andcorptech
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You cant really make that argument nowdays. The TSA infringes on human rights on a daily basis now.
Personal Carry
- Thread starter NETWizz
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You cant really make that argument nowdays. The TSA infringes on human rights on a daily basis now.
andcorptech
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I think thats probably the most logical reasoning ive heard in this debate.
I personally cant carry as its illegal in Australia , and I admit it seems weird to me all this talk about "normal" people carrying guns. But thats just the way I have grown up.
I wonder how many crimes it stops though by carrying? Has any one here had to use the gun they carry to defend themselves (not necessarily having fired it )
rsarceno
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Unless you personally know all the criminals in UK then how would you know if they do or they don't. It's all hearsay and no facts. The facts that are recorded only reflect the criminal that where caught. (Maybe the criminal with guns got away
) How can you confirm the info from the government (police) is accurate. They have to justify and support gun restriction. Maybe if the reports comes from NRA then it's more believable.
I not saying your right or wrong, just questioning the facts....
The constitution considers them freedoms, not just me. And while our government does infringe upon freedoms, I don't agree with it nor consider it constitutional.
I'll try to dig this up later, it was 2008 statistic. I'm certain I still have it saved on my personal machine. You can start at the FBI crime stats page.
Does it really matter whether it was gun murder? Two guys die, one by an edge weapon, the other by firearm, they're both dead!
Furthermore each country records homicides differently, so its hard to do an apples to apples comparison. Not to mention cultural and geographical differences of countries make it impossible to do a crime comparison and draw an actionable legislation based on such.
Things are different int he US, we have rampant violence in certain areas, largely due to our failing drug legislation. But guns do make murder easier to an extent, but that doesn't correlate to more guns = more murder. Not to mention statistical crap like below making it really hard to find the correct raw data.
If I stab someone to death, but I have a gun in my pocket, it is recorded as a firearm murder.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov
The bottom line is our constitution was not designed to trade freedom for security. People in favor of a handgun ban are in the minority.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/150341/record-low-favor-handgun-ban.aspx
People who interpret the second amendment in the same manner TechLady does are in the minority.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/105721/Public-Believes-Americans-Right-Own-Guns.aspx
No one opinion is more correct than another, its impossible to find unbiased stats on gun crime, so I form mine based on personal experiences & constitutional precedent.
Once to defend myself from ferrel dogs, that's the only time I've drawn to save myself.
Another time I disarmed an individual threatening others with a knife by simply drawing my weapon from its case and calmly telling him to drop it.
NETWizz
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Well, let's see... 40 times more gun deaths in the USA, which has 5 times the population... Okay, that is 8 times more gun deaths per capita if your info is correct.
NETWizz
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Your really do NOT understand the United States at all, but it's okay. Many Americans are totally clueless, too and media propaganda is making it worse as well as the indoctrination and liberal brainwashing they do at school these days... Repeat after me... We are NOT a democracy. We are NOT a democracy. The United States is NOT a democracy!!!
We are a Constitutional Republic! Thank GOD we are NOT a democracy. A democracy is horrible because it means whatever 51% wants goes. If 51% of people in the UK want to black-list applesauce, beer, and tobacco, the other 49% are SOL (**** Out of Luck).
The purpose of a Constitutional Republic is to protect the rights of not only the majority but also of the minority, and that is what this country is founded on. It simply means if you and a tiny 1% of society you have the right to have a totally different viewpoint, life view, etc. While 99% may consider you totally extreme your crazy political/religious view ARE protected. Even if the other 99% of people despise you, hate you, and want to kill you... they can't!
Hell, the KKK got a judgement allowing them to adopt a Highway! Only in the United States! It was actually determined that the view points of racism are not illegal, but they cannot hurt or discriminate against people just because they don't like their race... As it stands, today, you will STILL find the KKK around, but they are a kinder, more gentler KKK. You see... the Constitution protects unpopular views like those of the KKK, and that is why I bring it up. While I think (and 99% of the population agree) they are a bunch of idiots and bigots running around in white robes for no other reason than to be hated by the African community, they have the right to do that... They just can't burn crosses on people's front lawn anymore without getting prior consent. Obviously, the United Kingdom doesn't even have a KKK... it would be illegal being 99% of people would be against it just like here in the United States.
I hope this somewhat makes sense. In the US, you can go against the status quo even when everyone hates you for it... and it is not illegal.
MobileTechie
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Unless you personally know all the criminals in UK then how would you know if they do or they don't. It's all hearsay and no facts. The facts that are recorded only reflect the criminal that where caught. (Maybe the criminal with guns got away
How can you confirm the info from the government (police) is accurate. They have to justify and support gun restriction. Maybe if the reports comes from NRA then it's more believable.
I not saying your right or wrong, just questioning the facts....
Because nobody, other than you, has ever suggested otherwise. In other words, you are making quite an extraordinary claim with no evidence. It's hardly worth discussing because it's so obviously untrue.
MobileTechie
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No it's 40 times the RATE - per 100,000
MobileTechie
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We have similar people and similar laws protecting them - the English Defence League springs to mind, as do a multitude of nutty Islamic and other extreme groups. I can't really see much difference. And i cannot see how this impacts upon the gun issue.
Something interesting.
Progressive states like California are pretty low on the list--wonder why? Anyway, I'm done now, guys...you may continue comparing your...pieces.
Progressive states like California are pretty low on the list--wonder why? Anyway, I'm done now, guys...you may continue comparing your...pieces.
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gunslinger
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Now thats funny.
hondablaster
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No offense but California is a flat out joke. I am just being objective, the best thing out here the weather and the low cost of education and that is drying up because even that is being exploited. We need all that welfare to keep people from killing each other.
I don't care to partake it the full blown debate. But I did extensive research on this back when I was more passionate and trying to sort out my feelings on such a subject. Those statistics are misleading, gun deaths are higher in states with more guns because a gun is the first choice when committing suicide. People who are committed to taking their own life will always use whatever is easiest first. Its a matter of causation vs correlation.
BTW...More also people die near places with high bridges... That must mean bridges are lethal. Let's tear em down.
Actually 55% of gun deaths are suicide.
tankman1989
Active Member
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When I used to do in home warranty repair for a 3rd party provider I seemed to always get the calles everyone else didn't want. A few times I got to the location and refused to enter, a couple other times I called before going and the "customers"/domestics were in a super heated argument with threats to kill each other and I heard it over the phone - they actually did this while I was confirming the call. Needless to say I didn't go to that call. After a number of calls like this and the "normal" residence I entered I used to carry until I just said I won't do it anymore if it made me feel like that.
Does anyone else who had/has experience with 3rd party warranty repair find that it is often the less than "hospitable" customers who seem to need the service? I don't like to stereotype but when 80% of the calls are of similar experience it says something.
Does anyone else who had/has experience with 3rd party warranty repair find that it is often the less than "hospitable" customers who seem to need the service? I don't like to stereotype but when 80% of the calls are of similar experience it says something.
That's gun deaths, which doesn't tell us anything. You need to include all shooting incidents to evaluate the effectiveness of gun control laws. If you think you learned anything form that article, you were manipulated.
States with better medical facilities are low on the list.
States with sprawled populations and poorer medical care were high on the list.
Not too mention some people die from a .22 to the leg, others survive four .45 calibers to the chest. It's impossible to draw any logical conclusion from "gun deaths" alone.
rsarceno
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- Elk Grove, CA
MobileTechie, I'm not suggesting anything. I'm not claiming anything. In fact on my last reply, "I not saying your right or your wrong." Just questioning where you get you fact regarding less gun means less crime with no gun."
How reliable is your source?
Lone99star
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- Texas
This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.
My rifle, without me, is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will . . . .
My rifle and I know that what counts in this war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit . . . .
My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strengths, its parts, its accessories, its sights, and its barrel. I will ever guard it against the ravages of weather and damage. I will keep my rifle clean and ready, even as I am clean and ready. We will become part of each other. We will . . . .
Before God I swear this creed. My rifle and I are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life.
So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy, but Peace
By: Seal of Honor
My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.
My rifle, without me, is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will . . . .
My rifle and I know that what counts in this war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit . . . .
My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strengths, its parts, its accessories, its sights, and its barrel. I will ever guard it against the ravages of weather and damage. I will keep my rifle clean and ready, even as I am clean and ready. We will become part of each other. We will . . . .
Before God I swear this creed. My rifle and I are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life.
So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy, but Peace
By: Seal of Honor
Xander
Banned
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- Niagara region, Ontario
Ain't indoctrination grand? And, by indoctrination, I mean the US Marines..a military branch of your government. They're not talking about your gun, they're talking about their guns. You know, the ones they will shoot at you while marching down Main Street USA. Hide yo wifes! Hide yo chillun!
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MobileTechie
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- UK
Your point was "Unless you personally know all the criminals in UK then how would you know if they do or they don't. It's all hearsay and no facts. The facts that are recorded only reflect the criminal that where caught. (Maybe the criminal with guns got away
)" I'm saying that this is a pretty ridiculous position to take. Nobody can ever personally know all criminals in a country the size of the UK and therefore your position is unfalsifiable. We can only go on what evidence we do have and that is that tens of thousands of criminals get caught every year yet only a tiny minority are found to have guns. There is no reason to believe that somehow gun ownership magically protects you from being caught. I've never hear anyone other than you, on either side of the debate, ever suggested this as a reason to explain the massive disparity in gun deaths between our two counties. It is self evidently not true.
You guys have something like 88 guns per 100 people, we have about 6. You have over 40 times the gun deaths we do. I think you'll need to come up with some pretty torturous arguments to evade the implication that those two facts are related. Even if all the guns in the UK were criminal owned it would still mean that only a small fraction of them had guns.
I think more fertile ground for your side of the debate is to argue that the deaths would have happened anyway but you just tend to use the guns that are to hand rather than reaching for a knife or bat. If you can demonstate that, you only need to explain triple the overall murder rate.
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I can't help but wonder, just maybe, those deaths might not have happened, if
access to an automatic(or any) weapon in the first place wasn't that easy.
Just my thoughts,
Brad.
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