ignorant consumers

[bertie40]

I've had this happen to me SO many times.
I examine a machine and suggest that their current antivirus .... Isn't all that good, and I suggest a replacement.

They consider this a personal insult concerning their intelligence, and they reply (in a terse voice), "Well, I've used it for years and NEVER had a virus !!!!!"


Some people you can propose a counter argument, as in

"well, obviously the nasties sneaked past then. "

But sometimes, you can tell you have already lost the battle, and it ain't worth fighting.

 

[drjones]

this is a tough one. Especially because without customers there is no money. Some customers are great, some are ok and some really grind my gears. You are not alone. We as technician are not alone. It is really any customer service business. I raised my rates a year ago and just did it again last month. This has really weeded out those people. The hardest clients are always the cheapest. I think that it just comes down to they are spending what little money they have and just want to get the biggest bang for there buck. It just comes off as jerky because no one is going to say that sounds great i would love to do it but i dont have the money so find something cheaper because i am broke.

I disagree completely. Some people (wealthy people included) are just ignorant, self-entitled jerks and treat other people like dirt.

You can ask for - and receive - a lot of value for your money if you are a great customer, polite, etc.

I do bend over backwards for my best, most polite / best to work with clients, happily.

 

[drjones]

I've had this happen to me SO many times.
I examine a machine and suggest that their current antivirus .... Isn't all that good, and I suggest a replacement.

They consider this a personal insult concerning their intelligence, and they reply (in a terse voice), "Well, I've used it for years and NEVER had a virus !!!!!"


Some people you can propose a counter argument, as in

"well, obviously the nasties sneaked past then. "

But sometimes, you can tell you have already lost the battle, and it ain't worth fighting.

I also encounter this, and again in fact encountered it with the client that I believe I scared off; they use POP email and of course it's very problematic and obviously nothing syncs between devices, the owner can't send emails out from home, etc. All sorts of issues.

I tell him he needs to move to a hosted exchange, which is a business-class email system, I explain all the benefits, 25GB storage per box, etc. etc. etc....$95 per email box, per year.

He starts going on about his wife had some guy who hosted their email, did spam filtering, the works and it was great and awesome and that I "need to be more creative." (Read = find something way cheaper)

I didn't ask him why he left that super-awesome, super-cheap web/email/spam service if it was working out so perfectly.

I also get a lot of the "but I just got this computer and paid a ton of money for it!!" in response when I tell someone their system is horribly outdated and not worth putting a lot of their money & my time into.

The reality is the system is verifiably 8 years old and was likely a $300 walmart special.

The GOOD clients know and understand that computers are depreciating assets with a very finite lifespan and can't wait to get you going on the project to replace them every 3-5 years as they should so that their business keeps humming along.

But no....as the other troll said above, we're all a bunch of jerks who shouldn't be in this business with attitudes like that.

How *dare* we try to sell quality hardware, software, and services to polite, appreciative clients! The NERVE!

 

[aweston]

Secondly: @aweston. Is your purpose here at technibble just to insult and antagonize? How long til you create yet another account for the singular purpose of poking at people? I have yet to see a single post of yours (from either account) that adds any value to this forum. I would call you a troll, but that's not entirely accurate. Trolls are funny; you're just . . . a waste.

Truth is a terrible thing when it hits ego in the face I suppose.

How many threads have I read about people whining about how to be successful, how to grow their business, bragging about their TV advertising, what's the next gimmick to grow my business.. and then post crap like this?

The whole point of my post was to point out that it doesn't matter what you do, what gimmick you try, if your attitude and your heart isn't in the right place you're not going to succeed.. Yet it doesn't stop you from offering advice, posting ebooks, starting little webinars and more whining posts.

If it rocks your boat, it's because it strikes a nerve. It strikes a nerve because it's true "angry" geek.

Those customers you folks so gleefully whine about in your moments of self-righteousness and piety are your bread and butter, your referal partners and your advertising network.. They throw you a bone and you sit there judging the quality and size of it.

Change your context and watch your business thrive. Or don't, and be reduced from several locations and numerous staff to a one man/woman show pretending to be an expert in marketing or keep working out of your basement.

You need to ask yourselves if you really want to succeed. The only way you will is by changing your context and realize that you're job is to help the people that are trusting you, not judge them and mock them.

I would have thought this was business 101? Or do you find it more helpful for someone to post "yes, you're right muffin. That customer is terrible. You're so much better than them?" The measure of a man/woman and a business is never how you treat the great customers. It's how you treat the more challenging ones. Maybe the support should be more around "how can I help you work through this so that you can give your 100% to EVERY customer"? That to me seems more productive.

 

[aweston]

I'd like to give an example from my own experience to help.

A while back I had a client that asserted that they weren't given back one of the items they dropped off. Ok, that's not good, I have lots of systems in place to prevent that. I investigated to find out where our processes failed. It turns out that they hadn't failed, the client did get their property back.

Well, ok. I was given a copy of the invoice for the "missing" item they had purchased with the expectation that it be resolved. How did I resolve it? I cut them a cheque.

The question we need to ask ourselves is would we rather be right, or would we rather be successful? We can't be both.

 

[codegreen]

Or do you find it more helpful for someone to post "yes, you're right muffin. That customer is terrible. You're so much better than them?" The measure of a man/woman and a business is never how you treat the great customers. It's how you treat the more challenging ones. Maybe the support should be more around "how can I help you work through this so that you can give your 100% to EVERY customer"? That to me seems more productive.

If you think that everyone in this thread is posting "yes, muffin" comments, you haven't been reading very carefully. There are multiple posts giving constructive suggestions on how build trust with problematic customers. Your original post wasn't one of them.

When you came back with a new account, I was willing to pretend your previous blow-up/stompy exit never happened. But, it looks like you're just going to do the same dance again. First, you post little more than insults. Then, when you get called on it, you offer some advice that others have already posted more succinctly, as if it was wisdom from on high, liberally sprinkled with more insults. Then, you act as if the truth of your words is too much for people, and that's why they're reacting negatively to you.

Basically, you come across as a know-it-all and a bit of a jerk. You might want to work on that.

 

[angry_geek]

Just to get this straight: helping someone steal from you = good business? I'm glad I'm not that desperate.

 

[Rosco]

Just to get this straight: helping someone steal from you = good business? I'm glad I'm not that desperate.

hahaha thats a good one.

 

[aweston]

Just to get this straight: helping someone steal from you = good business? I'm glad I'm not that desperate.

I can bring more around that if you like. Have you ever heard of choosing your "battles" and fighting only honourable "battles"? Fighting every single "battle" that comes your way is a futile waste of energy and takes time away from helping others. What happens if they decide to stick to their convictions and it explodes into a huge battle? The time, money and reputation lost can spiral out of control in a hurry.

It's something you do when you're not successful. If you can't afford to spend $120 to maintain your reputation and spread good will, your challenges are far greater than someone "stealing from you" as you put it.

Let's not forget about a powerful force named "karma". You want to ensure that you build up good karma around you and your business. What is your cost of acquisition? And what is the cost to your business if that consumer, just being called out as a "liar", spreads bad will.

What is your reputation worth to you?

The issue here isn't $120. $120 is nothing. I won't get out of bed for $120 anymore. What is everything is my reputation and ensuring that I deliver excellence and my personal 100% to every single client I have the pleasure of serviing because I value each and every one.

Choose which "battles" you're going to fight, make sure they're honourable "battles", ensure that they make sound business sense and don't fight them unless you're satisfied that you will win (or stand a way better than average chance of doing so).

 

[angry_geek]

I can bring more around that if you like. Have you ever heard of choosing your "battles" and fighting only honourable "battles"? Fighting every single "battle" that comes your way is a futile waste of energy and takes time away from helping others. What happens if they decide to stick to their convictions and it explodes into a huge battle? The time, money and reputation lost can spiral out of control in a hurry.

It's something you do when you're not successful. If you can't afford to spend $120 to maintain your reputation and spread good will, your challenges are far greater than someone "stealing from you" as you put it.

Let's not forget about a powerful force named "karma". You want to ensure that you build up good karma around you and your business. What is your cost of acquisition? And what is the cost to your business if that consumer, just being called out as a "liar", spreads bad will.

What is your reputation worth to you?

The issue here isn't $120. $120 is nothing. I won't get out of bed for $120 anymore. What is everything is my reputation and ensuring that I deliver excellence and my personal 100% to every single client I have the pleasure of serviing because I value each and every one.

Choose which "battles" you're going to fight, make sure they're honourable "battles", ensure that they make sound business sense and don't fight them unless you're satisfied that you will win (or stand a way better than average chance of doing so).

I would pick apart your responses and tell you where you are horribly flawed in your reasoning and how bad this thinking is for business. However, I can't just GIVE that info away. You know? You need to pay me for that advice.

 

[aweston]

I think you touched on something here.

Whenever you have something bad to say about or to someone, it's never a reflection of them, it's always a reflection of you and where you're at. When someone strikes a nerve with you it's really worthwhile to sit down and ask yourself "Wow, what the hell was that about? Where am I at right now? What do I need to learn about myself?"

When you're at peace with yourself and in a good place, nothing and nobody phases you. One of the things I've learned on my journey is the "World Sucks Chart". I really encourage everyone, especially business owners, to really study that chart and on a deeper level ask themselves where they are at on it. As a side note, to establish where you're at you establish what level you've mastered. Then look at the next level and ask if that consumes 95% of your energies. If it does, that's the level you're at.

Anyways, I was once given this concept by a multi-millionaire. When you're at a level 8, a level 2 problem is no longer a problem. So when a small thing like what someone says really ticks you off, that means that you're functioning on a level BELOW that.

To really truly succeed, then, and to master the "inconvenient" customers, you want to make sure you do the self growth to elevate yourself ABOVE it. To get yourself to functioning at a higher "level 8" so that you don't have to worry about picking a fight over $120 in the example I used earlier. Once you do, those customers are no longer a problem. They're no longer "ignorant" or "inconvenient". They now become your fellow human beings that are reaching out and trusting you to help them when they're not in a good place (stressed out about their families, finances, computers, cars or whatever it is that is challenging them at that moment).

In that light you see them from eyes of empathy and compassion. Your consuming desire becomes one of urgently wanting to help and doing whatever it is that you can do to make their day that much brighter.

You may be very surprised at the results...and you might even find it was well worth $120.

Two words: People Skills. Another word: Communication.

Whether it's a residential appointment, or a business contract call, I always get someone that falls into this category. They ask questions like these out of a combination of ignorance, bad knowledge, superiority, or a desire to test YOUR knowledge.

Depending on how I perceive their attitude, I preface my response with something along the lines of "Well, that MIGHT be the case (or that's probably the case) but in my experience I find that (or like to)..."

In my response I acknowledge their question and if I think I need to I work in a compliment to their desire to figure out the problem on their own I will do that, then I close my response by telling them that my many years of experience I blah blah blah this is why I'm doing X procedure.

99.999999% of the time my response positions me as the expert working WITH the customer to fix the issue (because even computer illiterate customers feel good when they believe they've been a help to fix an issue). The customer, even if they continue questioning, always feels like the experience is a good one.

If you're running away from these experiences/scenarios I would kindly suggest you reconsider your reaction to these customers.

 

[drjones]

So basically, aweston is saying that we:

- Need to gleefully accept outright abuse from bad customers, ask for more, and meditate on why we are such awful people that we are so deserving of this abuse

- Need to gleefully accept bad customers, defined as clients who question your every move, question your invoices, question your judgement and experience, AND don't have a budget for quality IT services, software and hardware and/or are unwilling to pay for quality IT stuff.

- Need to help our clients cheat us out of our hard-earned money.

Am I right so far?

Aweston, kindly leave these forums, come back when you're a grown up ready to contribute.

 

[aweston]

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I am giving part of a much bigger picture.

One part of that picture that isn't discussed yet is how to decide when it's time to no longer serve the client.

Very quickly, that is established when you're in a good place, when you're doing it for the right reasons and when it's in the best interest of all concerned (including and especially the client).

You can't get to that answer when you're in a rut or in your ego, worried about how much you'll miss $120, calling people names, dictating their actions, getting offended and taking things personally.

So basically, aweston is saying that we:

- Need to gleefully accept outright abuse from bad customers, ask for more, and meditate on why we are such awful people that we are so deserving of this abuse

- Need to gleefully accept bad customers, defined as clients who question your every move, question your invoices, question your judgement and experience, AND don't have a budget for quality IT services, software and hardware and/or are unwilling to pay for quality IT stuff.

- Need to help our clients cheat us out of our hard-earned money.

Am I right so far?

Aweston, kindly leave these forums, come back when you're a grown up ready to contribute.

 

[aweston]

I took it as we need to look at ourselves and our egos to be successful at life and business.

Your assessment is accurate and one of the biggest lessons I myself had to learn.

 

[redmon]

Your assessment is accurate and one of the biggest lessons I myself had to learn.

Sorry I erased my post(you must have quoted me as I was deleting it) . After posting it, I decided I did not want to be part of the argument, so I deleted it. I do stand behind what I said.

Edit added later//
I did not read the whole thread. I just responded to one thing out of context. I regret getting in the middle of this whole thing

 

[Pants]

 

[untoldtech]

I've phased out most of my problematic customers, I had a bunch when I first started, then for the problematic ones that want to argue over invoices (when they were there while I fixed 50 different problems). these are also the same people who complain about your rate and wanted a discount. The same type that have their invoices laying out where they're making $400-600/hour or tens of thousands on retainers. Yes, lawyers are my favorite customers . They argue like I'm screwing them over even though they were there for the entire time I was fixing problems and watching me like a hawk. I get it, there are crappy IT guys out there that will run up the bill, but serious I've been to your business 2 - 3 times in a week and was billing 50/hour and the bill is $300 for the week and I get read the riot act by his assistant that the 'bill is too much'.

I solved this by not being available for future jobs, I think eventually they get the point that I didn't want their business and only took it when I needed the cash. I've found it's a psychological thing, respect yourself and put off the confidence or they'll eat you alive, be confident in what you charge and don't back down. I've listened to these same lawyers complain to other lawyers about non-payers and how he was going to ruin the guys credit who didn't pay him and gleefully talked about it like he was excited to do it, there are some...interesting people out there

 

[Geek007]

I think I'm getting this right (from the further posts contributed by other people), but just want to confirm.

Client walks in, tells you they didn't get something back that THEY gave YOU originally.

I investigated to find out where our processes failed. It turns out that they hadn't failed, the client did get their property back

So basically what you're saying is, YOU were RIGHT, the client was WRONG.

I was given a copy of the invoice for the "missing" item they had purchased with the expectation that it be resolved

This missing item, did they purchase that originally from you? Or from another company (that just happened to be included with the other stuff they gave you)?

I cut them a cheque

So, basically, even though you knew you were right and they were wrong, YOU wrote and gave THEM a cheque for the cost of the 'missing' item?

If I'm right in assuming this, would you do this for everyone that came into your shop with the same situation? I'm guessing you did this as a way of avoiding a possible argument/confrontation, whatever you want to call it? So, you effectively paid them to potentially 'keep quiet' about it and continue spreading good words about your business?
I don't care whether you say you trust the client or not, all I'm now thinking is what happens if word gets around and other people start doing the same things to you? Where would it end? Or would it not? And would you just hope/pray that you got extra business because of doing that, that would cover those 'losses'?

Personally, if what I've said is true, I find this a bizarre way to run a business, to put it mildly. Are you a millionaire or something?

The question we need to ask ourselves is would we rather be right, or would we rather be successful? We can't be both

I'm guessing that what I've put above must be right, going by your last sentence above.
So...... even though you KNEW YOU WERE RIGHT, you're then 'admitting' that your wrong. Having great trouble following your reasoning on that one I'm afraid.

 

[Geek007]

Two words: People Skills. Another word: Communication.

Whether it's a residential appointment, or a business contract call, I always get someone that falls into this category. They ask questions like these out of a combination of ignorance, bad knowledge, superiority, or a desire to test YOUR knowledge.

Depending on how I perceive their attitude, I preface my response with something along the lines of "Well, that MIGHT be the case (or that's probably the case) but in my experience I find that (or like to)..."

In my response I acknowledge their question and if I think I need to I work in a compliment to their desire to figure out the problem on their own I will do that, then I close my response by telling them that my many years of experience I blah blah blah this is why I'm doing X procedure.

99.999999% of the time my response positions me as the expert working WITH the customer to fix the issue (because even computer illiterate customers feel good when they believe they've been a help to fix an issue). The customer, even if they continue questioning, always feels like the experience is a good one.

If you're running away from these experiences/scenarios I would kindly suggest you reconsider your reaction to these customers.

You know, I would say that every situation is different, but for the most part, I think I agree with this.

Key words for me here are, 'how I perceive their attitude' (lets not forget we are all only human, sometimes even us techs can misread situations), 'people skills', and 'communication'. If you do not have these skills, I feel you will struggle.

Only thing is, I'm a bit abacked by this, because Aweston has quoted this, yet I seem to struggle to understand the rest of what he says.

 

[red12049]

I was once given a piece of advice I follow to this day....

If, in your daily routine, you meet an ahole, chances are he/she is an ahole. If you meet two aholes in the same day... Hmmmm. If you meet a third ahole, time to look in the mirror and meet the biggest ahole of that day.

While my threshold for tolerating assholiness is lower than Aweston's, I understand where he is coming from.

Rick