Making an image backup of a Windows 95 PC

[timeshifter]

I'm pretty certain there are no SATA drivers for W95 so you'll have to stay with an IDE interface. Most likely which is why your image didn't work.

I may not have explained it clearly. SATA drivers and Windows 95 are irrelevant at this stage. The IDE drive was pulled and connected with an adapter to a modern machine booted from PE.

 

[Markverhyden]

I may not have explained it clearly. SATA drivers and Windows 95 are irrelevant at this stage. The IDE drive was pulled and connected with an adapter to a modern machine booted from PE.

My point wasn't getting the image. It was the W95 bootloader. I was under the impression you were thinking about sticking it on a SATA device on newer hardware. If you stick the image on a SATA device the bootloader doesn't have the proper drivers to boot the OS. This was common W XP SP1 and before and SATA drives.

 

[timeshifter]

I was under the impression you were thinking about sticking it on a SATA device on newer hardware.

Oh, I see now. Yeah, at this point it's just about getting a good backup. Long term they may look at alternatives (good idea). But short term they needed a quick backup.

OK, so tonight I tried a few things:
- an old IDE drive from an IBM PS/1. I saw it appear momentarily in Macrium. It showed FAT32 and the drive size in the left column, but the screen didn't fully redraw, I couldn't get it to show again
- an old IDE drive from an XP machine. Could read it no problem
- a couple more old IDE drives, one wouldn't spin up, probably dead after sitting for 20 years.

Could be that all the IDE drives formatted FAT just are crusty. Otherwise I'm not confident in my adapter and overall setup.

Maybe I need more reliable hardware to read old IDE FAT drives in modern systems?

 

[nlinecomputers]

StarTech.com 1 Port PCI Express IDE Controller Adapter Card - Storage Controller - ATA - 133 MBps - PCIe x1 (PEX2IDE) https://a.co/d/ceGlS3G

 

[Markverhyden]

What's the make and model of the HD? Creating a drive to drive may not work with the USB2PATA. I'd try using clonezilla to make an image for backup purposes. The mount it and see if R-Studio see's anything.

 

[timeshifter]

StarTech.com 1 Port PCI Express IDE Controller Adapter Card - Storage Controller - ATA - 133 MBps - PCIe x1 (PEX2IDE) https://a.co/d/ceGlS3G

Looks like a good choice, good reviews. Have you used one?

Might need a SATA to Molex adapter to power it on the little Dell I'm using.

What's the make and model of the HD?

It's a WD Caviar, green label, didn't note the details beyond noticing that.

 

[HCHTech]

I’m just amazed that a company that probably is the 8 maybe even 9 figure value can’t spend $50k to keep a critical function running.

I had a buddy with a small woodworking company, never really made any money, but struggled on for 10 years or so before packing it in. He had 2 giant C&C machines that he got at auctions of other failing businesses (there's your hint right there). They were controlled with Win95 machines too. The company wouldn't support them unless he upgraded to newer computers - which was possible because the company would fly out a tech to install the new connection bits on the machine and install a new computer - $35,000 and change as I recall. There was no way he was going to do that. I stockpiled a couple of replacement machines of the same vintage and made backups of the installation floppies for the controller software. In 2015 I think, I made an image to another IDE drive by mounting it in the machine as a slave and booting from a Norton Ghost floppy - sourced from eBay at the time. The clone would boot the machine, so we called it a success but luckily never had to use it.

 

[Philippe]

I removed the drive and connected it to another system using an IDE to USB 2.0 adapter.

If the adapter is compatible with XP, you can capture the USB port into an XP VM & clone it from there.
FAT32 doesn't support file permissions -> no risks.

IDE SSD

Good working solution: IDE to CF card adapter. I've done this quite often on my retro-gaming PCs. It's easier to find small capacity CF cards! (W95 can only use HDD up to 32Gb).

 

[nlinecomputers]

FAT32 doesn't support file permissions -> no risks.

True. I’m so used to NTFS that I forgot that point. My warning is valid on anything modern, say anything built in the last two decades. LOL

 

[nlinecomputers]

I had a buddy with a small woodworking company, never really made any money, but struggled on for 10 years or so before packing it in. He had 2 giant C&C machines that he got at auctions of other failing businesses (there's your hint right there). They were controlled with Win95 machines too. The company wouldn't support them unless he upgraded to newer computers - which was possible because the company would fly out a tech to install the new connection bits on the machine and install a new computer - $35,000 and change as I recall. There was no way he was going to do that. I stockpiled a couple of replacement machines of the same vintage and made backups of the installation floppies for the controller software. In 2015 I think, I made an image to another IDE drive by mounting it in the machine as a slave and booting from a Norton Ghost floppy - sourced from eBay at the time. The clone would boot the machine, so we called it a success but luckily never had to use it.

I guess I’m used to the oil industry. We have lots C&C or PLC devices too. But almost all of this is Linux based and they’re forced to upgrade or they can’t interoperate with the bigger players in the industry. Siemens, Halliburton, Schlumberger, and so on.

 

[britechguy]

I guess I’m used to the oil industry.

Given that you're in Midland, TX, that's not surprising.

I grew up in Johnstown, PA, not far from @HCHTech's stated location, and I know precisely what he's talking about. There are scads of small businesses operating in the hills of Western PA (and elesewhere) that have been keeping alive ancient equipment, some of which predates the computer era entirely, because it still serves its purpose perfectly and the expense of replacing it would likely put them out of business.

When I saw the original query my mind instantly went to the "Mom n' Pop" or close equivalent that's been operating on a shoestring budget that's nowhere near to even six figures for many, many years. These businesses remain entirely viable for very long periods of time because they fulfill the needs of niche markets and generally at far lower prices, too. This is part of how they keep their prices lower than "the big boys" in their respective spheres. They also tend to have very personal relationships with their clients, the kind you simply cannot get from "the big boys."

 

[Porthos]

the hills of Western PA

 

[Diggs]

I like that idea but find it a little terrifying at the same time. I understand that dd could just as easily clone your empty drive to the good one if you get the parameters wrong.

Sorry I'm a bit late to the party, but running on beach time here. Don't forget that DDrescue has a GUI version. Makes confusing parameters much less likely to happen.

 

[timeshifter]

Don't forget that DDrescue has a GUI version.

I can't forget that, as I didn't know that . Thanks.

 

[Jcake64]

I won't ask the name of the company obvs but had a similar 'problem' with a prestigious US company operating in the UK via a 'friend' an xp system with master and slave units operating an industrial machine in a safety critical sector, (sorry had to cover myself with obscurity) have had to 'replace' both units with ancient 20 year old replacement machines after clone and os repair got them to a working condition, but the stress of constant worry about when they will go offline / fail is little fun I'm ok as it wasn't a job to me just a technical challenge which I enjoy but even I find the accountants love of not spending money amazing, plus 1 for Linux and Clonezilla, just make sure it's the 'right' drive one is copying

 

[AlaDes]

Otherwise, some sort of bootable cloner of your choosing, like Clonezilla, might make sense in this case.

From personal experience, I would go with Clonezilla as mentioned. I have had many situations like you are talking about at the resort that I work at, along with my business outside of work. Equipment that we can't just go with something new because it doesn't exist or, for whatever other reason, we just have to find a work around. Usually, cost doesn't matter here, it's the availability of something new doing the job we need it to do.
One thing I would be very cautious of...make your clone and ALWAYS work with the cloned drive, not the original. I have had cases where software activation was tied to the hard drive instead of the processor, etc. Also, once cloned, try the cloned drive in the existing system to ensure everything works. One concern that I would have about them wanting a backup would be parts for the backup, such as a replacement PC or card like you were talking about because from the sounds of it, if the hardware goes then a backup is no good.

 

[Diggs]

Just a note, I used to use clonezilla but since it limits you to a one-to-one size copy why not use ddrescue (GUI in my case) with its excellent error correcting abilities?

 

[AlaDes]

Just a note, I used to use clonezilla but since it limits you to a one-to-one size copy why not use ddrescue (GUI in my case) with its excellent error correcting abilities?

I have and still do use ddrescue from time to time and I agree, this is an extremely useful tool as well.

 

[NJW]

... I used to use clonezilla but since it limits you to a one-to-one size copy why not use ddrescue (GUI in my case) with its excellent error correcting abilities?

ddrescue has no knowledge of the filesystem and copies everything, whether written with data or not. How is that better than Clonezilla? It takes longer – for a lightly-used disk, much longer – and you still can't restore to a smaller drive. Cloning to a smaller drive is possible with Clonezilla, but unnecessarily fiddly, with too much manual intervention required.

I'm a long-time user of both Clonezilla and ddrescue, but I use a paid copy of Easeus Disk Copy for spinning drive to SSD downsizing.

 

[britechguy]

ddrescue has no knowledge of the filesystem and copies everything, whether written with data or not.

Isn't that the very definition of a clone?

That's the defining difference, as far as I'm concerned, between imaging solutions and cloning. Even when cloning to a smaller drive, you're still taking "everything that fits" and literally duplicating that in the smaller space.

Cloning is "not intelligent" (or at least it isn't relatively speaking) by design.