Loaner Laptops using Windows 10's reset

[Blue House Computer Help]

Thinking about setting up some laptops to loan out while I work on the customer's PCs. I was thinking of taking and restoring an image every time, but that could really drag on and keeping images updated is a real pain.

@Diggs said this about it:

I keep a couple of laptop loaners around and use reset between uses.

So does anyone else do Loaner Laptops this way? Do you reset keeping apps but not files?

And is this enough to make sure your don't get any data leakage from one person to the next, even if they have saved data files outside the user's folders?

Any other ways of doing the same thing? I had thought about using Comodo Time Machine's snapshotting capability, but it seems to have some compatibility problems with SSDs.

 

[britechguy]

Unless you drive wipe between the individuals you lend to, any "sophisticated user" who had the inclination could use data recovery tools commonly available to attempt to extract data that still resides in what is now free space.

All of the Reset, Refresh, and clean install techniques that do not involve a drive wipe leave the data behind. All that happens is that it now resides in an area now marked as free space from a quick reformat, but it doesn't "disappear."

You can easily use the instructions I give out frequently to clients who want to DIY prep their computers for passing on to someone else: Doing a Completely Clean (Re)install of Windows 10 Using Media Creation Tool to Create Bootable Win10 Install Media on a USB Thumb Drive

I specifically note in there that if you're doing this for yourself, using the CLEAN command of DISKPART is sufficient, because the drive is not going to land in someone else's hands. If it is going to someone else, you must use CLEAN ALL, to ensure the drive has been wiped with zero filling before you continue on to reinstall Windows 10.

There's nothing complicated about doing a completely clean reinstall, and after you kick off the CLEAN ALL step you can just go about your other business doing other things until it's had whatever time it needs to wipe the drive based on drive size. (And since MS seems to have made all the classic commands function as you'd expect they would on an SSD, but using the underlying method(s) an SSD uses to accomplish the same thing as a HDD does, I imagine CLEAN ALL will be much, much faster on an SSD regardless of exactly how the wipe is accomplished).

 

[Mick]

I agree with @Computer Bloke. I have one old Toshiba Satellite that I keep handy just in case anyone ever asks - but no-one ever has.

 

[Blue House Computer Help]

Interesting...

Good point about setting up phone email and chargeability.

My thought was to advertise it as a bonus to outshine the competition. (Also, I would probably charge for any non-standard software that needed installing). But I admit that as a new start-up I'm kind of shooting in the dark.

I guess I'll just have a few ready and see how it goes.

Speaking of shooting in the dark, any links to any good forum posts on market research? *sigh*

I really am a noob at the business side of this...

 

[Mick]

I'd suggest you work out what/who your target market is as a first step. If you're a one-man band, then the business market (server provision/maintenance etc) is going to be tough. Lucrative, sometimes, but tough. If you want your evenings and weekends free - forget it. Because that's when they want stuff done, when it doesn't affect their business. And you better be good, too, because one extra day's downtime for your business customers because of something you did/didn't do and they will be off. Not to mention needing to deal with that git in the office who 'knows a bit about computers' and who has the boss's ear and is constantly feeding him junk.

The residential market is a different game. Here, your customer skills are just as important as your technical ability. You need to be able to get these people on your side, whether that's by going the extra mile with their problem or by being prepared to sit and listen to their life-stories. And the reason you need to do this is because word-of-mouth is your best marketing tool. You need them to recommend you - and they will, if they like you and what you've done for them.

One other thing: Lots of people spend a fortune in either time or money on a flashy website, or a permanent blizzard of tweets or FB posts. Don't bother. The great thing about the web is that it's global in reach. But you don't really want to be going more than, say, ten miles in any direction. So keep your advertising targeted and local. Just my two-pennorth.

 

[Markverhyden]

Like @Mick said, get a plan. But also take a cue from the existing market segment and it's recent history. The IT industry has been around for several decades, the last 20 really spreading across the globe and throughout society. You can bet if you have an idea today that you think might be viable it's almost certainly been attempted by others before. And failure was the result. But it never hurts to try something once or twice. Maybe you'll get the correct mix of ingredients.

I agree with the comments above about nuking between users. You never know what they might have or do so you want to limit your exposure. One thought, since you would be re-using the same machine would be a WDS server. But that requires you to have a licensed server install. If you do subscribe to Action Pack you'll have one. Otherwise you can just do it the old fashioned way so to speak. Build the drive as you like it for each machine, then store the image using Clonezilla or similar to a external drive.

Licensing. Technically you can't rent out those machines as that's a EULA violation. So they need to be free to use. But you'll also need to collect a refundable deposit each time one goes out.

And don't forget they'll be expecting you to field support calls on those machines if they have any issues.

Getting the picture? You'd be spending more time for the same pay. It's supposed to be the opposite to succeed. More pay for the same time.

 

[Diggs]

Seems no one here uses the reset option. Reset has the option built in to CLEAN and the way I understand it that function is CLEAN ALL.

 

[britechguy]

Seems no one here uses the reset option. Reset has the option built in to CLEAN and the way I understand it that function is CLEAN ALL.

You are indeed correct that Reset has had a Data Erasure option added, of which I was unaware, as I don't use Reset. The default is OFF.

See: Recovery Options in Windows 10

That option definitely was not there in earlier versions of Windows 10 when I was experimenting with Reset before I dumped it because it did not, and still does not, have an option to retain BOTH files AND apps that you installed. I generally prefer Doing a Windows 10 Repair Install or Feature Update Using the Windows 10 ISO file in the vast majority of cases, though the "passing on a machine to a different custodian/owner" would definitely not be one of those.

It's good to know that this option exists, as I can see using Reset when I would have previously done a completely clean reinstall that included a CLEAN ALL.

 

[Porthos]

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/12415/windows-10-recovery-options#section2

Note: Remove everything > Change settings gives you two options.

Data erasure On removes files and cleans the drive. If you're planning to donate, recycle, or sell your PC, use this option. This might take an hour or two, but it makes it harder for other people to recover files you've removed.

Data erasure Off just removes files. It takes less time, but is less secure.

 

[carmen617]

Or just encrypt the drive with Bitlocker then format and reinstall. Which is how I reuse SSD's, as I don't trust any of those write zero erasures for them. But I agree that loaner machines are more trouble than they are worth.

 

[GTP]

At one time I had loaner laptops (and desktops as well) but it got tedious and costly with clients wanting email, programs and everything else working as it was on there's.

Sure I could clone their drive, Fabs it etc, but then they didnt have license keys for software etc especially Adobe software, Office or email passwords either.

Then after they took it came the barrage of phone calls that "this doesnt do what i want, this or that isnt working" yada yada.

Suddenly a $155 job becomes a $350 job with me have to bare the lost unbillable time. While I'm trying to get them working I'm not working on other clients (or their own PC).

So I dont do it anymore. Yeah I know, Windoze 10 is easy to setup but that still takes time and we still have the other problems. It's just so much easier to get their PC back to them ASAP.

It's a no from me.

 

[Phillip Manning]

Do you reset keeping apps but not files?

Note that a reset only removes personal files saved in the user folder, keep an eye out for anything saved in the root of C drive, anything saved there will still be there after a reset.

 

[timeshifter]

At one time I had loaner laptops (and desktops as well) but it got tedious and costly with clients wanting email, programs and everything else working as it was on there's.

That's the crux of the matter right there. Very few, if any, customers will be OK with a stock machine. Every customer I've ever worked with seems to have some impairment when it comes to technology, which means every setup is a custom setup. Installing Windows is easy. Getting all of their apps, contacts, data, shortcuts, etc in a place where they'll be productive is the most time consuming part. I'm not going to do that twice.

 

[britechguy]

Getting all of their apps, contacts, data, shortcuts, etc in a place where they'll be productive is the most time consuming part.

Yep. And on those occasions where they've purchased a new machine, that's actually what they're paying me for.

But they're never paying me for that for a loaner when their own machine is in for service, in my experience. I agree with all those who've said loaner machines are a horrid thing in practice just because they become such a high maintenance item in every sense.

Great in theory, awful in practice.

 

[Blue House Computer Help]

Ok... Hmm... A lot to chew on.

I'm not quite ready to give up on the idea completely yet but I'm going to test run it with a few friends first and see how much actual stuff needs doing to it.

I have a few follow up questions to ask about some of the comments here, but I have to go so I'll save them for a little bit later.

 

[Blue House Computer Help]

For me, this is first and foremost intended as a startup thing to get the phones ringing, to show I'll go the extra mile.

Right at this point, I have much more time to give away than I have chargeable hours to worry about maximizing. Of course when things get more busy, the loaner laptop thing can mostly discontinue if need be.

I do totally hear you guys about the risks and extra work involved though. You really nailed a few thing I hadn't thought about, and things I need to do to limit my exposure.

The windows resetting tips are really useful as well. Thanks all for that.

@Mick - Wise words. The plan is very much for the local residential market. That's a much better fit for my personality. And good point about the targeted and local advertising.

@Markverhyden: Interesting point about ideas that have ended in failure. Any you can suggest that have ended in success?

Just to take the conversation off in a slightly different direction, what else did you guys do as startups that really worked to get things going, and what really didn't?

 

[Diggs]

Me thinks you guys over think this. We all have extra laptops on hand so no expense there. It doesn't happen often - couple times a year for me. Doesn't take much time or effort. I don't even get a receipt. I just hand it to them. Great customer relations. Customers have no expectation of apps or retaining anything. Not once have I had any calls for support or data on the machine. Geez - Maybe figure out ways to help your customers.

 

[GTP]

Geez - Maybe figure out ways to help your customers.

well, excuse me!
I have done it many more times than "a couple times a year" and I have had the barrage of after hours calls about where is such and such.
One of the best "ways to help your customers" is to fix their device and get it back to them asap.

 

[Diggs]

well, excuse me!

Sorry @Barcelona it wasn't meant to be personal. I was being a bit snarky because everyone coming up with reasons not to help a customer with a loaner instead of helping. I don't do after-hours calls unless I want to as my phones shut down and go to mail after 6:00 PM.

 

[britechguy]

Sorry @Barcelona. . . because everyone coming up with reasons not to help a customer with a loaner instead of helping.

That's your perspective, and you are, truly, welcome to it.

Life is about balance, and part of that balance is avoiding unnecessary headaches. For me, a loaner program is a very, very unnecessary headache that does little to benefit my clients and a lot to make my own life more complicated.

There's nothing at all wrong with wanting to avoid complications that can easily be avoided and follow what's pretty typical business practice. It has nothing to do with whether or not I wish to help my clientele. And they are not now, and never have been, the sole consideration.