Help Troubleshooting Network

TECCS

TECCS

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Hi guys

so this is just some advice before i go out to a job. The customers are lovely and i have been out to them before.

They are having network issues that over the phone sound more like internet issues in my humble opinion. They have sky fibre broadband (FTTC) and it is fluctuating widely. they have had the fibre for a long time and have tried talking to sky who say that the problem isnt with them. (this hasn't just been a few days or weeks)

so the network is set up as follows

* sky router (don't know which one yet)
* a netgesr wireless extender used solely for the PS4 as won't connect via any other means apparently
* tp link powerline adapters plugged into the wall not on extension leads for 2 gaming PC's

There daughter and son are both home and having trouble gaming or sometimes general use of the internet. been told they have really high ping and the fluctuating speeds. (more noticable i think as they are both trying to game)

Just needing some advice on where to even start troubleshooting the problem.

I am not very up on networks. i know badsics and what i know lol

Thanks in advance.
 
What Mark said. Also, ping plotter (link below) should help pinpoint the issue. I would have one of the users install/setup and run a continuous (tracert) test to 8.8.8.8 or anything else highly-available on the internet for 12-24 hrs. The program will give you a graphical representation of the tracert and you will be able to see per-hop stats that will help you identify whether the issue is with your clients gateway, somewhere else in their service provider's infrastructure, or maybe even somewhere else on the internet.

https://www.pingplotter.com/
 
Hi guys. I was talking to the mother first off and then her husband came to talk to me he set the system up. he had the a powerline adapter into the lAN port of the wifi extender and all the other powerline adapters connecting to that which was then going wireless back to the router. both trying to game through that. I explained that wasn't the way to do it and to try to connect the poweline adapter to the router rather than the wifi extender and see if that helped but i was happy to come out to help if not. Not heard anything yet
 
So you just spent your time on this explaining to the guy how to possibly fix it...FOR FREE. I personally would have tried to get him to agree to let you come out and take a look, that way your at least getting paid for your time.
 
A couple of questions:
1.) does the extender have its own SSID or is it the same SSID as the main wifi? - if it's the same, other devices may be connecting to that one and the bandwidth is halved for each client connected to it.

2.) Try to ask them to better define "trouble gaming" if it's laggy or does display well, this could be an weak graphics card issue too. Normally I would say treat the gaming as a separate issue until the general internet browsing issues are resolved. However, checking to see if the trouble gaming still exists when they are playing across the LAN should help out a little, because if it doesn't exist across the LAN then you know it's internet related. If it does, well then you know it's either network related or the computers themselves.

The bad internet and bad gaming experience may be one in the same, but to further isolate the issue, put the gaming trouble as a symptom on hold.

3. Are these the only 3 devices on the network? Are there other devices that are having the trouble too? Smart TVs, PCs, printers? The most important here being printers. You want to know if it's an internal problem or an external. Is communication to the printer iffy too?

4. On the gaming PC lines is there other large items on the circuit such as the refrigerator, dishwasher, washing machines...etc

Check the logs on the router (if it's even enabled) and see if they are actual outages or if it shows nothing than I would probably throw in a different router to test if that solves the issue.

Let us know what you find when you go on site


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Encrypted Existence said:
So you just spent your time on this explaining to the guy how to possibly fix it...FOR FREE. I personally would have tried to get him to agree to let you come out and take a look, that way your at least getting paid for your time.
Click to expand...

To be fair I am out there quite often and they pay well. they give me extra money each time i go for a pint or whatever and are no trouble. so on the odd occasion i do over the phone with them
 
Yeah, but still your time. Not gonna get many places by giving away your talents. You could make people undervalue you.

In any event, if he must use powerline adapters, the proper way is

modem-->main router-->powerline-->secondary router-->client

I do most of my stuff from home now. We live in a townhome, lot of interfering wifi signals though. I have finally done the approach of a main AC1200 router in the middle floor. Ethernet dropped into the basement going to a small switch, will split that off into another wifi router(I don't need to but it's an extra won't be used for anything else in life), another ethernet cable going upstairs to another old wifi router(this actually is needed because signal isn't the greatest upstairs).

I was actually given an old buffalo terastation NAS device, so I think I'm going to put it in the basement and set up a workgroup on our home network, and create a couple of shared folders that at the very least are secured by creating a local user on the NAS device and setting permissions on those shared folders to be secured with a local username/password. Hopefully that will be enough to keep people off out of any files.

I will say if you are looking for a decent router to sell, these seem ok. I just changed to this one from one I had previously, but for the price I paid, it does well, especially considering we get all of our tv through streaming.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06X1CHFJ5?tag=incepin-20&th=1

Even has a function to blacklist devices, to do bandwidth control, and even an auto reboot timer to have it autoreboot on a set schedule, or the option to disable the led's. For the money, it's hard to beat. I paid 25 for mine. I have to reboot it every once in a while if my streams start buffering, but we use direct tv now, going to a roku express, and it seems that direct tv now uses more bandwidth than necessary in my opinion. It may not be noticeable on other services.
 
ohio_grad_06 said:
Yeah, but still your time. Not gonna get many places by giving away your talents. You could make people undervalue you.

In any event, if he must use powerline adapters, the proper way is

modem-->main router-->powerline-->secondary router-->client

I do most of my stuff from home now. We live in a townhome, lot of interfering wifi signals though. I have finally done the approach of a main AC1200 router in the middle floor. Ethernet dropped into the basement going to a small switch, will split that off into another wifi router(I don't need to but it's an extra won't be used for anything else in life), another ethernet cable going upstairs to another old wifi router(this actually is needed because signal isn't the greatest upstairs).

I was actually given an old buffalo terastation NAS device, so I think I'm going to put it in the basement and set up a workgroup on our home network, and create a couple of shared folders that at the very least are secured by creating a local user on the NAS device and setting permissions on those shared folders to be secured with a local username/password. Hopefully that will be enough to keep people off out of any files.

I will say if you are looking for a decent router to sell, these seem ok. I just changed to this one from one I had previously, but for the price I paid, it does well, especially considering we get all of our tv through streaming.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06X1CHFJ5?tag=incepin-20&th=1

Even has a function to blacklist devices, to do bandwidth control, and even an auto reboot timer to have it autoreboot on a set schedule, or the option to disable the led's. For the money, it's hard to beat. I paid 25 for mine. I have to reboot it every once in a while if my streams start buffering, but we use direct tv now, going to a roku express, and it seems that direct tv now uses more bandwidth than necessary in my opinion. It may not be noticeable on other services.
Click to expand...

So I am not quite following how the secondary router is used here is this being used as an access point for wifi and a switch for the LAN. As they only use the powerline adapters into computer LAN ports one in each room where they need it.

Sorry I follow what your saying but not why it needs to be done that way. just because i don't do much networking
 
So in my setup at my home for example, I use one router as the central hub. It serves out DHCP to my home network and handles all of that. I run another router in my upstairs used as an access point to simply extend my wifi network. So in effect, in my upstairs, there is a second wifi network that my wife in her home office connects to, but all of the network addresses etc all come from the router downstairs.

To get to that point, i ran an ethernet cable from my downstairs to my second floor where the secondary router sits. My access point is just an old router I had so I hooked it up, and disabled DHCP on it, so basically it serves the same function as a simple access point. It's not doing routing or anything, just putting out a signal.

In your case, you said you had an access point that was apparently the only way the PS4 for example will connect but it was having issues etc. I don't know if that was connected via wireless or by a wire, but with those powerline adapters, they are supposed to make the unused electrical wiring act like ethernet cable. So what I was meaning is if you are going to drop an access point for the PS4, then you would probably want to run from the main router, into the powerline adapter, then when it pops out the other side on the powerline adapter, take that ethernet wire into your access point so that you know it has a hardwire connection and not relying on a wireless signal which can be flaky.

Now as far as the kids getting high pings etc, if their connection for that comes in like this main router->powerline->client
Then you need to see first of all if you can plug a system maybe a laptop or whatever into their modem or device that comes from the ISP to see what type of signal you are actually getting from the ISP. So in other words you want to troubleshoot this way.

1. Plug system into ISP modem and go to a website say speedtest.net and run a test. Maybe someone else can recommend another site for checking ping
2. If all looks good at the ISP modem, plug a wire into their main router, repeat, make sure you are getting a good speed and ping etc. Do this on wired connection and on wireless
3. If the main router looks good, then work back and test each of the pc's plugged into the powerline adapters. If those test out good with your system, but not theirs, that person may have something wrong with their pc. If their pc tests out good, maybe the server they play on just has an issue.
4. Test the access point as well.

In other words, just start where the ISP brings in a connection, and work your way 1 device at a time backwards. For a home network they've got a few moving parts, so you will need to isolate it one part at a time. For example if you get good results from the ISP's modem but then plug into their router and have a bad connection, you may need to replace the router or update it's firmware etc. If their router works fine but coming from the powerline adapters does not work well, you may have an issue with one of the powerline adapters. When you test the powerline adapters, since it sounds like there are 2 in the mix here, disconnect one completely while you test the other one, just in case they are interfering with each other. Never really used powerline adapters, but since it does use unused frequencies in electrical wiring etc, it stands to reason that the two cold interfere with one another.

Depending on everything you run into, instead of using the powerline adapters, it may be preferable to run an ethernet cable to a central location between where the kids rooms are at, and see if you can drop a strong access point there, and get them both a good wireless card for their systems so they can connect via wifi if the powerline adapters are flaking out. Of course you could always try different powerline adapters:).

I will say though, if they are using an ISP provided router for their wifi/routing, that could be a major part of issues. I don't tend to trust routers provided by the ISP. Their quality and speed does not always seem great. I once had ATT dsl, paid for 12mbps. I was getting 10 or so of that at first, so ok I can deal with it. Started getting signal dropouts and bad throughput, got irritated with it(the unit was one of those modem/router all in ones). So I got annoyed and disabled the wifi on their unit and set it to where it was only allowed to give out maybe like 10 IP addresses, and set up my own router to come out of that and told it to handle all the routing etc. Magically my speeds, ping etc all came back where they should have been. Didn't have a lot of issues after that.
 
Last edited:
ohio_grad_06 said:
So in my setup at my home for example, I use one router as the central hub. It serves out DHCP to my home network and handles all of that. I run another router in my upstairs used as an access point to simply extend my wifi network. So in effect, in my upstairs, there is a second wifi network that my wife in her home office connects to, but all of the network addresses etc all come from the router downstairs.

To get to that point, i ran an ethernet cable from my downstairs to my second floor where the secondary router sits. My access point is just an old router I had so I hooked it up, and disabled DHCP on it, so basically it serves the same function as a simple access point. It's not doing routing or anything, just putting out a signal.

In your case, you said you had an access point that was apparently the only way the PS4 for example will connect but it was having issues etc. I don't know if that was connected via wireless or by a wire, but with those powerline adapters, they are supposed to make the unused electrical wiring act like ethernet cable. So what I was meaning is if you are going to drop an access point for the PS4, then you would probably want to run from the main router, into the powerline adapter, then when it pops out the other side on the powerline adapter, take that ethernet wire into your access point so that you know it has a hardwire connection and not relying on a wireless signal which can be flaky.

Now as far as the kids getting high pings etc, if their connection for that comes in like this main router->powerline->client
Then you need to see first of all if you can plug a system maybe a laptop or whatever into their modem or device that comes from the ISP to see what type of signal you are actually getting from the ISP. So in other words you want to troubleshoot this way.

1. Plug system into ISP modem and go to a website say speedtest.net and run a test. Maybe someone else can recommend another site for checking ping
2. If all looks good at the ISP modem, plug a wire into their main router, repeat, make sure you are getting a good speed and ping etc. Do this on wired connection and on wireless
3. If the main router looks good, then work back and test each of the pc's plugged into the powerline adapters. If those test out good with your system, but not theirs, that person may have something wrong with their pc. If their pc tests out good, maybe the server they play on just has an issue.
4. Test the access point as well.

In other words, just start where the ISP brings in a connection, and work your way 1 device at a time backwards. For a home network they've got a few moving parts, so you will need to isolate it one part at a time. For example if you get good results from the ISP's modem but then plug into their router and have a bad connection, you may need to replace the router or update it's firmware etc. If their router works fine but coming from the powerline adapters does not work well, you may have an issue with one of the powerline adapters. When you test the powerline adapters, since it sounds like there are 2 in the mix here, disconnect one completely while you test the other one, just in case they are interfering with each other. Never really used powerline adapters, but since it does use unused frequencies in electrical wiring etc, it stands to reason that the two cold interfere with one another.

Depending on everything you run into, instead of using the powerline adapters, it may be preferable to run an ethernet cable to a central location between where the kids rooms are at, and see if you can drop a strong access point there, and get them both a good wireless card for their systems so they can connect via wifi if the powerline adapters are flaking out. Of course you could always try different powerline adapters:).

I will say though, if they are using an ISP provided router for their wifi/routing, that could be a major part of issues. I don't tend to trust routers provided by the ISP. Their quality and speed does not always seem great. I once had ATT dsl, paid for 12mbps. I was getting 10 or so of that at first, so ok I can deal with it. Started getting signal dropouts and bad throughput, got irritated with it(the unit was one of those modem/router all in ones). So I got annoyed and disabled the wifi on their unit and set it to where it was only allowed to give out maybe like 10 IP addresses, and set up my own router to come out of that and told it to handle all the routing etc. Magically my speeds, ping etc all came back where they should have been. Didn't have a lot of issues after that.
Click to expand...


Right I'm following you. There is no modem as built into the router as they are over in the UK. as for the not liking the ISP router I don't either but with sky the company they are with they do not have the option to change router as they will not give out user name and password for it and there is nowhere on the router interface for it either so switching is not possible. however they have asked for a new router to be sent
 
Process of elimination....start with the farther device OUT on the network (likely the ISP supplied gateway)...and work your way inwards from there, 1x device at a time.

Run a steady ping -t to some public IP like one of the ISPs DNS servers, or Google DNS (8.8.8.8)..and run a steady ping T to the LAN IP of the gateway. Work your way back into the depth of the network, 1x device at a time..until you find where a break is.
 
I made a handful of Ethernet test cables from some leftover scrap for times like this. The longest is 150'. It makes it real easy to jump the wireless signals between network devices and find the fault.

It is a trip hazard running these cables throughout the house or office but it is an effective and fast troubleshooting tool.
 
I see what you are saying. Nothing to stop you from setting up a new router plugged into the existing one and ignoring their old one I suppose. But good suggestions from everyone else. Just work it one item at a time until you find the common denominator.
 
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