Later model Dell Inspiron 17 occasional fail to boot with a BOOP

[carmen617]

OK, apologies in advance for the length of this post, but . . .

So, I do residential break fix and this system isn't that old - originally came with Windows 8, crappy consumer level 17" Dell laptop. Client calls to tell me she can't boot the system, it's been slow and balky and now it won't load at all, it's just making an awful beeping noise. I diagnose over the phone as a potential bad hard drive, tell her I can replace the drive with an SSD and maybe get her data, maybe not. She says data not that important, she doesn't use it much but wants it for ZOOM meetings, just fix it as I see best, and drops it off for a drive replacement.

When I get the system the battery is drained, and when I plug in a charger, no response. However, removing the battery and power supply, holding the power button down for a minute, and giving it juice again does its magic and the system boots directly to her user account. It's definitely slow as molasses, but I'm in Windows with all her settings and software so I decide to attempt to clone the drive using my usual - a new Samsung 860 EVO and the Samsung Data Migration software for the clone.

The clone fails twice, saying there are errors on the drive (yay, good phone diagnosis!). It recommends I run chkdsk, so I figure, no harm no foul, and set it to run at startup. I restart the system, and this time I get the problem the client called about. However, this sound at boot is not like anything I have ever heard before. It sounds mechanical, for sure, but it's not a typical Dell beep code, or that awful click of a failed drive. It's more a loud BOOP BOOP BOOP with an uptick at the end. Kind of BOOup BOOup BOOup - every 5 seconds or so.

Weird noise, but OK fine, I'll just replace the hard drive, do a clean install, FABS it over as I originally intended. So i remove the old drive, install my Samsung SSD, plug in a Window 10 flash drive, turn on the system - and I get the same damned BOOup BOOup BOOup noise with my new drive. Crap.

I do the magical power drain dance again and the system boots fine. I run the built in Dell diagnostics, and the system passes every test. What the hell is going on here? Can I do the clean install/FABS routine, or is the system a ticking time bomb that's going to not boot a few days after I return it to the owner and cash her check? Seriously I'm happy to tell her all that has gone on and ask her what she wants me to do, but I have no idea what's causing that BOOup noise and want to give her some idea of her next best step forward.

 

[sapphirescales]

The sound is either:

1. A POST code - remove the RAM and boot the system and see if the beeps sound similar. It will probably be a different set of beeps, but it will help you determine if you're hearing the internal speaker or not. Maybe the speaker is just really tinny sounding? Maybe it's faulty in some other way that makes it sound different from a "normal" internal speaker.

2. The power adapter. Those suckers can get quite loud when they start to fail. Sometimes they beep, sometimes they let out a rather constant whine.

3. The hard drive - unlikely since you already said that you installed the SSD and it still whined. Just double check.

4. (unlikely) the board itself - I've only heard this once in my life, but there was an old board back in the Pentium II days that would let out a horrible screeching sound when you booted it sometimes. No internal speakers built into the motherboards back then. It was coming from one of the chips on the board. Sucker lasted 3 years like that.

Check out this website for beep codes for Dell laptops:

https://www.dell.com/support/articl...ding-beep-codes-on-a-dell-notebook-pc?lang=en

 

[Computer Bloke]

It recommends I run chkdsk, so I figure, no harm no foul

I think I'm speaking for everyone here when I say...

AAARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHH!

(Which is Klingon for "please don't do that".) CHKDSKing a failing drive just makes it worse. Big harm.

I do the magical power drain dance again and the system boots fine.

What do you expect the magical power drain dance to do? Where does the power drain to, and why does that make a difference? Not judging or criticizing - just curious!

Anyway, have you checked the CMOS battery? Actually, owing to the age of the computer checking it is probably pointless - if you can get to it, just replace it, reset the BIOS and try it again.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Holding the power button in will drain caps to ground. If a faulty but charged cap is holding a transistor switch open(or closed depending on the gate) it can do things like preventing a full power-up.

 

[nlinecomputers]

I think I'm speaking for everyone here when I say...

AAARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHH!

(Which is Klingon for "please don't do that".) CHKDSKing a failing drive just makes it worse. Big harm.

Yep, every data recovery tech on the site just faced palmed when they read no harm, no foul.

 

[carmen617]

Yep, every data recovery tech on the site just faced palmed when they read no harm, no foul.

No harm when the client doesn't care if the data is recovered or not. However, regardless of harm or no harm, that doesn't explain the weird sound.

The sound is either:

1. A POST code - remove the RAM and boot the system and see if the beeps sound similar. It will probably be a different set of beeps, but it will help you determine if you're hearing the internal speaker or not. Maybe the speaker is just really tinny sounding? Maybe it's faulty in some other way that makes it sound different from a "normal" internal speaker.

2. The power adapter. Those suckers can get quite loud when they start to fail. Sometimes they beep, sometimes they let out a rather constant whine.

3. The hard drive - unlikely since you already said that you installed the SSD and it still whined. Just double check.

4. (unlikely) the board itself - I've only heard this once in my life, but there was an old board back in the Pentium II days that would let out a horrible screeching sound when you booted it sometimes. No internal speakers built into the motherboards back then. It was coming from one of the chips on the board. Sucker lasted 3 years like that.

Check out this website for beep codes for Dell laptops:

https://www.dell.com/support/articl...ding-beep-codes-on-a-dell-notebook-pc?lang=en

1. Definitely not a beep code - I've heard plenty of those, and this is is not what it is. It's a much stranger, mechanical sound, like something is trying to start up and getting stuck.

2. Swapped out the power adapter when I first got the system but back to using the original one. That's a possibility but unsure what to do to prove or test it.

3. Yup, and SSD's don't make mechanical failure sounds

4. How would I know if it's the board itself? In your example, did the system actually boot even though making that sound? this system doesn't boot until I do the power reset, at least as far as I can tell by the original state of the system and the fact the power reset worked when I heard the sound myself.

 

[carmen617]

[What do you expect the magical power drain dance to do? Where does the power drain to, and why does that make a difference? Not judging or criticizing - just curious!

Anyway, have you checked the CMOS battery? Actually, owing to the age of the computer checking it is probably pointless - if you can get to it, just replace it, reset the BIOS and try it again.[/QUOTE]

Power drain is the easiest fix for many non-booting computers. I'm not an electrical engineer, don't have a real technical explanation, my simple explanation is that it drains residual static that prevents the system from powering up.

https://accatech.com/flea-power-drain/

Why would this suggest a failing CMOS battery? Would that cause something like a fan to continuously attempt to start and then fail, which I suppose could make a sound like this?

 

[Larry Sabo]

I would try a known-good AC adapter with the battery removed. If no change, disconnect the fan and retry. Also try with one SODIMM at a time in alternate slots. If no change, try with an SSD with Windows already installed on it. If no change, I would say it's a MB problem and trash time.

 

[carmen617]

I would try a known-good AC adapter with the battery removed. If no change, disconnect the fan and retry. Also try with one SODIMM at a time in alternate slots. If no change, try with an SSD with Windows already installed on it. If no change, I would say it's a MB problem and trash time.

The problem is, the system seems to be working fine right now. The client described the problem to me and I didn't see it at all for the first 24 hours I had the system. It just manifested itself one time, when I went to restart the system for a chkdsk. As soon as that happened, i turned the system off, removed the drive, put in my SSD, and rebooted - same BOOP sound. Then I did the power drain, and the system rebooted fine, passed all diagnostics, and seems to be working well. I've installed Windows on it, updated the BIOS, am working on updates, will FABS things over. But what I'm afraid of is that I will not see the problem again, do my typical setup work here, hand the system back to the client with no problems I can find, and have it fail with that BOOP again at some random point in the near future.

 

[Mick]

It's at this point that I normally start changing the emphasis with the client and saying that this is no longer a technical problem, it's an economic one. If I spend enough time - and she therefore spends enough money - then we can probably establish the problem and may even fix it...depending. But she will have spent a small fortune and be getting back a - what? - nine year-old computer which has already gone horribly wrong once. That money is better spent on a new machine with it's one-year warranty. Usually works, especially when you tell her you can recover all her data and the new machine will look just like the old, familiar one. Which, of course, it will if you use FABs.

 

[carmen617]

It's at this point that I normally start changing the emphasis with the client and saying that this is no longer a technical problem, it's an economic one. If I spend enough time - and she therefore spends enough money - then we can probably establish the problem and may even fix it...depending. But she will have spent a small fortune and be getting back a - what? - nine year-old computer which has already gone horribly wrong once. That money is better spent on a new machine with it's one-year warranty. Usually works, especially when you tell her you can recover all her data and the new machine will look just like the old, familiar one. Which, of course, it will if you use FABs.

I charge a flat rate of $250.00 for swapping out a hard drive with a 250GB SSD, whether I can clone it (faster) or clean install and FABS. I also don't sell computers, and she's not that concerned about the setup or her data - she mostly uses an iPad, and really just wanted this up and running again because it's easier for Zoom meetings. If I send her out to get a new computer, I can't charge her what I've quoted to fix her system, just some minimal diagnostic fee. I've already put a new drive in, and spent about 80% of the time I spend on one of these normally. The risk is all mine right now - do I take out my new drive and save it for another customer, tell her I can't do anything about her system because it's old and the problem is random and impossible to diagnose? Or do I continue with the job I am 80% done with, collect my money, and take the risk that the thing will fail again after I've cashed her check.

I'm actually going to call her, explain the situation, and give her the option of going forward or trashing the system. Was just hoping someone had seen this problem before and might have an explanation or resolution.

 

[Mick]

Fair enough. In the circumstances, I think you're doing the right thing in offering her the choice, but I should make it crystal clear that, if she goes with the repair option, you genuinely cannot guarantee this machine's future life-span. Difficult to run the risk of losing your time/money but better that then her bad-mouthing you to all her friends - and who knows who she might know? - as a rip-off merchant.

 

[Larry Sabo]

I'm actually going to call her, explain the situation, and give her the option of going forward or trashing the system.

I think that's best, provided you get her to acknowledge on the work order that there is no warranty because of the intermittent nature of the problem. Even if she goes forward and pays, when it fails, she will blame you and feel that was a waste of money and time. Lose-lose proposition, either way.

 

[carmen617]

Fair enough. In the circumstances, I think you're doing the right thing in offering her the choice, but I should make it crystal clear that, if she goes with the repair option, you genuinely cannot guarantee this machine's future life-span. Difficult to run the risk of losing your time/money but better that then her bad-mouthing you to all her friends - and who knows who she might know? - as a rip-off merchant.

Absolutely - have spoken to her about it (and she's a realtor, not someone I want to piss off, but truthfully I have a great reputation and I would handle this the say way with anybody). The decision is to go ahead with the repair, but I'm going to hold on to the system for a few extra days, turn it off and on a lot, run background stuff, etc, and see if the problem happens again after the BIOS update and the new drive. If no sign of the issue she will pay me my flat rate. If it fails again, I'll take out my drive and she'll just pay me for an hour of labor. And she knows that even after all that there are no guarantees.

 

[carmen617]

I think that's best, provided you get her to acknowledge on the work order that there is no warranty because of the intermittent nature of the problem. Even if she goes forward and pays, when it fails, she will blame you and feel that was a waste of money and time. Lose-lose proposition, either way.

I know, situations like these are the worst. It's always best to be just honest and straightforward about it, but I hate it when I can't stand behind my work.

 

[Computer Bloke]

Why would this suggest a failing CMOS battery?

Based on too much experience, intermittent and/or unexplained failure to start on a five-year-old-plus laptop with no HDD/SSD is almost always either bad RAM, a dirty RAM socket or a failed CMOS battery.

I'm not sure I've ever encountered residual static in a non-laundry situation.

 

[carmen617]

Based on too much experience, intermittent and/or unexplained failure to start on a five-year-old-plus laptop with no HDD/SSD is almost always either bad RAM, a dirty RAM socket or a failed CMOS battery.

I'm not sure I've ever encountered residual static in a non-laundry situation.

Funny, because in my experience RAM failures usually generate some sort of code or show up in diagnostics, and systems with failed CMOS batteries boot to the BIOS to reenter the date and time, but I see at least 2-3 systems a month that respond to a power drain. It can be a real pain in the neck when the battery is not removable, but it's kind of surprising how often a dead system will spring to life after 30 seconds of holding the power button down with no power source attached. You might want to give it a try next time you have a dead system on your bench.

 

[Computer Bloke]

You might want to give it a try next time you have a dead system on your bench.

I'll certainly give it a try, but without understanding why this technique works or what it does (previous explanations notwithstanding) I'd worry that I'd end up in the same situation you're in: a computer that "magically" started working again but which you no longer trust and may not be able to charge your client for fixing as it might not have been fixed.

 

[carmen617]

I'll certainly give it a try, but without understanding why this technique works or what it does (previous explanations notwithstanding) I'd worry that I'd end up in the same situation you're in: a computer that "magically" started working again but which you no longer trust and may not be able to charge your client for fixing as it might not have been fixed.

There are plenty of things we all know how to do that solve problems, without needing to understand the actual mechanics of the fix. I probably should not have glibly described the power drain as a "magical" fix - it's just my experience that it reliably provides at least a temporary solution to many non-booting computers. Like many other fixes we learn over the years, sometimes the problem is a one-off and something like a power drain will solve it forever, and sometimes the requirement to do a power drain is a symptom of a deeper issue which may or may not reveal itself or be easy to diagnose. However, I'm really surprised you have never come across the technique before, as it's listed as a troubleshooting step at every computer manufacturer's website.

https://www.techsupportall.com/how-to-power-drain-the-laptop-desktop-clear-static-charge/
https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/troubleshoot/lpt000352
https://support.hp.com/us-en/docume...the battery and power,to turn on the computer.
https://www.dell.com/support/articl...does-not-turn-on-or-boot-into-windows?lang=en
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201295

 

[Markverhyden]

I've had this work a few times. I also try to make sure the machine is grounded to earth. Grounding to the case, which what happens when you push the plug when the case is not grounded, doesn't always work as well. For that I'll take a standard power cord and cut off the two spades on the male end. That way you'll use the building earth.