Is this ok? What do you think?

[hightechrex]

Is it ok to burn and include a windows disc free of charge.. without a product key? As long as the client has a valid COA that matches they've technically already paid, right? The only thing really binding the customer to the product is the key and once again I DO NOT charge. Is this something that can get me in trouble?

 

[dgiles79]

I don't think you can duplicate and distribute copies of Windows, even without the product key. I don't have documentation to back that up, so I could be wrong.

 

[brandonkick]

It says on the front of the disks that you are not supposed to make illegal copies.

I'm pretty sure that making a copy for someone who owns a license is not illegal but I could be wrong about that.

I wouldn't give out windows disks, because I'm not 100% sure it is legal. On top of that, I don't want people attempting repairs on their own machines especially if they don't know what they are doing. They might wind up blaming it on "that cruddy OS disk you gave them".

 

[NYJimbo]

Is this something that can get me in trouble?

At the very least it's the kind of thing that can bring unwanted attention to you.

 

[callthatgirl]

I agree with Jimbo, if they get it...guess who else will know? 10 of their friends and the next thing you know...you're a chop shop

 

[hightechrex]

At the very least it's the kind of thing that can bring unwanted attention to you.

I was under the impression that installing a copy was legal if the party already owned the license. This antipiracy stuff is weird, should i really charge people 90 to 300 bucks for something they already own? Or is ot only wrong when i give them a disc?

 

[4ycr]

The answer is no it's not alright

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/tec...osoft-for-selling-counterfeit-recovery-discs/

 

[tf76]

 

[phaZed]

I definitely would NOT distribute copied Windows CD's. On top of the legal aspects of it as the others have mentioned... it doesn't help you. Now that the customer has an install CD you provided for free they can re-install without your help, correct? How is that a winning situation? If a customer wants a replacement CD they, or you, can contact the manufacturer for an OEM CD for the ~$25 - That is legal, and the correct way to replace a lost or never-supplied CD.

 

['putertutor]

The answer is no it's not alright

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/tec...osoft-for-selling-counterfeit-recovery-discs/

He's not talking about selling the disc or charging for the service, so I don't see how that article applies.

MS does allow you to make a backup copy of the install disc, so long as you comply with their terms, which all seem to center on staying within the installation rights. So if I, as an end user, want to make a copy just to have as a backup, I can. Does that mean I can have that done for me, at my request, by a third party?? I don't see why not.

Still, as callthatgirl noted, sometimes it's not just about what's right. It would be very easy to see how you could lose reputation in your community doing this, even though it seems like a good thing. And it would also be easy to see how MS could say that because the software touched an unlicensed computer you have violated terms, or that the other service you charged for covered the cost of the duplication and thereby is a sale of their OS.

I wouldn't do it.

EDIT:
Just re-read and it sounds like you want to give a disc to a customer that doesn't have one? I that case: NO, NICHT, NEIN, NYET!! Regardless of the COA, my understanding is that you are not allowed to do this in this world or the next.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Is it ok to burn and include a windows disc free of charge.. without a product key? As long as the client has a valid COA that matches they've technically already paid, right? The only thing really binding the customer to the product is the key and once again I DO NOT charge. Is this something that can get me in trouble?

The legality of this is iffy. It is flat out illegal to make a copy of disk. Unless you are making a BACKUP copy for personal use. So providing a copy to a client is not allowed. Helping a client make a backup copy IS allowed. But they have to have an original to make the backup copy from to begin with.

Honestly though. I've been in this gig for almost 20 years. And I've NEVER heard of anyone getting sued by Microsoft for providing a customer with a disk THAT THEY LEGALLY OWN for their copy of Windows. Technically it is illegal but Microsoft has bigger fish to fry then to go after independent companies trying to get their EXISTING customers back online. They don't have the manpower to sue you nor would they want the bad press caused by hounding otherwise honest end users and techs on a mere technicality that didn't lose Microsoft any money. You can't steal something you've already paid for. After all you are licensing the USE of the software. It is not like buying a copy of a book. You are not allowed to copy books, even as backups. Software you can.

Now if you are truly pirating. Providing copies of Windows that haven't been paid for. Then you are in trouble. And they WILL come after you.

 

[FoolishTech]

It is flat out illegal to make a copy of disk. Unless you are making a BACKUP copy for personal use. So providing a copy to a client is not allowed. Helping a client make a backup copy IS allowed. But they have to have an original to make the backup copy from to begin with.

^ this. Unless anything has changed in the last few years... It's perfectly ok to do so for a customer, because the customer has the right to make a backup disk of their own software - you doing so for them is no different than helping them do it, or them doing it themselves. At least, not in my eyes.

Also they don't always need a copy of the original disk for you to 'backup' provided there is a restore partition and a way to create a disk from that provided by the mfgr., and there usually is. Now in this situation, it is illegal to burn a client a standard Windows disk -- because the only one they legally can backup is the one provided by the mfgr. (or if no disk, then the option to create one from the recovery partition data.)

That's the only catch. To be legit you (acting on behalf of the customer) MUST use the original media or restore medium that came with the PC, not the media that came with another PC -- even if it is identical.

Oh, and it's also perfectly ok to charge money for this service too. This is because you aren't selling the WINDOWS DISK, that would be illegal, instead you are actually selling a SERVICE to help the customer create their rightful legal backup copy.

Case 1 - standard windows disk. I'll make 'backup' copies for anyone (with an original not just a COA, ahem, yeah that's the ticket...) but anyway I charge a few bucks for the labor.

Case 2 - restore partition. This is an excellent upsale, and if you don't do it already you are missing out. client brings in their PC with a restore partition, you educate them quickly on why they need a recovery disk should the HDD fail, (you know damn well they didn't make one already) so you do it for them, again charging a few bucks for the labor and to compensate for the disks needed, for which there are usually something like 2 or 3. The invoice will state that it is a 100% labor charge, and won't mention the disks though.

I haven't worked at one computer shop that didn't do this for people. Usually it's a standard $5 for a straight Windows disk copy, and the invoice will state that it is labor only (I don't actually list the disks - hate to pay state sales tax on a few cents so I consider them 'free' of charge.) Restore/Recovery Partition made disks I'll charge $15 because they usually use more disks and that takes more time. Never heard of anyone getting shut down for this, just real piracy.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Now in this situation, it is illegal to burn a client a standard Windows disk -- because the only one they legally can backup is the one provided by the mfgr. (or if no disk, then the option to create one from the recovery partition data.)

And yet Microsoft provides a provision to USE such a disk anyway.

Up until Windows 8 every OEM system from Dell, HP, Lenovo, whatever has a COA sticker with Product Install key on it that they don't need.

OEMs are required by contract to do one of two things. Either provide a bios locked disk that only installs on that brand of machine* or provide an image disk that is an exact factory image of the system when it left the factory. To save costs they are allowed to provide a method for the end user to create the disks.

* The bios locked disks have two flavors I've seen some that would refuse to install if not on the OEM. If you took the dell disk and tried to use it on a HP it would refuse to install. (Rare) or the More common version that would either install without a Product Key prompt if on matching hardware or would prompt you for a Key if anything else.

Yet we both know that on all of these systems I can take a standard Whitebox DSP OEM disk and install Windows using the key on the side of the system. If end users are not supposed to have anything but the factory image or bios locked disks then WHY does Microsoft provide a key? It's not needed. The reason because end users ARE allowed to install the standard copy of Windows without any bloatware or software from the OEM on the system. And they can't do that without a disk. And just where are they supposed to get this disk without a copy? If they buy a new copy of Windows it will have it's own CD key. So IMO the argument that providing even the generic disk is IMO bogus.

But it is really about who has the biggest lawyers. Comet in the UK is a chain like Best Buy. That's worth the cost to Microsoft to pay the lawyers to sue them, even if IMO the issue is perfectly legal. Which IMO it is. Us small fry companies are not likely to be sued for doing this so long as you are not making a big production about it. I'm not worried that Microsoft is going to kick in my door with warrants. Each business much make that risk assessment on their own.

Oh and even Windows 8 can be installed this way too. You don't need the bloatware copy of Windows provided by the OEM. Any Win 8 disk will install on any Windows 8 shipped system. SO if you don't like the bloatware you could nuke the disk and use a standard Win 8 install disk and it would work just fine and be perfectly legal.

 

[DocGreen]

Legal or not, I wouldn't do it. You're eliminating the potential for repeat business. Say the customer brought you a computer that they screwed up so bad it needed a factory restore. If you provide them with a means to do this themselves, they won't come back to you the next time they kill their computer. And by not providing the disc(s) you wouldn't be withholding any functionality because that functionality was already withheld by the manufacturer.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Legal or not, I wouldn't do it. You're eliminating the potential for repeat business. Say the customer brought you a computer that they screwed up so bad it needed a factory restore. If you provide them with a means to do this themselves, they won't come back to you the next time they kill their computer. And by not providing the disc(s) you wouldn't be withholding any functionality because that functionality was already withheld by the manufacturer.

Except most end users are not able to even do that effectively and half of the clients I burn disks for STILL manage to misplace them. And if they do restore the system it will be bogged down with bloat ware and an expired antivirus. And that also will get you back in the door.

 

[xpert71]

hi

if the client have a windows partition recovery on the hdd u could save the windows on dvd.create the recovery discs.is normal.

 

[FoolishTech]

If end users are not supposed to have anything but the factory image or bios locked disks then WHY does Microsoft provide a key? It's not needed. The reason because end users ARE allowed to install the standard copy of Windows without any bloatware or software from the OEM on the system.

Actually to my knowledge, because again this may have changed over the years, but no they are not allowed to use any old OEM disk to install Windows, if the machine didn't come with that OEM disk.

Microsoft provides the key for re-installations that do not have one embedded. I've seen a few system restore partitions for example that will still ask you for a key, and not every OEM embeds one like Dell and their bios locked disks. In fact, who else does? When most other OEMs that provided actual disks (back in the day) sure many were restore disks but many provided were vanilla OEM disks, with no embedded key. So how are you supposed to reinstall your paid for copy of Windows without a key? THAT is why MS provides a key... or did.

These days I don't know why they still bother, except that the key being on the case certifies that the machine is 'Genuinely' licensed for that version of Windows. For example, if every Dell owner in the world didn't have a key on the case, how would you know if the copy of Windows that came with it was pirated or not? What if it originally came with XP and had a pirate 7 copy on it. Totally possible with Dell disks especially, and no key req.

Also, everyone talks about violating M$ terms, but many of you forget that the OEM itself (HP, Dell, etc.) also has a license agreement - and never having read one I wouldn't be surprised if some or all of them have something in there about using their provided product key for a vanilla OEM install. That's why big OEMs pretty much give away Windows with new PCs instead of actually tacking on the extra whatever it costs, because they are paid by 3rd parties to put on bloatware to compensate for the cost of the OS, which they already get far cheaper than us anyway I'm sure.

Granted it has been over a decade since I actually worked at a large OEM, so maybe things have changed, but I doubt it is for the better.

 

[hightechrex]

Nice, so many different opinions on this one. I think I'll just play it safe and just not do it, although I don't see the problem. I don't see how this eliminates repeat business, I have people that can't find files on their desktop.. even if it's labelled with there name.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Actually to my knowledge, because again this may have changed over the years, but no they are not allowed to use any old OEM disk to install Windows, if the machine didn't come with that OEM disk.

Microsoft provides the key for re-installations that do not have one embedded. I've seen a few system restore partitions for example that will still ask you for a key, and not every OEM embeds one like Dell and their bios locked disks. In fact, who else does? When most other OEMs that provided actual disks (back in the day) sure many were restore disks but many provided were vanilla OEM disks, with no embedded key. So how are you supposed to reinstall your paid for copy of Windows without a key? THAT is why MS provides a key... or did.

These days I don't know why they still bother, except that the key being on the case certifies that the machine is 'Genuinely' licensed for that version of Windows. For example, if every Dell owner in the world didn't have a key on the case, how would you know if the copy of Windows that came with it was pirated or not? What if it originally came with XP and had a pirate 7 copy on it. Totally possible with Dell disks especially, and no key req.

Also, everyone talks about violating M$ terms, but many of you forget that the OEM itself (HP, Dell, etc.) also has a license agreement - and never having read one I wouldn't be surprised if some or all of them have something in there about using their provided product key for a vanilla OEM install. That's why big OEMs pretty much give away Windows with new PCs instead of actually tacking on the extra whatever it costs, because they are paid by 3rd parties to put on bloatware to compensate for the cost of the OS, which they already get far cheaper than us anyway I'm sure.

Granted it has been over a decade since I actually worked at a large OEM, so maybe things have changed, but I doubt it is for the better.

All the major OEM used bios locked disks. Never seen one that didn't except Whitebox cloners. Dell, Hp, Lenovo, Sony, all have at least for internal use SLP (System Locked Pre-installation) keys. Dell, Hp(business class), and Equus/Noblis all have Bios locked SLP disks that ship with the system. The others use image disks but to create the image they use SLP Bios locked disks in there R&D labs to make that master image.

 

[compnet]

If someone can't get their hands on a windows disk, most likely they will end up deleting their data if you give them one.. best case you are cutting yourself out of the loop.

Legal or not I wouldn't do it.