Need help - and suggestions, lost...

[MCSTECH]

Okay - so heres the situation.....

I went to a new potential client today, who stated their "Backup" isn't working - rarely works, and they are looking to either make it work, or get a new solution.

They pay another company and when that company comes to "help" the backup runs 1 time and then does not work again.

I went their and here is the rundown, (ps Its a daycare center)


Network 1 goes into the church
Daycare seems to be on a "subnet"
Cat5 Internet cable comes from the wall into an 8port switch
1 cable from the switch goes to a wireless router

Computer 1 is what they call a "Server"
P4 3GHZ 2GB -
Windows XP Pro
has a 160gb SATA Tape Drive "Backup" that is changed weekly
Runs Symantic "Server" Backup program
Runs SQL System Service manager
Static IP 192.168.1.2

Computer 2,3, & 4
P4 3Ghz 1GB
Wind XP Pro
225gb HD's about 20GB's Used
Runs SQL System Service manager
Dymanic IP's - all PC's Hardwired to switch
all PC's have 192.168.1.xxx addresses

Computer 5 (laptop in front area)
VERY BASIC - Older Laptop
Windows 2000
512Mb
Wireless Card
IP 192.168.3.1
(This laptop is ONLY used to Check kids IN when they arrive)


Okay, So here we go ...

None of the computers (2,3,4) have BACKUP software on them - the SQL Service Manager (which I know LITTLE to NOTHING about) seems to keep an open connection to the "SERVER" computer, and the "SERVER" computer running SYMANTIC SERVER BACKUP is suppose to initiate the backup at night.

Also the backup (SATA) tape is suppose to stay in for a week then eject it automatically and prompt for a new one. (never happends)

The MAIN software that they use is call Pro-Care Tools, its a childcare database program that is installed on every computer EXCEPT the "Server" - Although there is a database "Procare" folder on the Server where all datapaths lead, and get shared. (its the Onlyplace the database seems to be)

All computers (2,3,4) have shared folders on the network that (2,3,4) can access

I actually have no idea how SQL Server service manager works - and Do not know why Symantic Server Backup isn't working either all computers can Ping on another.

They are frustrated with the "Server" system (Headless- KVM Switch) and SATA Tape system and the amount of $$ they have spent on maintenance to keep it going.

SOLUTIONS ???? SOLUTIONS ???? I NEED SOLUTIONS !!!!!


I was kinda thinking of a NAS Raid 1 (hot swappable) unit that can also act as a file server for that SHARED Database - as a bonus some workers can log in to the NAS from home and maybe "MAP" the drive to work from home.
** Also Primary files would be tagged for on-line offsite backup

2nd Solution -
USE the server but reconfigure it with 2 SATA fixed drives (raid1) - Remove SQL Service manager - Remove Symantic Server Backup - Remove SATA Tape fixed drive. (find a backup GOOOD backup program)

Also either of these solutions or solutions from Technibble techs - What is a GREAT, Low Maintenance Backup solution that can backup multiple computers over a network to a main (computer, NAS)

Thanks guys - I am thinking of just not taking this job as I am unsure of the SQL Service and how it all works, and with my limited knowledge on it, I'd hate to even try to Utilize it and be called back every 2 days for "issues"

PS -They are budgeting about $800 for equipment

 

[Kenhelms]

cheapest would be to make sure their user documents are stored on the server(if you have not done this before, its the properties in the "my documents"), and reinstall Symantec and start from fresh.

I would assume this is Symantec Backup Exec?

Ive use this for years, with narry a problem. It would be easy for a inexpirenced tech to misconfigure it though, which is what may have happened with the previous tech onsite.

 

[MCSTECH]

The Software is Symantec Backup Exec 12 (For windows servers)

I don't know the inner workings of this program - Nor do I own the
program for re-install, I believe the past company "purchased" it for them
but did not leave it onsite.

Does this program need SQL Service to work - How exactly does that work ?

Clearly the computer is not a server - yet the program is a "Server" program

Yes - I can definatately remap the Documents folders - I have not done
anything yet, as they are currently looking for a Quote.

PS. The Sever isn't backing itself up - Its used as a Host PC to backup 2,3,4 onto the server unit - Only thing of relevance that is housed on the "server" is the Procare database folder which ---- I am not sure how its being backed up come to think of it.

PS. Im a A+ Cert tech, just looking for a good solution - that involves as Little maintenance and end user support as possible.

thanks again !!!


ps again - I read some horrible things about the Tape drive SATA backups, - Is this a Bad solution ?? A few articles state that if the firmware is not up to date they behave erratic - also I guess some controllers are funky and just seem to work intermittently.

-Also - If it does work (the Sata Tape) and is taken offsite - should something (catastrophic) happen, the most recent backup is at least a week ago.

 

[TazUk]

Does this program need SQL Service to work - How exactly does that work ?

Backup Exec stores it's catalogues etc. in a SQL database, if the full SQL Server isn't installed then it creates an MSDE/SQL Express instance.

Clearly the computer is not a server - yet the program is a "Server" program

Doesn't matter, it will run quite happily on a workstation

PS. The Sever isn't backing itself up - Its used as a Host PC to backup 2,3,4 onto the server unit - Only thing of relevance that is housed on the "server" is the Procare database folder which ---- I am not sure how its being backed up come to think of it.

You can install the Backup Exec agent on the PC's and back them up using it but it would be better to make sure all the data is on the server PC and just back that up. That way only 1 machine needs to be left on for it to work.

ps again - I read some horrible things about the Tape drive SATA backups, - Is this a Bad solution ??

No reasons why it shouldn't be reliable, most of my customers backup to tape. Just need to make sure the tapes are replaced every 12-18 months and they have a cleaning tape.

If it does work (the Sata Tape) and is taken offsite - should something (catastrophic) happen, the most recent backup is at least a week ago.

Any backup should be taken off site or at least kept in a fire proof safe. I would also recommend taking nightly backups and maybe also a separate one at the end of each month.

 

[Kenhelms]

Howdy,

A backup shoud always be housed off site, if they are using tapes, I would make sure that the user is taking the data home in a purse, or something atleast. even if they do not buy anything from you, that is pivotal. So many people house the backup in the same spot as their server, etc. Never even giving a thought to a building fire, etc. Specially tapes, as they burn real nice and cant berecovered the same way that disk media can after a burn, etc..

symantec is pretty good about replacing lost media, you can give them a call if you would like to obtain new install media. you would just have to reuse the product key, ill do a little expirementing and see if there is a easy way to obtain that.

Tape drives are actually pretty good backup solutions, they are simple and to the point.

The only bad thing about tapes are that they need to clean periodically, and replace the tape about ever year and a half.

The good thing about tapes are that they can do whole shadow restores very easily. symantec makes a good product on their backup systems. No im not a fanboi, I hate their POS antivirus in everyway imaginable, but in all honesty, the backups are great.

I only suggest utilizing their backup solution already, because they are new clients, and if you can get it to work, where the others could not. It will help inspire confidence and refferrals, etc.

 

[MCSTECH]

So, Just a few followup questions then ----

Everybody here LIKES Symantec Exec backup ??

It ONLY needs to be installed on the "Server" ??
*** Is that because Sql System - routes it to the proper pc ?

The Tape backup which is a SATA tape - the client does not seem to like
the idea - they never Eject when they are suppose to, and they have 4 or 5
160GB tapes, one for every week.

The client would (ultimately) like something simpler - that is a set-it, Forget-it solution, And I was thinking of a NAS as well as Carbonite on the Crucial files.

Also the client wants to be able to access shared files (Pro-care tools) from offsite --

I am leary of their current backup solution, just because I know little about the inner workings of it, and I am unable to "Learn" as I go on a paying client who ultimately wants a "FIX" and not on ongoing solution.

And I know it sounds bad - But I am also unwilling to sit at their place of business and Learn the inner workings of their current "non-working" system, as I would not be getting paid for it. - Kind of like cleaning a virus for 5 hours when a Nuke and Pave would be more cost effective for them.

Im not a FAN of the Nuke -but if the cleanup will cost more (in Hours) than the value of the system, then its to be considered.

If I choose to NAS - What is the best NAS Network backup Software, IYO ?

Thanks -

 

[Kenhelms]

you know, it might be better for the client to do a online backup solution like mozy, etc. If you have the storage you can use logmein backup and store it with you, then bill the client.

this is a good standalone http://www.genie-soft.com/products/gbmpro/us/default.html

 

[PorterComp]

Here's my 2 cents.

I wouldn't use Backup Exec in this situation. It's really too much beef for what they need, based on what you've stated. Now, that said, if the childcare software is SQL based then what I'm about to tell you may not be the best solution as most SQL databases need to be "turned off" in order to back up properly. I think Backup Exec does the shadow copy in order to keep from turning off the services. None the less, if it's not an SQL database for that software here's what I would do.

Share a folder on the Server

Redirect the My docs folders on each machine to a folder on the server(teach the users how to use only the my docs folder as it's the only place things will get backed up)
Or...you can use something like NT Backup to run a backup on each machine and then "retrieve" that backup from the server for backup. It's a little more difficult to setup, but just as reliable, plus you can setup multiple folders to backup and no teaching the users.

If you have redirected the my docs folders, then now you have a single point of backup for the workstations on the server. Plus the server info to backup. Install whatever type software you like to run the backup with. Ones like Karenware Replicator or Cobian Amanita are free software solutions (google). Any other purchasable backup software will work too.

I would purchase a few USB HDD and use them for the backup. You can usualluy buy those for about $100 each for a decent size. Set the backups so that they backup daily and have them put a "rotation" in. One drive attached to the server, one on a desk nearby and rotate them. Once a week, take one offsite and rotate it in with the others so that you always have at least one backup offsite and it's never more than a week old.

With most backup software you can schedule backups so do so and make sure you go back the next couple days to make sure it's working and the rotation is working out ok.

Good Luck. don't hesitate to email me if you have any problems or need help. Or post back here, but it'll be monday before I check back here i'm sure.

Live Free, Ride Hard!

 

[SOHO-NZ]

Here my opinion.

Symantec Backup is probably THE most widely respected backup program. Configured correctly it should do this task with ease. Your customer has paid for Rolls Royce - are you going to tell them to change it because you don't know how to service it? - Personally, I would learn how to configure the Symantec backup (on my own time) - this will stand you in good stead for future work with this application.

Now to the backup media. I have found tapes to be quite unforgiving, and relatively expensive (cost per GB, need to clean the drive, need to replace frequently). In this scenario, I usually recommend at least 2 small (ie 2.5") USB hard drives - upto to 500GB nowadays - with a weekly offsite rotation.

It's just my take on this.

 

[MCSTECH]

Steve -

I really appreciate your input on this matter. In doing some reading the Symantec Backup Exec does seem really great, but right now its not working, and the Sata tapes seem to be more than the "center" can handle as they are "daycare" workers and aren't to diligent on computers even as an end user.

I also do think about downloading or learning Symantec, but I feel as if the daycare is already biast against it, and again in truth I dont know how the Sql Service Manager works - And I cant waste a day learning, just to Re-Implement Symantec on-site at the daycare, have it fail and then have the daycare doubt the abilities of my company or backup solution.

Plus Symantec does seem like rolls- royce, but there Data base file is about 2gigs...and I wonder if They need to drive a rolls-royce in a one horse town.

I am looking for something "simplified" --

As for the ProCare Childcare development database Its NOT an SQL database - just a filepath on a drive.

I think I will Remap all the DOCS folders onto a NAS drive and back that up Raid 1 as well as online.

What I am still wondering what the easiest software would be for backup, nd what a really Nice NAS drive would be that is hot-swappable, and has network access as a web-portal.

Well, Anyways I put my bid in ---- and I should hear and be ready to act on Wednesday.... As they really want my company to service their company.

I am proposing the NAS, a reconfiguration of the network (workgroups, Static IP's, etc) Online yearly backup subscription - and Maintenance/Retainer contract for future support and remote support.

 

[studiot]

I should be very careful about providing IT advice/support in the child care field.

Certainly in the UK, normal IT office practice is insufficient data protection, where children are concerned.

As the IT professional you would be liable both criminally and in civil redress for anything that went wrong.