I HATE Windows 10 "Apps"

[sapphirescales]

This includes the settings "app," everything. Win32 programs had problems sometimes, but nothing like these stupid "apps." Like, literally they just open to a blank screen and then crash. WTF are you supposed to do with this? I've tried reinstalling and updating the app itself, updating Windows, screwing around in PowerShell, making a new user account etc. On my Windows 11 test machine, the Settings app just freezes half the time I go to use it and I have to close it and reopen it. I don't remember that EVER happening with Control Panel in the 25+ years I've been using it. These apps are unstable garbage. Microsoft either needs to go back to the drawing board and start over from scratch or just keep Win32 programs. I've been screwing with Windows 10 app problems since Windows 10 released all the way back in 2015. It's just become "normal" for me to have to deal with buggy apps that crash all the time, and I hate it.

I like the look and feel of Microsoft's Mail and Calendar app. I like their Photos app, not really for organizing photos, but for viewing photos it's got a nice interface. I've come to depend on these programs, and it infuriates me when they don't work right. Why am I still dealing with this sh*t 6 years later? Thankfully I've got Splashtop installed on all of my computers, so if I sit down to use one of them and one of the apps doesn't work, I can just fire up Splashtop and remote into another computer, but I shouldn't have to do this. If anything these apps have gotten MORE unstable over the years! I spent 3 hours today looking for an alternative to the Mail and Calendar apps and everything just sucks. EM Client? Sucks. Mailbird? Sucks. Outlook? Has always sucked. But you know what sucks more than all these sucky programs? An app that won't even open, so I guess I'm stuck with "sucks."

Just a rant. If there were good alternatives to these apps I wouldn't complain, in fact I'd rejoice! I don't trust Microsoft at all. They constantly screw with things for seemingly no reason at all. I can't run my business using tools that aren't reliable and tools that I don't trust.

 

[britechguy]

If you don't think you can trust Windows 10 I have absolutely no idea how you thought you could trust earlier versions of Windows.

Ten has been more stable than any of its predecessors without question.

 

[phaZed]

Not to be a d1ck - but this somewhat reads like an end-user! "Microsoft sucks, apps suck, everything crashes, therefor it must be Microsoft's fault!" I get these kinds of complaints all the time, just to find out that 90% of the time is because of a POS computer - either defective or crap-quality, incorrect settings, outdated BIOS, etc.

What hardware are you running? Brands?

I've also found there is some "software" commonality between some things that cause Windows to screw up.

• Things like "Stardock" programs, Windows 10 Menu changers, "Privacy" and MS "patchers" or otherwise things that like to "modify" Windows and the DWM or Start Menu in some low-level way... these tend to always result in an issue sooner than later.
• Obvious offenders like Viruses or malware - and "questionable programs" (Usually from common quasi-good, well known software vendors) from AV to Backup to defraggers to "cleaners".
• AMD video cards and drivers. Absolutely horrible.
• Motherboard manufacturer software. Their software is usually working on a low-level issue, be it for BIOS programming/updating or RGB lighting... I find a great many of the MB makers software to be half-baked. Personally, MSI has crap software most of the time, Gigabyte isn't much better, Asus, etc. Don't install these things if you can help it. Just go get the drivers and as little MB software as possible.
• DRIVERS! Drivers. Drivers. Don't rely on Windows to get the right ones. I always SDIO my machines. Caveats with SDIO certainly exist. AMD Chipset Drivers always get from AMD direct. Always get GPU drivers from NVIDIA or AMD direct.

I agree the Microsoft store, modern apps suck. I don't use them unless it's required (S Mode, VR, Mixed Reality, WSL) and have not really found a situation beyond those where "I had to have it", or where it was simply available as a normal win32/64 exe.... I think they suck for totally other reasons. The "Tablet" or touchscreen focused interface used in "Apps" sux. The install and uninstall method sux. Where they are installed sux. Repairing them sux.
I'm on my 2nd Windows 10 PC (Always a custom desktop of high end) and they run like servers... they never get turned off and never reboot (exceptions given for updates/drivers/system edits). I have had zero issues with Win 10, personally. Never got unstable. Never bluescreened, never randomly restarted, etc. Never had to reload Windows, never really had to futz with anything "wrong" with Windows 7 or 10 for something like a decade now.

We have 5 Windows PC's (two are laptops) in our family, none of them have had issues. None of them were "cheap" or of low quality - but not necessarily high-end except for mine and my Wife's.

Mail apps suck, I agree. What I can't understand is how your are stuck on what I consider the absolute worst mail app - the MS "Mail" app! Really, anything is better than that, IMO. It's so "Mickey-Mouse" and offers no real options for anything. It's little cute database format is basically irretrievable or fixable in the event something happens, backing it up, etc. - and it's an APP! In my list of mail programs, "Mail" was always near the end of it.

If I had to have a mail application it would be either Outlook or Thunderbird(Woefully outdated).. but I find I really don't need them anymore at all.. so it's Gmail for now.

Thankfully I've got Splashtop installed on all of my computers, so if I sit down to use one of them and one of the apps doesn't work, I can just fire up Splashtop and remote into another computer, but I shouldn't have to do this.

Sounds to me like you have a corrupt Windows install in some way. All my apps work, and I would bet all these apps work for most people.. and would work if you reinstalled Windows... so you're looking at a "you" "your computer" issue. These failure are not wide-spread, but not unheard of, and again are usually the result of something other than Windows itself.

 

[NviGate Systems]

I'm going to side with saphirescales here, Microsoft ditched a perfectly working UI just to have "eye candy". Some settings are ported, the rest just "disappear" or are a jumbled mess. Also, the new UI are CPU intensive compared to the old ones. They also integrate elements similar to HTML/Web, and have permissions that can break. In fact, the "apps" are one reason why dism became the new imaging program for Windows Deployment, ImageX couldn't handle the structure and permissions for universal apps.

I don't hate the new Settings App per se, but when it stops working you just pray the next update or a reboot will fix it. Windows 10 is nothing but a Hybrid of Windows 95 - 8.1. Sure, lots of improvements, but no cures. All we have is band aids.

So now and then I'll go on a rant on how ADD Microsoft is. They start project after project but never finish or fix anything.

 

[britechguy]

They start project after project but never finish or fix anything.

Stick any computing giant in for Microsoft and this still applies. The industry as a whole has the attention span of a gnat, and there's this insane drive, constantly, for "new and improved" that's definitely new, and very often not improved.

And lets not even get into the unbelievable, and unnecessary, ratcheting up of the desire for instant gratification (and with extremely narrow focus).

 

[britechguy]

It's interesting to hear, and this is the first time I've heard it, that people are having issues with Settings. I've never once had Settings freeze or crash since 2015. And I love it just because the "fuzzy search" that's now used allows you to actually find the very obscure setting you access once every few years much more easily than Control Panel ever did.

I still use Control Panel, quite a bit, but mostly for settings that have not, as yet, been ported into Settings. But even after they are, there will still very likely be many vestiges of the Control Panel dialogs we all know and love, perhaps ever so slightly redesignedl.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

I'm with Bri....Windows 10...most stable ever. Well several months with Win11 is showing the same.
I live and breath in Microsoft Office apps...Outlook runs rock stable, other Office apps, 365 apps, OneDrive, Teams...I'm heavy users in them. Heck our ~200 other business clients are the same. Looking at our RMM now, about 2,100 assets in there (clients computers in our managed plans). Really don't hear these complaints from them either.

'course we select quality business grade computers, that themselves run rock stable. And we don't under horsepower them. From experience, the part time or break/fix rare clients we try to avoid, with cheap hardware..yeah we'll experience complaints there.

 

[britechguy]

From experience, the part time or break/fix rare clients we try to avoid, with cheap hardware..yeah we'll experience complaints there.

The advent of Windows 10, other than getting my embedded base upgraded to it, has resulted in a downturn in the number of directly Windows related service calls I have been receiving, and significantly so.

I've been around since before Windows even existed, and worked with each and every version except 8 (my hands somehow only touched 8.1), and the number of issues since the advent of Windows 10 has dropped dramatically on the whole. The only absolute debacle I can think of was the very early rollout for Version 1809 (if memory serves), the one that was wiping system drives for a couple of days under certain very specific conditions.

I've never for a single second looked back with longing on any version earlier than Windows 10. It was a major improvement (and given the amount of "ground up" redevelopment that took place, that's not shocking. There were way fewer band-aids on existing Windows code than had been characteristic in the past.)

 

[Sky-Knight]

I've had several machines "update" their Windows Store app, and post update the store just doesn't open anymore. Open, then close... no error, no fix that I've found.

Then, a few days later POOF... it works again.

@britechguy The 1809 issue was specific to user profile directories getting deleted, and it only happened if you were using redirected folders AND Ondrive redirection at the same time. Something that honestly... shouldn't have ever been done.

It's never a great idea to have two synchronization engines staring at the same set of files, bad things happen. And that's what 1809 did. And NOW OneDrive simply won't let you redirect your user profile folders if they're already redirected via policy to a share somewhere.

So yes MS deserved a bit of a black eye on that one, but also the admins that thought it was sane to have two different redirections happening of the same... well those people deserved to lose data too.

The part that floored me was the entire point of such redirection is so you can get a backup... so you restore your backup! But all I remember are the whines of people that didn't have backups! WTF... no backup of your SERVERS?!?

That situation was insane on every level.

As for fixing the Windows Store apps... they work just like apps on an iPhone or Android device. If you have a problem you just blow up the settings and reinitialize the app. Start -> Settings -> Apps -> Search for app... click on advanced option link in the app's tile, scroll down and click the repair button. If that doesn't fix it, repeat above and click the reset button. If THAT doesn't work, it's time to contact the app's support because it's a containerized app in a sandbox, WE DO NOT HAVE the means to FIX IT. Just the same as Android and Apple apps... the vendor has to fix it. And that's the POINT! Welcome to 2021.

 

[Blues]

I just want to say on a related note how every time I see these new Windows 11 ads and they are talking about how amazingly better various performance is. It is to me false advertising because 99% of any measurable boost that Windows 11 may be able to claim are imperceptible to the user experience when compared on identical hardware. They do these misleading ads every time I remember when they did it with Windows 10 because if a user actually experienced as much amazement in performance as these actors pretend they have it would not be the OS it would be the upgraded hardware of the new device.

Ok had to get that rant out been seeing the commercial too often of late.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@Blues Yeah the only thing Windows 11 does better than 10 is containers. Which is something that should see more adoption as time goes on, and we all start using winget to install stuff. But at this magic moment? End users simply don't use that functionality, so the claims of improved performance are complete crap.

In the future after we get an AMD64/ARM hybrid CPUs going... sure but now? Not so much.

 

[frase]

I rarely use the Apps or store, for photos the MS one is absolute bollocks. I use the old picture viewer from win7 reg hack. I never have clients who have used the apps either, one only being Camera for privacy settings etc.

I tend to shy away from theme customisers, they just add a load of garbage to a system. The only thing I use to look different is Classic Shell for the start menu.

As for drivers, after a N&P I always disable the os to install new drivers - no sir I am in charge of that off you go.

Outlook is fine, never had an issue with it - and if I did was resolved easily don't see the point of the email app rant. I think you need to go back and cuddle your Apple device.

 

[fincoder]

for photos the MS one is absolute bollocks.

In what way specifically? Considering it's the default photo viewer on every Windows 10 computer, it's likely used by a huge number of people. It's actually quite quick to open when double-clicking a photo, and you then have direct access to crop, rotate and resize functions which is about all that most people do. The only problem I've found with it is photo transfer from a camera or card, it can occasionally get confused about what it's already transferred and misses transferring new pics (not sure if that bug still exists).

As for drivers, after a N&P I always disable the os to install new drivers - no sir I am in charge of that off you go.

Drivers automatically installed by Windows Updates, actually works very well. I let it happen, and install optional ones, after every install. Saves a lot of work, and hasn't caused problems for years. If all the updates and optional driver updates are installed before handing over to the customer, then it's likely I would notice any issue. From then on optional driver updates don't get installed unless there's a problem.

 

[britechguy]

Drivers automatically installed by Windows Updates, actually works very well. I let it happen, and install optional ones, after every install. Saves a lot of work, and hasn't caused problems for years.

Amen, Amen, AMEN!!

It never ceases to shock me that IT pros believe that the issues that existed in 2015 still exist. I haven't had Windows Update choose a bad driver in several years now. And the last thing I want on any machine is out-of-date drivers, which is what invariably happens when auto-updating is off. I also use Intel Driver & Support Assistant, since for whatever reason, Windows Update just is not keeping up with the constant churn that Intel creates for its drivers. And for companies that issue them, e.g., HP, I'll use their "support station" software, too, as it gets their customized stuff that Microsoft may not have.

 

[GTP]

As for drivers, after a N&P I always disable the os to install new drivers - no sir I am in charge of that off you go.

After any new install I just go straight to Windoze Updates and let it "do its thang."
Never had any issues.
Sometimes a card reader requires a visit to the manufacturers website but generally not.
Been that way for years now.

 

[frase]

Each to their own, I do you do we all do voodoo.

 

[britechguy]

Each to their own, I do you do we all do voodoo.

I can't argue that. But having a rationale that holds water does matter.

 

[frase]

As I stated "I" use the older image viewer, others can use what they wish.
In regards to updates, I agree Win10 does an efficient process on this. Though there have been times when a driver update has caused issues, so I tend to disable this. Personal opinion I just like to be in control of systems so I can update when deemed safe.

 

[Sky-Knight]

I let manufacturer tools handle drivers, it's a vastly more trusted process. I haven't had problems with Windows Update delivered drivers in years, but often the drivers available via that mechanism are extremely dated. This causes security problems.

 

[britechguy]

I haven't had problems with Windows Update delivered drivers in years, but often the drivers available via that mechanism are extremely dated. This causes security problems.

Not that I disagree with this, but if someone is not following your wise advice to use manufacturer tools (be they your computer manufacturer or specific component manufacturer) tools you're still better off with Windows Update handling driver updates than nothing handling them.

I don't know exactly how they've tweaked the Windows Update mechanism, but I haven't had it replace anything that my manufacturer tools have put in place for several years now, either. There was a time when it would routinely "substitute its judgment," regardless of the driver version numbers or dates, which were more recent than what it had, but that stopped a while back.

The only issue I've still had is at Feature Updates to my laptop that has Beats Audio. Windows consistently replaces the original driver with a much newer, generic, driver that obliterates all of the controls one has over that system. But once I reinstall the original driver that HP supplied, it does not get overwritten by Windows Update.