[REQUEST] How to protect yourself with large purchase

[E Bell]

[I guess the title should have stated a large quote and/or sale...not necessarily a purchase, but guess it could be both.]

I had a company reach out to me yesterday. They initially contacted us from the "contact us" page our website. They had requested a quote for a 1 PB storage solution utilizing a specific vendor. [My website is listed on this vendors site as a partner in Texas.] Initially I thought it may not be a valid request, but decided to reply as it was a pretty specific request and they mentioned preferring to work through a local partner. Also, this did not "feel" like one of the normal spam or phishing requests for a quote you normally receive...you know what I'm referring too.

After exchanging a few emails and doing some research it turns out the request appears legitimate. So now you are asking what the concern is. The company stated they were deploying the solution in their Texas office; however, their parent company is not based in the United States. From my understanding this is a new facility in Texas that will serve as their U.S. headquarters. My concern is still legitimacy as it could be a well thought out plan on their behalf. Skeptic much...yes. I'm not sure if any of you have spec'd a 1 PB storage solution, but it is quite a lot of equipment and a hefty price tag. They have asked that two quotes be presented - one with setup/installation/configuration and one without.

My thoughts for those of you that are larger than myself how you handle this size of a quote ($60k+), payment, etc.

Thank you for your time and have a great day!

Ethan

 

[dgoglio]

Quote it. Require all payment ahead of time.

 

[mraikes]

Quote it. Require all payment ahead of time.

And don't refund any overpayments or excess.

I mean no offense (because my own website falls also into this category), but the fact that they reached out through your website is enough to make me suspicious. You don't have the kind of site that would typically attract the attention of an international company looking to drop $60,000 to technology-up it's new US headquarters. And Houston has no shortage of big time fancy looking IT providers that based on websites alone would seem to be better candidates for this kind of request.

But once in awhile good things just drop in our laps. Maybe this is an example.

 

[E Bell]

No offense taken regarding the website. My purpose is to be "low key" and only provide a business card web presence. I have a full time job working "for the man". As previously mentioned, they wound up on my site via the vendor's.

However, I do have two municipalities and a few medium size businesses that I provide vCIO and MSP services for. Their projects are generally spread throughout the year and not $60k+ at one time.

With a few vendor contacts and relationships there are some deals that "drop into my lap". This just happens to be the largest with an international home/presence. So, developing those relationships are important.

Thank you both for your input. Working with government agencies, I'm used to POs and terms instead of requesting payment upfront.

 

[Markverhyden]

I know I don't have to say this but the Goo is your friend when researching the company.

Beyond that. If you have a great relationship with your financial institution see if they'll pull a D&B on them. Maybe dangle a short term financing opportunity to get them to do that since it's not free.

Terms. I agree. Payment for hardware in advance of ordering the same. I'd also want part of the labor up front as well.

 

[skdmaster]

My thoughts on this is why out of the clear blue would someone you have no relationship with contact you for something like that? A company looking for storage of that size would normally have a corporate account with a mainstream distributor, CDW, etc. A company with multiple offices would typically have internal IT with resources to buy it. Scammers are getting better nowadays - recently had one that had gone as far as to have a drivers license from stealing someones identity but slipped up with the names and used Facebook to validate the photo. As the saying goes - go with your first instinct. If you move forward do your research first, contact the company to see if this person works there, use the tools out there - LinkedIn, Facebook, etc - to research the person and company.

 

[GTP]

With respect, for such a large workorder I'm surprised that you were't contacted directly by phone or email.
If I was going to spend north of 60K I would want to meet the person/s involved face-to-face for a little tete a tete over coffee or lunch. (Or given the size of the contract - in an office setting with all involved present).

Contacting you via a link on your site sound dubious to me.

 

[fencepost]

How many companies are listed as partners on the vendor's website? Are you the sole Texas provider or something? For that matter, would this be considered a large sale for the vendor or just a slightly more busy Thursday?

Bear in mind that from what you've told us so far even if completely legit, no concerns, etc. this potential client may have sent out a RFQ to 50 other partners and possibly to more than one hardware vendor's partners. A petabyte sounds like a hell of a lot of storage (and is), but to put it in perspective it's also just slightly more than you could get in two current Backblaze Storage Pods.

Frankly if you have a day job and enough side work already to keep you busy, you might want to quote this to lose it (assuming that there are other RFQs out) - and high enough that if you get it you're not going to be upset or scrambling but can afford to hire in someone to make it happen while you're working for The Man.

The biggest concern could be how you're going to be paid by this international entity, but it isn't. If they're in a position where they're purchasing petabyte storage inside the US they already have a US subsidiary company which is who you're going to be working for, so there's no questions about international payments, etc. International payments or transfers need to go from the parent company to the US company, and the US company can then pay you just like any other US-based company with zero credit history. If all of that isn't the case, then you're in the enviable position of being able to turn down the risky hassle of international money transfers because your bills are already covered.

Hm. I just ran the numbers on 480TB * 1024 (GB/TB) * 0.05 (per GB) * 2 = $49,152 for ~0.96PB of Backblaze pods. Is that what they're looking for? Admittedly, that's using 8TB helium drives, which frankly still make me more than a little twitchy because I never want to depend on long-term storage that requires keeping the second-smallest atom from migrating out of a warm enclosure. With 4TB drives, that gets probably ~$25k ~$12k more expensive because it'd be 4 boxes, and other changes due to the increased number of cheaper drives.

 

[sapphirescales]

No way in hell I'd take this deal unless it was paid via ACH. I'd also accept bitcoin as I have much more trust in bitcoin than I do in our archaic monetary system here in the United States, where paper flies everywhere and it takes up to 30 days before you know if you really have the money or not.

Let me put it to you this way. I wanted to pay of my $50,000 auto loan that I'd temporarily taken out and I had to pay with some sort of weird certified cashier's check. It took almost 3 months for the lien to be released so I could re-title the vehicle. Why? Because of all the paper BS. I'm under no illusions that Bitcoin is going to replace national currencies, but I can't wait for transactions to be INSTANT and non-reversible except by the recipient. It's absolutely ridiculous. Cash has been replaced by a system that is FAR inferior in terms of security and on top of it all, you have to pay transaction fees and other BS.

 

[MDD1963]

Who just asks for '1 Petabyte', without assorted stipulations about OS, it being a cluster, 10 GBe capable, with/'without HA, etc....?

I'd be pretty suspicious, too.....

I 'd be fully prepared for the large overpayment, with request for instant refund of the difference... ; classic.

 

[TECCS]

cover yourself do terms etc and cover yourself if they don't want to agree to money upfront son't do the work. its better to be lose 60k+ of work than be 60K+ in the hole kicking yourself

 

[Diggs]

With respect, for such a large workorder I'm surprised that you were't contacted directly by phone or email.
If I was going to spend north of 60K I would want to meet the person/s involved face-to-face for a little tete a tete over coffee or lunch. (Or given the size of the contract - in an office setting with all involved present).

Contacting you via a link on your site sound dubious to me.

Ummmm - Not really. I used to be a buyer for a medium size manufacturing company. I'd purchase about $10 million annually. For a $60,000 one-time purchase I'd just send out a bunch of RFQs (Request for Quotes) and see which quotes interested me. Then I'd start making contact. Any that wanted payment up front got their quote trashed with a chuckle and a smile (you wish...). We'd pay a deposit or partial on hardware and equipment, never on labor.

 

[Archon Prime]

I won't deal with anything that comes through my contact form without calling the person or face to face communication in regards to something as thorough as that. Email correspondence with something that is dealing with that much hardware and money, not a chance.

 

[cypress]

Yeah I would schedule a call and get more information that is a hefty sum and I would proceed with caution regardless of what happens next.

 

[E Bell]

Thank you all for the responses. You all are about as skeptical as I am. Yes, not only did I perform research on the person(s) and company, but also analyzed the headers of the email and the incoming link. They checked out. LinkedIn matches name and company. Everything checks out. So looks legit from the research standpoint.

I can say this is not the first company that has contacted us regarding the vendor solution from their website. It just happens to be the largest yet. We've had at least a half a dozen over the last 12 months. Some in the DFW area and some in the Houston metroplex. One guy but a $6k rack mounted NAS with all SSD for his Control4 home entertainment and automation solution. He was a big music and movie buff that didn't want to sacrifice quality. Oh and BTW he reached out to me via email...same contact form. Yes, there is a big difference between $6k and $60k, but still happens.

Regarding whether or not he is seeking other quotes from approximately 10 other companies listed on the vendor's sight I'm not aware. I can say that I'm listed first. When I spoke with the vendor regarding the specs for a 1 PB solution and entered a deal registration the account rep who handles all of Texas did not mention any "competitive" bids with other partners. Whether there is or not, I'm not sure.

The customer did come to me with a specific vendor solution as a start; however, it was an older solution and we were able to present a newer solution. Yes, the original was a SAS with HAC. I will tell you the solution includes 84 - 12 TB drives.

The quote went out this afternoon.

 

[E Bell]

No redundancy? A missed opportunity!

Not a missed opportunity. Customer decision to go with 1PB raw with RAID5. He turned down HAC and some other options presented.

Again, keep in mind the customer came to me looking to purchase specific product(s). Maybe my initial description of "1PB storage solution" left it open for interpretation in the initial request. The customer came looking to purchase product A with 1 PB or storage...not to actually design and present a solution. The customer already had the solution in mind, he was simply looking to purchase the equipment. This would be no different than going to Amazon or NewEgg and entering in the equipment you would like to purchase. The purpose of the solution is for Veeam backup storage.

Now, I did my due diligence as a partner in making sure the equipment he initially chose would meet his needs. I reiterated with him that this is an advantage of working through a partner and not purchasing the equipment from aforementioned sellers. As previously stated, we were able to match him up with newer equipment that afforded him a faster processor, better expansion capabilities, 10GbE instead of 1GbE with his original choice, etc.

I really appreciate all the input from everyone. It is welcomed. I knew what I was getting into when I asked the question. I understand that even though I've been around the forum for a while and offered some input I'm not really "known". I've been in the IT business since 1995. I originally had a brick 'n mortar store back in 1997 when part of distributors application process was to take a picture of your sign outside a physical existence. I've spec'd, quoted, installed large projects in the past...just never had any dealings with an international company. One of first jobs was with a school district. We cleared $35k on the deal. There was no way my partner nor I could fund this especially with net 30 terms. So we worked a deal with the distributor/manufacturer at the time where we did a dual purchase order. How's that for creative financing/funding for a project.

I found out yesterday the transaction will actually take place in the US. The gentlemen I've been dealing with are located out of their corporate offices in Mexico. They've had a US presence for a number of years and are currently building a US-based operations. More details to come later if I win the bid...or even if I don't.

The vendor is also looking at creating a "customer story" or "use case" based on this customer and the equipment chosen. So, the vendor has had some additional questions as well. If the customer decides to go with the study the vendor is looking to provide additional incentives. This is another reason to purchase equipment for an approved distributor instead of Amazon. You develop and build those relationships and incentives happen...sometimes. I'm with the majority of you all when you go to purchase from a distributor/wholesaler and it winds up costing more than if you picked it up via Amazon, Newegg or even locally with Staples, Fry's, Micro Center or even a regional wholesaler.

 

[fencepost]

If they know what they're doing I guess.....

I can't comprehend that kind of capacity and 12TB drives with only RAID5. They might as well just do RAID0, because with 12TB drives if they lose one there's a decent chance they'll lose a second during a rebuild process hammering all of them, and then the array is gone. At least with RAID0 it's clear up front that it's risky.

Edit: Assuming a sustained transfer of 200 MB/s (the HGST drives list 255 MB/s sustained) you're looking at 17 hours to completely read/write one of those drives, and I'm doubtful that you'd see that kind of sustained volume during a rebuild - particularly not if it's a background rebuild with the array still in normal use. Figure a full day of the other drives also going over all of their rarely-read sections for a rebuild, and hoping that nothing else comes up with errors. *shudder*

 

[Markverhyden]

I still have an issue with the original requested config. Unless the underlying hardware supports hot spare(s) that's a lot of risk with RAID 5 for that amount of data. And having that many drives just makes the stats riskier. Take an 8 drive array as an example. I'd be comfortable with 7 drives as RAID 6 and one hot spare. That would give me a 2 drive failure buffer before I need to start panicking. Over 80 drives? I'd want RAID 6 and maybe 4-5 hot spares. Backing up is another story.

 

[glricht]

... Backing up is another story.

You got that right! I'm getting heartburn just thinking about it.

 

[E Bell]

Yes, the hardware supports hot swappable drives. We could go RAID6 and add some additional spares. There were other "issues" pointed out to the customer regarding the setup/configuration (i.e., maximum volume size, etc.).

Backing up...we offered ways this can be accomplished especially being they have another site capable of hosting equipment. The customer has currently chosen not to implement this.

You all bring something else of interest. If a customer comes looking to purchase equipment x, y and z and it may not be in their best interest...how would you handle that? For example, they want a specific motherboard, video adapter and CPU that may not work the best together would you still sell them the parts? Granted this is apples and oranges, but again if they come to you to purchase equipment and not develop/implement/setup/configure...The solution works and will accomplish, but may not be the best. Do you still sell based on their specs? Of course, but how far do you take it? Being a partner with a vendor we want to point out the pros and cons as best as possible, but you could also take it to a point where you could push the customer away and then they will just go to either another partner or purchase "off-the-shelf".

Another would be Seagate versus Western Digital hard drives? I'm a partner with both. I quoted both and will let the customer ultimately decide. I have my opinion and can offer pros and cons for both.