Help with getting started as a technician/starting up a repair business.

[cbsnyder87]

Except that ..

Look windows licencing is pretty complicated. No, according to the actual licencing you'd need to use an OEM CD from that manufacturer for that computer. According to the Windows licencing you're actually supposed to contact the OEM and request a new disk.

See, I just read through the EULA on my Windows 8.1 OEM installation and there is not one clause in there that states anything remotely close to what you're saying. Not saying you are feeding me BS, at all. But this is a perfect example of what confuses the daylights out of me about the MS EULA.

I have read stories of "mystery shoppers" from MS checking to see if you are doing things right by posing as a customer. You don't get it right and you get a hefty fine (up to $75 grand!!). I'm trying to avoid that and do my work honestly.

 

[carrcomp]

When I have a few extra minutes, I'll find the exact Microsoft site I had seen it on. Pretty sure it was the refurbisher terms, but I'll need to look.

I do want to point out though that I've never had an OEM charge me for recovery media when I call and explain who I am.

 

[cbsnyder87]

Windows 7 Ultimate EULA (pulled right off the computer I'm currently using)

Paragraph 3e:

"Storage.You may store one copy of the software on a storage device, such as a network server. You may use that copy to install the software on any other computer to which a license has been assigned."

This would seem to say that you can use a single copy on any computer you want as long as the license associated with that computer is used to activate the software. In other words, software is software. It's all the same. It's the licensing that verifies it can be installed on said computer...not the disc. But...I could be wrong. You have to be a lawyer to understand some of this jargon.

Paragraph 4:

"During activation, the software will send information about the software and the computer to Microsoft. This information includes the version, language and product key of the software, the Internet protocol address of the computer, and information derived from the hardware configuration of the computer.... Some changes to your computer components or the software may require you to reactivate the software. The software will remind you to activate it until you do."

This tells me that I can update any hardware on any computer, or replace with identical hardware, and just simply "reactivate", or retype the license key, and I'm good to go. The software will no longer legally be used on the old hardware. This would also mean that I can take a HDD out of one computer with Windows installed, put the HDD in another computer as the boot drive, and all I should have to do is "reactivate" it with the original license and I'm good to go. In other words, the license key follows the software, not the computer it's installed on since all the hardware could be changed and it most definitely would not be the "same computer" other than the case with the key stuck to it...and I don't believe MS intends for their software to be tied to a computer case. This paragraph completely debunks that theory, which I've read in a few places. "The software must follow the COA stuck to the computer"...wrong according to this very paragraph.

Paragraph 17a seems to totally verify my transplanted HDD scenario:

"Software Other than Windows Anytime Upgrade. You may transfer the software and install it on another computer for your use. That computer becomes the licensed computer. You may not do so to share this license between computers."

Paragraph 10:

"Media. If you acquired the software on a disc or other media, you may make one backup copy of the media. You may use it only to reinstall the software on the licensed computer."

This, to me, contradicts the previous quoted paragraphs. If the license is what verifies my eligibility to use the software, who the heck cares how many copies I make? The copies are 100% useless without a license key and activation, so what's the problem?

Paragraph 18a and c:

(a)"Software Other Than Windows Anytime Upgrade. The first user of the software may make a one time transfer of the software and this agreement, by transferring the original media, the certificate of authenticity, the product key and the proof of purchase directly to a third party. The first user must remove the software before transferring it separately from the computer. The first user may not retain any copies of the software."
(c)"Other Requirements. Before any permitted transfer, the other party must agree that this agreement applies to the transfer and use of the software."

These tell me that I can purchase a computer from anyone as long as they agree (preferably in writing) that they transfer their Windows to me. However, it says absolutely nothing about the second user of the software transferring it to another party (me selling the computer to a customer after refurbishing/cleaning/upgrading/repairing it). Does this mean any computer purchased must be wiped clean of Windows and have a brand new one with a brand new key installed???

 

[Rayspcsolutions]

Is this retail version or oem eula? The way I understand is that retail versions can me moved to a different computer but oem not.... somebody please correct me if I am wrong ... like @carrcomp said these eula's are complicated

 

[cbsnyder87]

Is this retail version or oem eula? The way I understand is that retail versions can me moved to a different computer but oem not.... somebody please correct me if I am wrong ... like @carrcomp said these eula's are complicated

If that's true, then I'm totally lost. ALL computers, except custom built ones for sole personal use, have an OEM. Dell, HP, Toshiba, the local computer guy, etc. All of them are OEMs. That would mean that the OEM is the "first user" and he would not be allowed to transfer his own product to someone else in a sale.

As far as the EULA I quoted, here's screen shots of a Win 7 Enterprise retail computer (the one I pulled the EULA from) and a Win 8.1 Pro OEM (the Win 8.1 is horrendous resolution because it was taken using Splashtop...sorry). BOTH have the option to "change product key". If MS prohibits transferring OEM versions, why is there an option to change the product key? Since it's an OEM install you could not possibly use another key unless it was an OEM key. But now the initial OEM key is useless because it can't be transferred and what sense would that make?

 

[phaZed]

Changing a hard drive would be considered a minor hardware change/upgrade so licensing is still valid. Changing a motherboard with an exact same model of MB is OK, but changing to a better or different motherboard constitutes a "New" computer and the MS licensing is considered invalid.

No, you can not legally transplant a drive to a new computer and be good to go. That only works if the software is unactivated (No key inserted yet) and your doing something like a deployment server or similar. Once you activate the software it is legally tied to that one computer... forever.

You can't go with the EULA because it is exactly that, the END USER License Agreement. For refurbishers there is a separate set of rules.

OEM rules dictate that you install Windows from the OEM installation media. Period. Retail versions are supposed to be activated ONE time per computer and not to be installed on a different computer. Supposedly, you can however activate the software up to 5 times (Legally) on the same computer before you are required to call the MS number for over the phone activated (Which is easy to do in any event). You can activate that same key up to five times on any computer, however (Not legally).

Whether or not you choose to follow these legalities is truly up to you, however. There was a thread about this about a year back with techs agreeing and disagreeing and even some techs contacting MS for clarification. Bottom line that I got out of that conversation was this:

1. MS licensing terms are meant to mean "one key, one cd = one computer" but the TOS, EULA, etc. really seem to fail at adequately conveying that with certainty.
2. MS licensing terms are contradictory to themselves in a few areas which causes a fairly large grey area.
3. Upon techs contacting MS directly, MS had difficulty pointing them in the right direction and/or unable to clarify the contradictions after being made aware of our situation as refurbishers.

You should consider being a MS refurbisher but there are plenty that are not.
You should consider obtaining OEM disks, but many do not.

Bottom line is this: Microsoft virtually turns a blind eye to the one-disk or OEM disk rules so long as the system is activated with it's valid OEM/Retail license key. They seem to only really care about re-use of keys on multiple systems (Pirating) or the sale, for profit, of the software on venues such as Ebay or pizza tech shops.

 

[Rayspcsolutions]

To add to your confusion I think enterprise versions has even different eula terms

Edit: ^^^^^ what @phaZed said is why we say the licensing is complicated. I had the retail wrong .. which I now remember reading about on here a while ago. I don't think I ever bought a retail version. If i did it was back in the 95-98 days.

 

[phaZed]

If that's true, then I'm totally lost. ALL computers, except custom built ones for sole personal use, have an OEM. Dell, HP, Toshiba, the local computer guy, etc. All of them are OEMs. That would mean that the OEM is the "first user" and he would not be allowed to transfer his own product to someone else in a sale.

As far as the EULA I quoted, here's screen shots of a Win 7 Enterprise retail computer (the one I pulled the EULA from) and a Win 8.1 Pro OEM (the Win 8.1 is horrendous resolution because it was taken using Splashtop...sorry). BOTH have the option to "change product key". If MS prohibits transferring OEM versions, why is there an option to change the product key? Since it's an OEM install you could not possibly use another key unless it was an OEM key. But now the initial OEM key is useless because it can't be transferred and what sense would that make?

I think what your missing is this:
1. The software is tied to the computer, not the human that owns the computer. Yes, he can sell his computer as a private party with no repercussions.
2. As a computer business owner you CAN NOT legally purchase a computer and not reload Windows using an OEM disk.. this is where refurbishers come into play. You are required to bring the computer to a factory-default state before resale.

As for the "Change Product Key" option. There are only a few select cases in which this is used. From what I have had to deal with it is this:
1. To input a different key if your OEM key has been blacklisted. Some keys get stolen and OEM's usually get a special key or subset of keys that is shipped out on many computers. If someone gets hold of this key and it ends up on the internet and MS finds out.. then it will be blacklisted and will no longer activate. Once you call MS and provide them with the blacklisted key they will eventually issue you a new key.
2. On occasion, some systems will "lose" their activation in which case it may be necessary to re-input the OEM key, not change it, but this is the way to get to that prompt via the GUI.
3. If you run a deployment server or run from images, you may not be prompted for the key during an installation, it will just time out quietly after the 30 days or whatever. Again, the "Change Product Key" is how to resolve that.
4. Businesses that have a VLK (Volume License Key) may find themselves in a situation where they no longer have a VLK and need to purchase and re-license their machines individually.

You can "Change Product Key" from NONE to *Something* - So technically not incorrect verbiage, but yes, the wording could be better for this function.

Windows 8 is a whole other ball of wax. Licensing is stored in the UEFI bios so the motherboard is what licenses Windows 8. If the OEM UEFI bios keys are not there it will not work. As a refurbisher you are still legally required to use the OEM installation media but any Win8 of the correct version will work with the UEFI key.

The reason you are required to use the OEM version is because the OEM disks come with all the "Value Added" software whether that be drivers, antivirus software, etc. You may or not want these things, but as the computer originally comes with these things they are legally required to be there for a few reasons:
1. Vendors paid for their software to be there.
2. Drivers are installed and computer works fully at first boot ("OOBE") which provides a "Great User Experience" and gives Windows a good name, in essence.
3. As the customer that bought the computer, you are legally entitled to have the same software that was sold to you, out of the box.. so this limits MS's exposure to bait-and-switch or other legal battles resulting from providing software that differs from an Out-of-Box computer.

 

[cbsnyder87]

Changing a hard drive would be considered a minor hardware change/upgrade so licensing is still valid. Changing a motherboard with an exact same model of MB is OK, but changing to a better or different motherboard constitutes a "New" computer and the MS licensing is considered invalid.

No, you can not legally transplant a drive to a new computer and be good to go. That only works if the software is unactivated (No key inserted yet) and your doing something like a deployment server or similar. Once you activate the software it is legally tied to that one computer... forever.

I don't understand how either of those scenarios jive with this part of the EULA that I quoted above:

Paragraph 17a:

"Software Other than Windows Anytime Upgrade. You may transfer the software and install it on another computer for your use. That computer becomes the licensed computer. You may not do so to share this license between computers."

You can't go with the EULA because it is exactly that, the END USER License Agreement. For refurbishers there is a separate set of rules.

Then how can repairs occur? If a customer came in wanting a "refurbishment" of their junked up computer, then the EULA definitely covers this. It clearly states "...another computer for your use."

Retail versions are supposed to be activated ONE time per computer and not to be installed on a different computer.

Then why does the EULA I quote above (which is from a retail version of Windows 7) expressly state that it can be installed on another computer?

Whether or not you choose to follow these legalities is truly up to you, however. There was a thread about this about a year back with techs agreeing and disagreeing and even some techs contacting MS for clarification. Bottom line that I got out of that conversation was this:

1. MS licensing terms are meant to mean "one key, one cd = one computer" but the TOS, EULA, etc. really seem to fail at adequately conveying that with certainty.
2. MS licensing terms are contradictory to themselves in a few areas which causes a fairly large grey area.
3. Upon techs contacting MS directly, MS had difficulty pointing them in the right direction and/or unable to clarify the contradictions after being made aware of our situation as refurbishers.

You should consider being a MS refurbisher but there are plenty that are not.
You should consider obtaining OEM disks, but many do not.

I'm all fine and dandy with those 3 points because none of them disallow me from my suggested scenarios. As long as there is ONE license PER computer, that's all that matters is what I get out of the entire thing.

Please don't take me as argumentative. I'm just really trying to understand and this MS EULA jargon is really contradictory and illusive from the point that refurbishers/computer techs are trying to pinpoint.

It's almost as though MS could corner any refurbisher/tech into violating their confusing and contradictory EULA and fining them huge amounts. What footing does the tech have other than leaning on the "blind eye" of MS? I don't feel comfortable risking my entire business on the hope they continue to do so... Just my personality I suppose, lol. I need cold hard facts to put in a sheet protector and post to the wall of my shop in case someone ever comes in questioning me. *Points finger towards EULA on wall* "It's right there, I'm allowed to do this" or "it's right there, I'm not allowed to do that for you."

 

[cbsnyder87]

I think what your missing is this:
1. The software is tied to the computer, not the human that owns the computer. Yes, he can sell his computer as a private party with no repercussions.
2. As a computer business owner you CAN NOT legally purchase a computer and not reload Windows using an OEM disk.. this is where refurbishers come into play. You are required to bring the computer to a factory-default state before resale.

As for the "Change Product Key" option. There are only a few select cases in which this is used. From what I have had to deal with it is this:
1. To input a different key if your OEM key has been blacklisted. Some keys get stolen and OEM's usually get a special key or subset of keys that is shipped out on many computers. If someone gets hold of this key and it ends up on the internet and MS finds out.. then it will be blacklisted and will no longer activate. Once you call MS and provide them with the blacklisted key they will eventually issue you a new key.
2. On occasion, some systems will "lose" their activation in which case it may be necessary to re-input the OEM key, not change it, but this is the way to get to that prompt via the GUI.
3. If you run a deployment server or run from images, you may not be prompted for the key during an installation, it will just time out quietly after the 30 days or whatever. Again, the "Change Product Key" is how to resolve that.
4. Businesses that have a VLK (Volume License Key) may find themselves in a situation where they no longer have a VLK and need to purchase and re-license their machines individually.

You can "Change Product Key" from NONE to *Something* - So technically not incorrect verbiage, but yes, the wording could be better for this function.

Windows 8 is a whole other ball of wax. Licensing is stored in the UEFI bios so the motherboard is what licenses Windows 8. If the OEM UEFI bios keys are not there it will not work. As a refurbisher you are still legally required to use the OEM installation media but any Win8 of the correct version will work with the UEFI key.

The reason you are required to use the OEM version is because the OEM disks come with all the "Value Added" software whether that be drivers, antivirus software, etc. You may or not want these things, but as the computer originally comes with these things they are legally required to be there for a few reasons:
1. Vendors paid for their software to be there.
2. Drivers are installed and computer works fully at first boot ("OOBE") which provides a "Great User Experience" and gives Windows a good name, in essence.
3. As the customer that bought the computer, you are legally entitled to have the same software that was sold to you, out of the box.. so this limits MS's exposure to bait-and-switch or other legal battles resulting from providing software that differs from an Out-of-Box computer.

Man, thanks a lot for your time to write all of this out and attempt to help me with this.

So my bottom line question is this: What makes a person a refurbisher according to Microsoft?

What makes the guy selling a personal computer different from the guy who built a custom one or refurbished one different from each other? Is it basically if you fall into the clause of "repair/rebuilding computers for the sole purpose of selling for profit"? That's not a direct quote from anywhere, I just basically created what I imagine a clause of "refurbishers" would look like, lol.

And what if a customer simply wants an upgraded motherboard, so he can have an upgraded CPU? Is that considered "refurbishment"? And would I have to tell the customer, "I'll have to reinstall a whole new version of Windows at your cost to do that"?

 

[phaZed]

I don't understand how either of those scenarios jive with this part of the EULA that I quoted above:

Paragraph 17a:

"Software Other than Windows Anytime Upgrade. You may transfer the software and install it on another computer for your use. That computer becomes the licensed computer. You may not do so to share this license between computers."

Activating Windows: frequently asked questions says:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/activating-windows-faq#1TC=windows-7

You can't use the same Windows product key to activate Windows 7 on more computers than the Microsoft Software License Terms allow. Usually, the license terms allow the product key to be used on only one computer.

If you use your installation disc or a USB flash drive to install Windows 7 on a second computer, you'll need to buy an additional copy of the same edition of Windows 7 to obtain a new product key. For more information, see Get a new Windows 7 product key.

Then how can repairs occur? If a customer came in wanting a "refurbishment" of their junked up computer, then the EULA definitely covers this. It clearly states "...another computer for your use."

Then why does the EULA I quote above (which is from a retail version of Windows 7) expressly state that it can be installed on another computer?

Yes, but your not the EU (End User). Whatever is in the EULA basically does not apply to you. Like I said before, MS's terms and EULA are clear as mud which causes a REAL grey area.. like really, nobody seems to really know. All we DO know is that Microsoft intends their licensing to be one license per computer.. forever. Not transferable.
I found this website that poses your same question on the EULA item 17a:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/41497919

...and it links to a Microsoft refurbisher document that states (on the first bullet point):

OEM Software may NOT be transferred to another machine. Even if the original
laptop, PC or Server is no longer in use, or if the software is removed from the
original hardware, OEM licenses are tied to the device on which the software is
first installed.

then a reply to the post goes on to say:

Actually, malch, you were right (or mostly so) the first time. There is a way to do the transfer in strict compliance with Microsoft's licenses. It is true that an OEM license can't be transferred from one computer to another. But once a Windows 7 upgrade is applied, all terms and restrictions of the OEM license are nullified and replaced by a the new Windows 7 EULA, which does allow a transfer to another computer. You'll find that in paragraphs 15 and 17 of the Windows 7 EULA, for the Home Premium, Professional and Ultimate Editions. Paragraph 15 says the new EULA replaces the old license, and paragraph 17 says the upgraded software (except for "anytime upgrade") can be transferred to a new computer.

Unfortunately, I can't link directly to the EULA, but you can get copies at this page:

http://www.microsoft.com/About/Legal/EN/US/IntellectualProperty/UseTerms/Default.aspx

Is it clear as MUD now? Good!

As for "refurbishment", I suppose a copy of the software could constitute a full backup for use in case your computer dies but does not imply it can be installed and used as a working Windows onto another machine.. again, very confusing and your questions are warranted.

I'm all fine and dandy with those 3 points because none of them disallow me from my suggested scenarios. As long as there is ONE license PER computer, that's all that matters is what I get out of the entire thing.

Please don't take me as argumentative. I'm just really trying to understand and this MS EULA jargon is really contradictory and illusive from the point that refurbishers/computer techs are trying to pinpoint.

Yep, it all pretty much boils down to one license per computer. As long as you have that your, for all intents and purposes, good to go. I feel it safe to say that the majority of techs don't use OEM disks for reinstalls, as well. Good luck running a viable deployment server if you sling each and every OEM disk.

Bottom line for me is.. simply keep your intentions honorable and there will be no problems. Don't transfer keys, don't activate keys on CPU's that have no sticker, etc.

Like I said, no worries on the arguments, they are totally legitimate questions with no great answers, only half-answers.
If it makes you feel any better, I have not heard nor seen anyone get busted for such things unless you are blatantly doing something egregiously wrong such as activating the same key for every computer that comes in or selling bootleg software and keys.

 

[cbsnyder87]

Answering some of my own questions here, but that is causing new ones...

According to Microsoft's Refurbishment Program, there is a very fine definition of what a "refurbished" computer is, to them.

http://www.microsoft.com/refurbishedpcs/RRPFAQ.aspx

It must not have an upgraded CPU and must contain the original motherboard. Not one of the same kind, but the original. If it's faulty upon acquisition, it must be replaced of the exact same kind.

I mean, that such a narrow definition of "refurbished" it's laughable. A lot of computers you can buy to "refurbish" and sell have CPUs, RAM, and motherboards so old they're useless. So a $25 computer with a $80 motherboard, a better $80 CPU, and a couple more gigs of RAM for $50 can sell for $300-$400 easy. Yet, according to MS's refurbishment guide, this computer would not be considered refurbished. So what can I do with the Windows that's already on the HDD? Can I reformat and reinstall with the same license and not have to pay for another Windows installation? Or do I have to install a brand new version of Windows with a whole new license? If so, why? It would seem to me that the original license is still there, so why can't it be "transferred" to the "new" computer?

 

[cbsnyder87]

Activating Windows: frequently asked questions says:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/activating-windows-faq#1TC=windows-7




Yes, but your not the EU (End User). Whatever is in the EULA basically does not apply to you. Like I said before, MS's terms and EULA are clear as mud which causes a REAL grey area.. like really, nobody seems to really know. All we DO know is that Microsoft intends their licensing to be one license per computer.. forever. Not transferable.
I found this website that poses your same question on the EULA item 17a:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/41497919

...and it links to a Microsoft refurbisher document that states (on the first bullet point):

then a reply to the post goes on to say:


Is it clear as MUD now? Good!

As for "refurbishment", I suppose a copy of the software could constitute a full backup for use in case your computer dies but does not imply it can be installed and used as a working Windows onto another machine.. again, very confusing and your questions are warranted.


Yep, it all pretty much boils down to one license per computer. As long as you have that your, for all intents and purposes, good to go. I feel it safe to say that the majority of techs don't use OEM disks for reinstalls, as well. Good luck running a viable deployment server if you sling each and every OEM disk.

Bottom line for me is.. simply keep your intentions honorable and there will be no problems. Don't transfer keys, don't activate keys on CPU's that have no sticker, etc.

Like I said, no worries on the arguments, they are totally legitimate questions with no great answers, only half-answers.
If it makes you feel any better, I have not heard nor seen anyone get busted for such things unless you are blatantly doing something egregiously wrong such as activating the same key for every computer that comes in or selling bootleg software and keys.

I can see this is going to get a lot more muddier before it gets clearer (if it ever does).

Can one narrow it down this way? "Every single computer that is data wiped for the sole purpose of being sold by you for profit requires a brand new installation of Windows. Regardless of upgrades, repairs, or replacements."

If it's for a repair that is going straight back to the customer who brought it in for said repair, no new Windows is needed. Windows may need to be reinstalled in the process of repairs, but the same license can be used for activation.

 

[Rayspcsolutions]

Here is a great post by @Cadishead Computers who is an admin here on TN about refurbishing.

https://www.technibble.com/forums/t...-and-the-ms-refurb-program.38785/#post-302843

 

[phaZed]

Man, thanks a lot for your time to write all of this out and attempt to help me with this.
So my bottom line question is this: What makes a person a refurbisher according to Microsoft?

This, the Microsoft Registered Refurbisher Program:
http://www.microsoft.com/RefurbishedPCs/RRP.aspx

What makes the guy selling a personal computer different from the guy who built a custom one or refurbished one different from each other? Is it basically if you fall into the clause of "repair/rebuilding computers for the sole purpose of selling for profit"? That's not a direct quote from anywhere, I just basically created what I imagine a clause of "refurbishers" would look like, lol.

Yep, if you plan on refurbishing and selling systems for profit, as a business, your a refurbisher.

And what if a customer simply wants an upgraded motherboard, so he can have an upgraded CPU? Is that considered "refurbishment"? And would I have to tell the customer, "I'll have to reinstall a whole new version of Windows at your cost to do that"?

Actually, not a refurbished but a "new" computer.
New license would legally be required, but not technically required. You can reactivate Windows with the new motherboard just fine... however, changing "too much" of a computer constitutes a "new build" of computer which legally requires a new license. A motherboard change to anything other than the original model of board would be considered "new license time". Now, in the real world.. being a betting man, I would say that most do not grab a new license for customers. Keep in mind that the refurbished market consists of the likes of TigerDirect, Newegg and similar.. you can see how a MS refurbisher license is a bit more tailored to that kind of operation instead of a break/fix individual basis.

 

[cbsnyder87]

I FREAKIN' FOUND IT!!! (part of it anyways...)

http://www.microsoft.com/refurbishedpcs/RRPFAQ.aspx

"If a refurbished PC has a pre-existing COA, is a new license needed?
Yes, unless the PC also has its original recovery media or hard disk based recovery image. A new license is required if the PC no longer has its original recovery media or hard disk based recovery image. This is explained fully in the Licensing Guide for Refurbished PCs."

So, as long as the original media or HDD recovery image is in the refurbisher's possession a new Windows installation is not required. So basically the COA and media must follow each other. Which, in a way, seems ridiculous because then the original case (for a desktop) must also follow along since the COA is stuck to it...that's pretty silly.

But at least I now know I can use the exact same install as long as I have the media to go along with it.

 

[Davena]

Callthatgirl has a great set of blogs for starting a computer business:

http://callthatgirl.biz/how-to-start-a-computer-repair-business/

 

[pcmedicri]

Bottom line is this: Microsoft virtually turns a blind eye to the one-disk or OEM disk rules so long as the system is activated with it's valid OEM/Retail license key. They seem to only really care about re-use of keys on multiple systems (Pirating) or the sale, for profit, of the software on venues such as Ebay or pizza tech shops.

Pizza tech shops? lol is this fo real?

 

[carrcomp]

The thing is, Microsoft technically will see anyone selling a computer that wasn't there's to being with to be a "refurbisher" when it comes to telling you that you didn't follow the rules. There are pawn shops around here that won't take computers because they don't want to deal with the hassle.

My rule : Register for the refurbisher program. At the very least you'll have an understanding as to what you can and can't do.

 

[cbsnyder87]

The thing is, Microsoft technically will see anyone selling a computer that wasn't there's to being with to be a "refurbisher" when it comes to telling you that you didn't follow the rules. There are pawn shops around here that won't take computers because they don't want to deal with the hassle.

My rule : Register for the refurbisher program. At the very least you'll have an understanding as to what you can and can't do.

I'm reading up on it this very minute, lol.

My remaining confusion revolves around upgrades. What if I want to buy a cheap old computer, upgrade the MOBO, RAM, and CPU and sell it as a custom? This would not fit MS' refurbishment standards, so I can't sell it as such. But do I need to reinstall Windows if it was loaded with a retail version at the time I bought it? I need to understand more about upgrading and selling custom PCs...and the benefits/drawbacks of retail Windows VS OEM Windows.