My tech is Stealing from me!!!

[bsd13]

I'm a firm believer in the saying "where there's smoke there's fire".

To me it's clear that your employee shows an indifference to you and your business. In my opinion, when someone shows a propensity to do the wrong thing it's time to let them go. You caught it this time, by mistake. You think it's the first time? You think it will be the last time? I think from now on every time you leave the store you'll be wondering what he's doing and how he's screwing you.

I see it completely different. I see that the employee went above and beyond to try and get the customers issue fixed using his own equipment when the store couldn't supply it.

I also believe he (the OP) set a terrible standard by allowing the tech to use his own equipment in the past on customer service calls.

The only compensation the tech asked for was his stick of RAM. Is that unreasonable to expect? No.

 

[Mushin]

What would you state the reason of termination to be?

The catch all. Unacceptable performance..... for failure to document the sale of inventory or.... For failure to properly document a service call.

Both of which put your company at risk for loss.

 

[Eddie]

I think the fact that you've done this before with the tech set a standard within your company, which is really your responsibility. The tech made a call & based on previous experience within your company.

I wouldn't fire him but you need to set down rules that this sort of thing is a no go in future & just wait for inventory to arrive rather then put your company in the firing line.

 

[JRDtechnet]

So you honestly believe this tech "stole" (or attempted to steal) a customer from you?

If so how is it that the customer called you and not him when it had problems?

Maybe because the customer knows that the tech is an employee figures the tech was working on the companies behalf or 2. the customer tried contacting the tech but he didn't answer his phone and getting frustrated with a faulty computer and knowing the tech is an employee called the company instead.

But that's really irrelevant. My questions are:
1. How did the customer get the techs phone number, you said this was already a client, correct, so assuming the tech was there previously did the tech say "If you ever have any more problems call me direct and I can help you out I only charge $X.XX." and hands the customer his personal business card.

2. If he was working on behalf of the company why wasn't any paper work filled out?

IMO under no circumstances should a tech give his number to a customer, period.

If he is a good tech and you would rather keep him I would setup a sting, make a problem with a good friend's computer (that's unknown to the tech in question) and see how he handles it and whether or not the tech solicits himself for future work. I know some people here might think that's underhanded but you have a business to protect and most small businesses can ill afford an employee trying to undermine them. I would setup 2 stings over the course of a month or two. If there's no inappropriate solicitation by the tech then you can assume the this incident was isolated and an honest mistake and the tech would never have to know he was being setup. If on the other hand he does solicit the customers in the sting then you know 100% for sure he is going behind your back and stealing customers and you can fire him without any doubt or hesitation.

 

[RevivedCS]

I see it completely different. I see that the employee went above and beyond to try and get the customers issue fixed using his own equipment when the store couldn't supply it.

I also believe he (the OP) set a terrible standard by allowing the tech to use his own equipment in the past on customer service calls.

The only compensation the tech asked for was his stick of RAM. Is that unreasonable to expect? No.

The tech didn't ASK for compensation on anything. If he did, there wouldn't be a post.

He already knows that if we don't have the part in stock, it will be in stock in 2-3 days flat.

Using his own equipment does guarantee that he hide the transaction. That statement doesn't make much sense. He did this transaction at my store. The client left a message at the STORE phone stating the aforementioned problems.

Bottom line is this...He's a great Tech but I am going to have to think this totally through. Some of you may, but I can't afford distrust and things like this going on behind my back. Hands down, if the client wouldn't have called, I wouldn't have known about this and this could have easily happened again in the future. There is nothing gray about that.

 

[JustMe]

I look at this scenario from my business perspective.

I am a sole proprietor. I work for myself. I have no employees. However, I have 2 entities - My business self and my personal self.

Lets say I did not have the RAM in stock in my business but had some available personally.

If I sell my personal RAM and pocket the money, it does not reflect in the business sales and reduces the annual income of the business. Sure the money goes into the same pocket but it reduces the value of the business.

If I had RAM in stock to sell, then it is reflected in the business income.

What I would normally do in this senario is sell my personal RAM to the customer, fill out the paperwork, credit the sale and work into the business and have my business self purchase me another stick of RAM for my personal self. If all I had was a used stick of RAM, I inform the customer that I will be ordering a new one for him but that he is welcomed to use my used part until I receive the order and is able to swap out the part. Every transaction stays legitimate with the proper paperwork backing it up.

In business you cannot have a gray area... it has to be black and white. Otherwise try explaining this to the IRS.

I think that the tech involved should have filled out the paperwork and asked for reimbursement of the RAM.

 

[bsd13]

The tech didn't ASK for compensation on anything. If he did, there wouldn't be a post.

I thought you said he charged the customer $50. That's the compensation I was talking about. He didn't ask for what was rightfully his, he took it.

I used to work for tmobile who as I'm sure you know sells phones. One day at the call center a friend came to visit me for lunch and bought my personal tmobile phone from me for $150.00 in the middle of lunch on company property. Which means that tmobile lost out on a $250 sale of a new phone. Did I steal a customer from tmobile?

 

[Fubs]

This is like dealing with a cheating spouse, once the trust is broken it's hard to get back to the honeymoon. In any case, I found it shady of the employee for not reporting the sale. You could chaulk it up to him being lazy or something, but on the opposite side, just like in a married relationship, if he does something with a customer that he would normally not do infront of you, he's doing something wrong. Because he was so quiet about it and did not bother mentioning the sale, I have a feeling that he's been "helping" you out like this in the past.

Rather than do a sting, just call the customer who left the message and asked directly whether your employee made it out to look like this was a part that "he" the employee was selling on the side or as something sold legitimately through the shop. Here you can find out if he's trying to steal away customers or sales. Next, if you decide to keep him, you should talk to him about what he did and why that's no longer acceptable. If you want to teach some basic econ, you can explain to him that while that might be his part, it is also YOUR your shop, your advertisement, your insurance you pay on the shop, etc. that ultimately led to the customer coming into the shop in the first place. Also when you sell RAM, I assume you charge $50.00 flat fee for parts and INSTALLATION. Part of that $50 you charge, goes to the wages that you pay your employee to install the ram (I assume that is the case in your shop). So again, it's not only stealing away a potential sale, but also robbing you of time.

Now whichever way you play this out, I recommend you install a high quality camera in the shop in the work areas. It keeps the employees honest, can serve as good protection in case of theft or fraud. My uncle used cameras to catch an employee (his best tech) steal his customers as well as goofing off while my uncle was out of the shop. The tech got caught on camera doing nothing on company time, but the clincher was he was typing on IM to his girlfriend and the two talked about how he was stealing customer's from his boss and had been doing so for months.

So for your peace of mind, you might have to let this guy go.

 

[RevivedCS]

This is like dealing with a cheating spouse, once the trust is broken it's hard to get back to the honeymoon. In any case, I found it shady of the employee for not reporting the sale. You could chaulk it up to him being lazy or something, but on the opposite side, just like in a married relationship, if he does something with a customer that he would normally not do infront of you, he's doing something wrong. Because he was so quiet about it and did not bother mentioning the sale, I have a feeling that he's been "helping" you out like this in the past.

Rather than do a sting, just call the customer who left the message and asked directly whether your employee made it out to look like this was a part that "he" the employee was selling on the side or as something sold legitimately through the shop. Here you can find out if he's trying to steal away customers or sales. Next, if you decide to keep him, you should talk to him about what he did and why that's no longer acceptable. If you want to teach some basic econ, you can explain to him that while that might be his part, it is also YOUR your shop, your advertisement, your insurance you pay on the shop, etc. that ultimately led to the customer coming into the shop in the first place. Also when you sell RAM, I assume you charge $50.00 flat fee for parts and INSTALLATION. Part of that $50 you charge, goes to the wages that you pay your employee to install the ram (I assume that is the case in your shop). So again, it's not only stealing away a potential sale, but also robbing you of time.

Now whichever way you play this out, I recommend you install a high quality camera in the shop in the work areas. It keeps the employees honest, can serve as good protection in case of theft or fraud. My uncle used cameras to catch an employee (his best tech) steal his customers as well as goofing off while my uncle was out of the shop. The tech got caught on camera doing nothing on company time, but the clincher was he was typing on IM to his girlfriend and the two talked about how he was stealing customer's from his boss and had been doing so for months.

So for your peace of mind, you might have to let this guy go.

This was one of the best pieces of advice so far.

I am not one for making another look bad but I have seen him IM'ing on Y.Messenger in times past and told him that's against company policy.

Fubs, thanks for that wonderful piece and thanks to all who have opened up your hearts and minds to me. I appreciate it. Feel free to go on if you desire but I think my mind is made up.

 

[Alan22]

The tech didn't ASK for compensation on anything. If he did, there wouldn't be a post.

He already knows that if we don't have the part in stock, it will be in stock in 2-3 days flat.

Using his own equipment does guarantee that he hide the transaction. That statement doesn't make much sense. He did this transaction at my store. The client left a message at the STORE phone stating the aforementioned problems.

Bottom line is this...He's a great Tech but I am going to have to think this totally through. Some of you may, but I can't afford distrust and things like this going on behind my back. Hands down, if the client wouldn't have called, I wouldn't have known about this and this could have easily happened again in the future. There is nothing gray about that.

It can easily happen again now. Just because he was found out and confronted does not mean it will stop. Maybe it will stop for a little while, but when opportunities present themselves things will go back to "normal" if you know what I mean.

I have a bit of a unique perspective and my opinion is formed from my experience with loss prevention. For a couple of my clients I spot check their retail locations, drill through sales transactions and look for anything out of the ordinary that points to shrinkage & theft (these guys have 40 retail locations between them). Over the last 3 years I've caught approx. 70 people in different acts of theft, such as: directly pocketing money from the register, under-ringing sales, giving product away, taking bulk product home, selling bulk product to competing businesses (and keeping the cash) and a whole host of other stunts.

Employees caught doing something wrong are terminated and sometimes prosecuted. On some occassions the employee will apologize, give a sob story, and will be given a second chance. Every single time, without exception, the employee goes back to doing what got them fired in the first place, or come up with a new scheme. Every single time!

So, my opinion is that when someone shows they cannot be trusted, well, they cannot be trusted. This reminds of the tale (there are many variations) of the frog and the snake. A snake asks a frog to carry him across a river. The frog refuses, afraid that the snake will bite him when they get to the other side. The snake promises he will not bite the frog. So, the frog helps the snake to the other side of the river, where the snake immediately bites the frog. The frog says "Why did you bite me after I helped you? ". The snake says "Because I'm a snake. That's what I do."

 

[vdub12]

I would also talk to your lawyer about the best way to handle/word it. If you do it wrong, he could get unemployment that he isn't really entitled to or, worse, sue you.

It depends on where your located. In California it's really not worth suing someone even for wrongful termination because the lawyers and fees are much greater then you could gain after the suet. It can easily cost an X employee 30,000 to 40,000 before the first day of court even starts. I know this because I looked in to suing my previous employer for wrongful termination and it just wasn't worth it. When it came down to the bras tax being wrongfully terminated got me to start my business so I am better off. On the flip side the guy still screwed me. So its a hard call but if a lawsuit does proceed its because the previous employee has lots of money to burn and just wants to get his story heard.

Then setup an appointment with the customer to remove the techs ram, hand it back to him and replace it with ram from the store's inventory. The tech should then hand you the $50.00 he was paid (since he got the ram back) and then you bill the customer the difference for the part and labor.

You can't do this. This is not the customers fault and he should not be liable. This is the problem with employees doing this kind of stuff because if this ram turns out to be bad the business has to eat it. You can't charge the customer unless you truly want to loose him.

I think the fact that you've done this before with the tech set a standard within your company, which is really your responsibility. The tech made a call & based on previous experience within your company.

I wouldn't fire him but you need to set down rules that this sort of thing is a no go in future & just wait for inventory to arrive rather then put your company in the firing line.

I have to agree. I don't think the tech should be fired in this situation. However, I would make a permanent record of this and create a new terms of employment and have everyone sign it. If anything like this happens again hes gone, no question. However, in this situation its my personal opinion that he should be given a chance to make it right and save his job.

I thought you said he charged the customer $50. That's the compensation I was talking about. He didn't ask for what was rightfully his, he took it.

I used to work for tmobile who as I'm sure you know sells phones. One day at the call center a friend came to visit me for lunch and bought my personal tmobile phone from me for $150.00 in the middle of lunch on company property. Which means that tmobile lost out on a $250 sale of a new phone. Did I steal a customer from tmobile?

Um, yes you where creating a conflict. Just like if I worked at an auto parts store and sold a customer a set of spark plugs out of my truck at lunch.

Back when I worked as a tech I was not allowed to moonlight as a tech no exceptions. I also lived in a different city as the place I worked for. I notice many people in this forum that work on the side while working for a computer shop. This is a conflict and I think everyone trying to run there own computer repair business on the side while working for another computer repair business should get there walking papers. Fact is what if your side business explodes and you quit your full time job and start hiring more techs and they start working on the side. If you work for a computer repair shop and someone asks you to fix there computer you send them to the place you work. You don't do it on the side.

This situation I don't think is as clear cut as this and I don't think he should be fired. However, I do think he should know what he did wrong. Maybe even tell him to stay home for a week and loose a weeks pay. In that week if he goes out and does side work, hes gone.

 

[Puff]

If you want to sell your own parts and if you want to pocket the money from your own sale then you need to open your own store.

Whatever you decide is your business but if it were me, I know one thing for sure. I would leave the customer out of it. Not only because it's not the customers fault but you don't want to put your customer into some sort of awkward position.

Either way, good luck with your decision.

 

[Screwloose]

I used to work for tmobile who as I'm sure you know sells phones. One day at the call center a friend came to visit me for lunch and bought my personal tmobile phone from me for $150.00 in the middle of lunch on company property. Which means that tmobile lost out on a $250 sale of a new phone. Did I steal a customer from tmobile?

I would say you did not steal a T-mobile customer... do you think if your friend had not come to lunch at your work that day and bought your phone he would have definately bought a new phone from T-Mobile? You dont think he would have shopped around on ebay or craigslist or anywhere else and bought a used phone? Or maybe bought the phone from you at another location like your home?

The only real thing I can see wrong with your scenario is that you conducted personal business on company property ... no matter if it was T-Mobile or anywhere else. Now if you were going up to T-Mobile customers who were on their way in and saying "Hey, I have the same phone for $100 cheaper come over here to my car and I'll sell it to you" ... then yes ... that is stealing customers.

 

[Hercomputers]

My, has this thread grown--

 

[RevivedCS]

If you want to sell your own parts and if you want to pocket the money from your own sale then you need to open your own store.

Whatever you decide is your business but if it were me, I know one thing for sure. I would leave the customer out of it. Not only because it's not the customers fault but you don't want to put your customer into some sort of awkward position.

Either way, good luck with your decision.

One thing is for certain. The customer will be taken care of. How I questioned the customer gave him not inclination that he was telling on the tech. I simply asked him to bring it in and call my cell phone when he comes and I'll make it right. I'm not going to charge the customer a thing...at this point, I need to make sure he's taken care of.

Yes, this thread really has grown skaterizme.

 

[anonymous Mac Tech]

Back when I worked as a tech I was not allowed to moonlight as a tech no exceptions. I also lived in a different city as the place I worked for. I notice many people in this forum that work on the side while working for a computer shop. This is a conflict and I think everyone trying to run there own computer repair business on the side while working for another computer repair business should get there walking papers.

This is a good point. Friends and family are one thing, but taking paying customers anywhere near the same geographical location is a conflict. If the guy had the RAM in his car to supply this customer, along with whatever parts he "gave" the shop, its a good bet he's been curbing customers for himself.

 

[usacvlr]

Non compete agreements are illegal in california. No idea about other states. If he takes your customer while he's still working for you then I would let him go.

 

[BrianB]

Non compete agreements are illegal in california.

I sure as heck signed a boatload of them as a W-9 contractor, so is this a recent development?

 

[BrianB]

I think the core problem here isn't that the employee stole a customer or did work and pocketed the money.

The core problem is that the OP failed to establish a proper professional relationship with the tech. Letting the tech use his own parts for repairs and not reimbursing him set a very bad precedent. In my opinion, that's giving too much control to the employee, and treating him more like a partner. I don't think there's a fix for this. It's going to be very difficult to establish a good working relationship with the employee after this. (Note, not re-establish, b/c one didn't exist to begin with.)

While I've always used established procedures and made my employees stick to them, I have made the mistake of being over friendly with my subordinates myself, and I can say from personal experience that it doesn't work.

 

[ForsitheComputers]

Fire him. End of discussion. Hes proven that he is not trustworthy and doesn't care about your interests or you business. Fire him. Period.

Regardless of the policy that you may have you should be able to hire someone that KNOWS whats right and wrong.