Microsoft security essentials on very bottom of list

Galdorf

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Am i surprised no more or less Microsoft is out the antivirus business besides antivirus is dead, white listing
is were it is at now as far as malware is concerned i have tested a few they do a really good job.
 
MSE has been on the bottom for years and has been considered for some time by AV-Test and even better, AV-comparatives.org as a "Baseline" standard for comparison for everyone else. I had quite a few posts in 2011 on TN lambasting MSE and Microsoft. Microsoft needs to be in the business of fixing their OS and the vulnerabilities in it, instead, they resort to a half-baked security product for protection. If I'm not mistaken, MSE lost it's certificate from AV Test in 2011 and in 2012 MSE hit the bottom of the charts.
 
AV-Test.org is sorta OK for reviews, I really focus more on AV-Comparatives. While I'm happy to agree about BitDefender up top...and kaspersky and Qihoo make sense to see up towards the top, seeing AVG above Eset is very very hard to believe.

ThreatTrack..that's Viper..GFI...right? //snickers...since it's second from the last
 
ThreatTrack..that's Viper..GFI...right? //snickers...since it's second from the last

Right, WTF! Can't wait for GFI to pickup BD.. any day now :oops:

I don't get it though, I have over 250 people on GFI Vipre and I have had 4 actual problems with it, 3 of them virus related. I can't make heads and tails of what I see in the reviews vs. what I see for my customers.
 
I don't get it though, I have over 250 people on GFI Vipre and I have had 4 actual problems with it, 3 of them virus related. I can't make heads and tails of what I see in the reviews vs. what I see for my customers.
I am using GFI Vipre as well and have had pretty good results with it. I would like to hear what others think about my thought on why it is rated so low:

I think a big factor in the AV-TEST comparative is "out of the box" detection. Installing with defaults. (I seem to remember reading that on their site a while back). But by default, at least in GFI, Vipre doesn't detect PUPs. I review and modify the protection policy to detect PUPs. Could that be something to do with why I get better results than the tests show?
 
I as well see opposite of what the tests show, without an explanation, but I am interested to see the MSP version of BD since it does rank so well.
 
I as well see opposite of what the tests show, without an explanation.

I find tests like these generally don't reflect real-world usage at all. Certainly they have some academic value, and they can be useful in helping to choose an anti-virus solution, but I would never base my choice purely on any of these results.

These tests essentially bombard the anti-virus software with hundreds of known malware files and generate scores based on detection rates, ranking the anti-virus software more by 'how much' got through than 'what' got through. In the real world, the nature of the threat is far more important. I think if you were to compare detection results of each of these anti-virus solutions against well-known, serious/malicious threats, they would all rank the same; there's just no reason to leave a serious known threat out of the virus definitions.

However, if we're talking about the less destructive 'nuisance' infections, especially those that border or cross into the PUP category, it's a very different story, since there's differing views on whether some of this stuff is malicious and even whether it's the responsibility of the anti-virus software to police it.

Then there's the presently unknown malware. If you don't know it exists, how are you going to find it to test detection rates? Sure you can probably find some zero-day stuff and beat some of the anti-virus vendors in the race to update their virus definition files, but then that would reflect more on how frequently updates are released by each vendor than their software's detection rates.


As for Microsoft Security Essentials, well, the clue is in the name really. It focuses on providing basic protection. That is, protection that focuses on preventing known, serious malware infections.

I have to admit, like a lot of people here I jumped ship when MSE began doing poorly in the ratings and I started using numerous alternatives instead. For the very few residential customers I have, I would probably still recommend something other than MSE, especially for those who like to 'live on the edge' a little with their browsing and email habits. But, for business use, MSE still gives me the least hassle.

I've tried various other anti-virus solutions but they're either too intrusive (notification-wise), too resource intensive or they don't play well with some of the more unusual LOB software. In a business environment, if you've got everything properly locked down with good security practices, I would argue that MSE (or its lesser-known twin, 'Security Center Endpoint Protection') will provide just as much protection against serious infection as most other solutions. In fact, I use MSE/SCEP on many of my business customer's machines (probably over 100 in total) and, in the the last 5 years or more, I can't recall a single infection, let alone a serious one. With good security practices/policies, in my experience, infections will be few, and probably no more than with any other solution.

There are of course other reasons to push alternatives to MSE, and I know for many people on here one reason is the additional revenue some of the alternatives can provide. While I've considered this route a number of times, my experiences with most third party anti-virus solutions, and the problems they inevitably seem to cause with some LOB software, has deterred me from using them. They create more hassle than the malware to be honest. And, if a user does manage to somehow infect their computer, they generally blame themselves (and of course I'm the hero when I come to the rescue). On the other hand, if the anti-virus software I install causes LOB software issues, I'm the one to blame. The few quid profit I might make per AV subscription just isn't worth the hassle for me.

I use MSE with MBAM as a weekly sweep. Then again - it's not like I'm a normal user;)
Same here.

Although it's probably more like monthly for me, unless I have reason to believe there's something on there (which is rare) .... the scan results invariably show a clean system.
 
I am using GFI Vipre as well and have had pretty good results with it. I would like to hear what others think about my thought on why it is rated so low:

We've taken over clients from other consultants have had had GFI on there....and when we removed that and put ours on, be it Eset, or back in the day when N-Able did Panda, or curently BitD...we'll see that first scan clean up quite a bit that Vipre missed. I take AV-Tests results with a grain of salt...however AV-Comparatives quite consistently has Vipre in the lower 50% and I find their real time tests quite good.
 
Our testing with clients puts ESET near the top with Kaspersky. I think this is the first results I've seen that have buried ESET so low. Evidently ESET must of declined some donations or didn't take their call. I don't think anyone that does this stuff daily would rank ESET that low. jmho
 
I have to admit, like a lot of people here I jumped ship when MSE began doing poorly in the ratings and I started using numerous alternatives instead. For the very few residential customers I have, I would probably still recommend something other than MSE, especially for those who like to 'live on the edge' a little with their browsing and email habits. But, for business use, MSE still gives me the least hassle.

I've tried various other anti-virus solutions but they're either too intrusive (notification-wise), too resource intensive or they don't play well with some of the more unusual LOB software.

And that right there is actually worth a lot of value, makes sense.
When MSE first came out it kicked butt...was a great product, and towards the top of the charts at AV-Comparatives for their real world dynamics test. And I saw plenty of proof myself that it was working well, similar to Microsofts MRT. But when MSE started failing....I started perusing other freebie alternatives. Of course the other freebies aren't licensed to be used in businesses...only MSE is. But for home users....have to admit I started looking at other freebies. Seems all of them have some sort of pain in the butt annoying thing like registration, and constant nags to upgrade. And after a few years of paying attention to this...every brand out there has had some instability related to some bad def update. Look at Panda's big "oops" a few weeks ago...where it ate Windows system files. AVG and Avast have had their share of "oops updates" over the past couple of years.

Yup..haven't seen MSE do any big "oops".
 
It seems like if you are knowledgeable about basic things to avoid doing on the Internet and have some sort of basic AV protection scheme in place, things are fine. On my office PC, I use MSE, in combination with NoScript, and WOT, and I never install anything where I am even the least bit suspicious of whether it's tainted.

MSE actually alerted me once while doing a scheduled scan, and I realized that I had some malware. I have become more suspicious/careful about what I put on my computer, since then.
 
The problem though is that most customers don't do that. They use the internet and when their computer gets infected they need help fixing it.

Getting a good AV in place and protecting their system for them is really the only way to go.
 
It seems like if you are knowledgeable about basic things to avoid doing on the Internet and have some sort of basic AV protection scheme in place, things are fine. .

Even if one is knowledgeable, since so many things are done on the internet these days, and with the prevalence of malware being spread by advertising subscriptions on normal every days websites....it's quite easy to get zapped.

I used to be a member of another tech forum, a HUGE tech forum, and at least twice...I saw their forums hacked and/or advertising streams poisoned, and malware drive-by's were happening for a while until it was discovered. You'd think you were safe spending time at a huge tech forum, no?

One day you might log into these forums here...and BAM!
 
I don't run any protection. I just wait for those nice gentlemen from Microsoft Support to call me letting me know my computer is infected.
It's hard to understand them from time to time, but they remote in and clean me up and all they ask is for some numbers on a plastic card I keep in my wallet.
I'll never understand why you people PAY for protection!
 
Seems all of them have some sort of pain in the butt annoying thing like registration, and constant nags to upgrade. And after a few years of paying attention to this...every brand out there has had some instability related to some bad def update. Look at Panda's big "oops" a few weeks ago...where it ate Windows system files. AVG and Avast have had their share of "oops updates" over the past couple of years.

Tell me about it!

The Panda and Avast oops-es in particular caused me a few very stressful days, and even before those events, their intrusive behaviour was beginning to really annoy me. I'd already started switching some low-risk business systems back to MSE; now most of my business customers are back on it.

I don't want to sound like I'm trying to defend MSE, because I'm not; it is what it is and it has its weaknesses. Fact is though, it does a perfectly adequate job, in my experience, of keeping business machines free from serious, known infections. While other anti-virus software may be eagerly issuing speeding tickets by the hundreds, MSE quietly sits there taking out the real bad guys. Assuming other security practices are good, that's precisely what you need.

One problem that's hard to overcome now though is its bad reputation, one that I don't think is entirely deserved or justified. And because bad reps travel the internet at (close to) the speed of light these days, suddenly everybody and his dog has formed the collective opinion that MSE is broke.


An example of this widespread misinformation:

A CCTV guy was working at one of my customer's premises recently (and, I might add, that it took him 4 attempts/visits to get the basic DVR he'd installed properly configured and working). Now, apparently this guy also does a little IT support on-the-side ...

On one of his visits, while using one of my customer's PC, he alarmed my customer by telling him the computer had "no security". The computer he was referring to was a tightly locked-down, fully-up-to-date workstation, with a non-admin user account, strict security policies, a fully enabled firewall and MSE, visibly glowing green in the system tray.

Thankfully, since I've been keeping this particular customer's computers secure for over 10 years, he took my word over that of the wannabe tech (especially since he was clearly struggling to figure out how to make his DVR work), and fortunately most of my customers have known me long enough to trust my opinion. Unfortunately though, as a tech, this is what you're up against; unless a customer knows you well enough to trust you, you risk looking unprofessional because of misinformed collective opinions.



When someone asks me these days which anti-virus software is "best", my immediate response is "define 'best' ".
 
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I don't run any protection. I just wait for those nice gentlemen from Microsoft Support to call me letting me know my computer is infected.
It's hard to understand them from time to time, but they remote in and clean me up and all they ask is for some numbers on a plastic card I keep in my wallet.
I'll never understand why you people PAY for protection!
lmao :D
 
Tell me about it!
When someone asks me these days which anti-virus software is "best", my immediate response is "define 'best' ".

This.

Best can be defined in alot of different ways. I don't recommend free anti-virus of any kind myself, but I know others see it differently.

If someone asks me will MSSE protect my computer, I will tell them that no anti-virus you can buy can guarantee your computer will be kept clean, and that I feel a paid AV will generally go a long way past free.

This usually transitions into a sales pitch for MSP services with Unlimited Virus Removals.
 
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