How many APs

[HCHTech]

Same old question, I'm afraid.

I've got a church whose existing WAPs are getting old. I'm going to put in a small Ubiquiti switch and some APs. I'm trying to work out how many of the things I need.

I have 4 areas to cover. There are existing ethernet runs to the approximate center of each area in the ceiling.

The interior partitions are metal stud & drywall, wooden doors.

The first area is the rectangular office wing, single story, about 3500 sq. feet. Hallway down the middle, offices on both sides. 45' x 78'

The main builiding is 3 floors, 10' height, with a drop ceiling about 18" down from the top. I don't know the construction of the floors, but they must not be concrete since we can see the wifi signals of the lower floors from the upper floors (although dimished, of course). Each floor is rectangular and just over 10,000 sq. ft. Hallway down the middle, rooms on both sides. 74' x 136'

Note this does not include the sanctuary - they specifically do NOT provide wireless for parishioners - haha. They have their sound and video computers wired, but no wireless on purpose. I guess they don't want them distracted with facebook. Tee hee.

I'm thinking I could start with 4 AP-Pros, then put an in-wall unit (most rooms have wired ethernet) in any rooms that don't end up with full coverage. This wouldn't require running any new lines, but might not really be the best answer.

Their internet is Comcast business - I measured150/30 the last time I was there outside of business hours (no usage).

Good plan? Arguments for doing 2 APs per floor of lower power placed at 1/3 and 2/3 instead of a single AP per floor placed in the middle?

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Really hard to say without "seeing it" and doing a bit of site survey. It's always better to do more APs closer together at low power than trying to cover with a small amount of AP at high power.

 

[Markverhyden]

Pop a ceiling tile to see what they have above. If you see a metal pan there is concrete. Have they made any estimates on how many wireless users?

 

[HCHTech]

There are only about a dozen employees, and none of their workstations or network printers are wireless (but most of them probably connect a smartphone because the cell signal there isn't great). Wireless is mainly used for presenter laptops for classes & when there are rentals. So let's say a baseline usage of 12-15 depending on staffing, maybe a dozen laptops during board meetings once per month, and maximum possible usage might be a rental where they gave out the password to the guest network and ended up with 350 clients (most of them smartphones) for an afternoon.

There is a metal corregated surface above the drop ceiling, so I guess the floors are concrete. There is a very large open staircase that connects the floors at one end, so I guess the wifi is bleeding in from there since we can get signals from the WAPs on the different floors most places.

Here is a terrible cell phone picture of the first floor plan:



The red dots are where the existing WAPs are in the ceiling. The office wing is on the right and the larger space on the left is basically duplicated on the 2nd and 3rd floors.

 

[Markverhyden]

Currently is there 1 AP per floor for the bigger space? Is the first floor plan repeated on the other two? You mentioned 350 people. Were they all in one room? There should be a occupancy permit posted somewhere, wonder what that says for maximum number of people?

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Doing a site survey with existing APs is a start.
Find out where their "poor spots" are.
Based on the pic of that floor plan...depending on the construction and other factors....replacing those 2x APs with 2x new Unifi APs might be enough. But things like "wall construction" and "other wireless interference" and "blue tooth things" and "wireless printers" and...and....and...can cut into that.

If they have existing ethernet runs...putting in some "in-walls" can be a way to easily reinforce weak spots.
Don't forget the Unifi "Pro" models have a second bridged ETH port..so you can take an existing ethernet run that's already up in the ceiling...slice it..stick a Pro there...

 

[HCHTech]

Don't forget the Unifi "Pro" models have a second bridged ETH port..so you can take an existing ethernet run that's already up in the ceiling...slice it..stick a Pro there...

Ooh. Right. I think that's the answer to getting more APs. I was afraid I'd have to add the cost of doing additional runs to to support that idea. I'm new to the Unifi world, and this whole "what equipment do you need to do what you want" question is the hardest one right now. It's abundantly clear on their support pages that they don't do recommendations. I get it that they don't want to be on the hook for "you told us this would work" challenges, but the learning cure on which of their models is best at what is a bit steep.

 

[HCHTech]

Currently is there 1 AP per floor for the bigger space? Is the first floor plan repeated on the other two? You mentioned 350 people. Were they all in one room? There should be a occupancy permit posted somewhere, wonder what that says for maximum number of people?

Yes. The first floor plan is basically repeated on the 2nd and 3rd floors. The number of rooms are different, but the basic layout is the same.

Generically, how would you address the situation you describe. If the clients were all in a single space as opposed to spread out across the available space (I'm sure there are occasions where either is true). The existing WAPs are failing, so it's not really as easy as doing a site survey with them. They aren't performing at their best (one is cycling on and off for some reason) so almost any configuration with good equipment is going to be an improvement over the current situation.

I'm thinking about replacing the single centered unit on each floor with two units and about 1/3 the way down the hallway and 2/3 of the way. Once that is done, a site survey to check for weak spots and add in-wall units where necessary. There are no wireless printers, no cordless phones & only one microwave. They are on a sizable plot of land so there are also no neighboring networks to worry about. I suspect it will be hard for me to screw this up, I'm more concerned that it is my first big-space install with equipment I'm unfamiliar with.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

There "should be" additional equipment to do it call optimally. While Unifi APs can/will technically work with other brand switches and routers, you get to appreciate the whole "Unifi controller software" when you have the entire Unifi technology stack there.....meaning Unifi Gateway, Unifi POE switch, Unifi APs, and local Unifi controller. (so I'd get a cloud key). (for your numbers I'd get a USG Pro-4 gateway too, not the regular little one).

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

You can "shoot from the hip" and plan something like 40' spacing 'tween APs...for office areas with smaller offices and average light construction walls in between 'em.

 

[Markverhyden]

I'm with @YeOldeStonecat. Add more AP's, I was thinking 2-3 per floor for the multistory as well. UAP‑HD's should do the trick everywhere, rated 500 users per AP which should give plenty of room for growth. They need to understand that the wireless stuff is not going to shrink over the years so they need to plan this with plenty of overhead. Make sure that they are aware of the need for bandwidth shaping by controlling the pipe for each connection. A 1mb connection is fine for email and basic web surfing. But if stuff is being streamed to mobile devices, even if it's locally hosted onsite, you need something like 5-7mb to keep the quality up there.

 

[HCHTech]

OK, awesome - thanks, guys. I just sold them a new Sonicwall last fall, so I don't think we'll be replacing that, but we already have the APs on a separate switch, so I can start with a Unifi POE switch, cloud controller & APs and go from there, I think. I think this will be a good way to dip my toes into the Unifi world - the client is easy going, and only 2 minutes from my place....so I won't be looking at an hour's drive for the inevitable shakedown problems.