 for a good consumer-grade one. So in addition to the money I've invested, you can add in the cost of the card.

THEN add in the time/frustration/learning curve as I've not personally dealt with setting up RAID....no thanks.

PLUS, I've read scary stories about these non-enterprise grade cards corrupting data and otherwise just still not being quite as solid as something like a Dell PERC.

As for the redundant PSUs, etc.; I don't need high availability/uptime. This is a media server. I made it for about a month in silence (no iTunes) between when my Duo suddenly died & I got this up & running, I could do it again if this server melts down.

Just wouldn't be happy about it. Actually, with what I've setup now, if a drive dies, I replace it and copy back my data from any of my backups.

No, didn't have to pay for any of the software; the CrashPlan is free to use in the manner I'm using it; between computers you own. You only have to pay if you want to backup to Crashplan's servers/cloud.

The Bittorrent Sync software & Cobian is of course free. Unfortunately I'm discovering the PC I installed BTSync on as the backup, has a faulty hard drive. Just ordered a 500GB to replace the faulty 1TB OS drive....there's another $55...oh well...

The only hardware I paid for is the media server itself; I built that to my specs. The CrashPlan offsite is an older comp I've had lying around for a few years & same with the one that's going to be the BTSync destination.

 

[drjones]

Another update for anyone who's interested:

I *LOVE* this system I built up.
LOVE it. Love it.....love it.....

Plex is awesome......just amazing software. Everything is far, far faster than with ReadyNAS; movies load WAY quicker, virtually no buffering, I can fast-forward through HD movies without a thought...even switching tracks in iTunes is lightning quick, whereas before there was a noticeable pause.

The backup system is working flawlessly; I get my Cobian logs emailed to me nightly, CrashPlan is working great, Bittorrent sync is AWESOME.

It's lightning fast on a LAN. Like scary fast.

Overall, I'm just insanely pleased with this system (did I mention that yet?)

 

[cypress]

Wow great setup. You have layers of backup and I honestly like it. Your data is important to you and you are making sure nothing happens. Hey, even if it's a little overkill whatever makes you happy! haha

 

[drjones]

Wow great setup. You have layers of backup and I honestly like it. Your data is important to you and you are making sure nothing happens. Hey, even if it's a little overkill whatever makes you happy! haha

Well, I almost lost a bunch of data when my ReadyNAS Duo suddenly died. I frankly knew I was tempting fate & waited way, way too long to build up this system I'd been planning in my head for months.

I did a proper shut down of it and it just never woke up. I was unable to recover everything from the primary disk, using special software that's supposed to be able to read / recover from EXT3 file systems.

My backups to USB were only half useful; I learned the hard way that a mirror is far more valuable than a backup that just constantly adds to your backup.

For example, if you have folders A, B and C but then delete or move folder "B", it will still show up in your backup, AND will appear wherever else you moved it to. This obviously creates a ton of duplication and in VERY short order, creates a HUGE mess.

Long story short, I escaped largely unscathed / without losing any data, but I came very close to it. I also didn't have any offsite backup; I now have two types.

With the system I have now, I'm very confident, secure and protected. I feel that I have full control over every single aspect of my media server / NAS and all of the backup components.

I don't have to rely on any third party for any sort of support.

The only thing I need to do is implement a good imaging tool for both my primary / work PC and this media server.

I had another good little scare when I walked into my office the other day and my primary working computer was dead! Ended up just being a dead PSU, but still....

Heck, a while ago I plugged in an old USB hard drive I had lying around the house. A few minutes later I got an email that one of the drives attached to my NAS had reallocated sectors. I thought that was quite odd, as everything is brand new & I hadn't gotten any alerts to the contrary.

Turns out that old USB disk has bad sectors and the Crystal Disk Info picked right up on it! Good test of my system.

 

[drjones]

Just wanted to reiterate how amazed I am by crashplan...I was really concerned because the place where I have the remote PC has a really crappy DSL connection, yet CP plugs along amazingly fast; hundreds of KB/sec!