Global warming is nothing more than a scam

[JoeTech]

This thread is like Steve Ballmer saying no one is going to want to buy an Iphone and we all know how that turned out.

 

[Metanis]

Just in time for this thread, the 4 biggest things YOU personally can do in order to solve Climate Change!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmc...ate-change-according-to-science/#1f2e85b7635c

I'll save you the click...

1) Don't have children.
2) Don't have a car.
3) Don't fly.
4) Don't eat meat.

Sure, I'm going to get right on that agenda! Just as soon as Al Gore and Leonardo DiCaprio do!

PS, here is Leo's dinghy...

 

[Blues]

So far I am good on 2 out of 4

 

[phaZed]

It won't be too long before we can look back and see how stupid our species is.

 

[Diggs]

It won't be too long before we can look back and see how stupid our species is.

We can do that now - chuckles....... (But yes, how soon will the collective realization happen?)

 

[fincoder]

When the "true believers" start acting like it's real and show some serious personal changes to their lifestyles then the rest of us might get interested.

The personal 'lifestyle changes' that you're sugesting won't fix climate change, and aren't practical because they would hurt some people (poor) more than others (rich). There needs to be changes to the economy: the true cost of fossil fuels need to be included in their price (eliminating government subsidies, adding the cost incurred to the planet), then the cost of renewable energy without subsidies would be cheaper than fossil fuels, then the market will take care of the rest.

The cost to individuals (initially) in higher energy costs is then spread over the entire population and so becomes minimal, and eventually energy costs would become cheaper because the inputs such as solar and wind are free. The only losers would be fossil fuel companies that don't re-invest into low-carbon technologies.

Pumped hydro systems are a well-known technology that can easily be built today to store energy from intermittent renewable energy sources, for release as base-load power. Large battery systems are also getting cheaper (e.g. Tesla).

Business investment in new coal-fired power plants has dried up, because the bean-counters know they're a bad investment. The only way to keep building these is for governments to pay for them, which is fine if you want a socialist economy.

 

[phaZed]

Oh, and if all of the sea ice is going south why are huge state and country sized ice shelves breaking off and moving away from the south and melting in the last few decades?

 

[Metanis]

The personal 'lifestyle changes' that you're sugesting won't fix climate change, and aren't practical because they would hurt some people (poor) more than others (rich). There needs to be changes to the economy: the true cost of fossil fuels need to be included in their price (eliminating government subsidies, adding the cost incurred to the planet), then the cost of renewable energy without subsidies would be cheaper than fossil fuels, then the market will take care of the rest.

The cost to individuals (initially) in higher energy costs is then spread over the entire population and so becomes minimal, and eventually energy costs would become cheaper because the inputs such as solar and wind are free. The only losers would be fossil fuel companies that don't re-invest into low-carbon technologies.

Pumped hydro systems are a well-known technology that can easily be built today to store energy from intermittent renewable energy sources, for release as base-load power. Large battery systems are also getting cheaper (e.g. Tesla).

Business investment in new coal-fired power plants has dried up, because the bean-counters know they're a bad investment. The only way to keep building these is for governments to pay for them, which is fine if you want a socialist economy.

Not gonna unpack this except for one tiny thing. You seem to think that a person's "lifestyle changes" can be uncoupled from their use of energy. I would contend that at the most basic level our lifestyle choices are inherently choices about energy. From the house we live in, to the car we drive, and to the amenities we choose to treat ourselves, it all entails the purchase and use of energy. To say blandly "there needs to be changes to the economy" is simply wishful thinking. People need to be offered reasonable choices and educated about those choices. The Free Market is really good at things like that.

 

[fincoder]

I would contend that at the most basic level our lifestyle choices are inherently choices about energy. From the house we live in, to the car we drive, and to the amenities we choose to treat ourselves, it all entails the purchase and use of energy.

I agree with these statements. Ordinary people are already doing these things to save money. In many cases incomes have stagnated while living expenses have increased so there are plenty of incentives to save energy. That's why most states and nations are easily reaching their carbon reduction targets, even without much political will (that's certainly the case in Australia where I live).

Any further energy efficiency lifestyle changes aren't going to reduce carbon emissions enough to go anywhere near halting climate change.

To say blandly "there needs to be changes to the economy" is simply wishful thinking

Why is it merely wishful thinking that the true cost of fossil fuels be reflected in energy prices? Sounds like the normal situation for other market sectors. Being a small business owner I don't get any subsidies, and I don't get to push any costs out to future generations. It's not a radical change. Apart from spreading the impact over all energy users as I mentioned above, if the extra cost became government revenue (e.g. a carbon tax) then the lowest income people can be compensated using some of those funds. I'm talking about just tweaks to the economy as a preemptive measure before climate change produces catastrophic shocks to the economy and to peoples lives.

 

[Galdorf]

lol it is the middle of summer i looked at temps 12C overnight what the hell had to close windows and throw another blanket on my bed this is one really weird summer.
only plus do not need AC on so i will be saving on power bill.

 

[seedubya]

lol it is the middle of summer i looked at temps 12C overnight what the hell had to close windows and throw another blanket on my bed this is one really weird summer.
only plus do not need AC on so i will be saving on power bill.

I'm beginning to think that you're a really clever troll, that says this stuff just to get the debate going.

 

[Galdorf]

I'm beginning to think that you're a really clever troll, that says this stuff just to get the debate going.

check environment canada website it has lows marked.
https://weather.gc.ca/city/pages/on-40_metric_e.html
https://weather.gc.ca/city/pages/on-40_metric_e.html
its unusual for temps to be so low at night usually it is avg 18-20 . atm its 11C that is spring temps around here my guess it is because of the solar min it has been unusually cold this summer use to seeing high 20`s to low 30`s during the daytime not 11-13.

 

[Diggs]

I'm beginning to think that you're a really clever troll, that says this stuff just to get the debate going.

Naaa - no trolling. It was 55° F last night here in Wisconsin - Pffft! Cool and rainy again this summer. I don't know if it's even made it into the 90s here yet and this is the peak time for summer heat. We used to have weeks of it in the 90s and I even remember 100s for a few days. I got my floating lawn chair, floating cooler and my water wings ready but it just won't get hot around here.

 

[fencepost]

You guys are confusing weather and localized conditions with global trends.

 

[Diggs]

You guys are confusing weather and localized conditions with global trends.

Oh! I'm not denying or even questioning global warming. Just showing how there are contrary microcosms of weather. I don't know the phenomena that gives us this cooler wetter weather when other parts of the country are setting records but it's been a continuing trend.

Just as the western forest fires tends to bring us wetter weather due to particulate seeding in the upper atmosphere (or so I've read). I'm sure there's a mechanism that explains why we are getting our cooler weather.

 

[AML]

In recent years, record-breaking cold weather has made some wonder if global warming is actually happening. "First, we need to understand the difference between 'weather' and 'climate,'" Weather is atmospheric activity over a short time period, like a cold winter snap or a hot spell. Climate is the "average weather," meaning the sum of weather events averaged over decades, centuries or even thousands of years.

Global warming is related to climate and is a global phenomenon. Even though there are regional cold snaps (weather), the average global temperature (climate) continues to increase even during different regions' winter months.

Surprisingly, global warming can actually cause unusually cold weather. One of the key atmospheric features of climate is that it is affected by warming in air circulation patterns, including the jet stream, which is like a river of wind high above in the atmosphere. "If you perturb the jet stream in the right way, it migrates south, bringing with it cold, Arctic air, "This is precisely why you can get a cold snap in the short term, and also why a given winter in North America might be colder than average, even during a long-term trend of global warming."

 

[Galdorf]

Space weather also has an effect on global climate this year has seen some of the highest levels of solar wind ever recorded.
Also there has been 5 major ice ages in the past scientist still don't know what caused them and why they stopped they also last a very long time some scientist say we are due for another one soon but high CO2 levels may stop that from happening.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Honestly, I'm not a climatologist so I'm not going to get into the argument of Anthropomorphic Climate Change being real or not.

I just would like to be able to drive to work in a vehicle that doesn't use the air I breathe as a toxic waste dump...

Oh wait, scratch my first point... because my UPS tells me I spent $16.89 in power for the last 30 days to run my server, desktop, LED light on my desk, and bench repair equipment. This money was spent on 140.75 kWh, which thanks to AZ's heavily coal dependent power grid put 157.63lbs of CO2 into the air. 1 lb of CO2 gas at 1 atmosphere is about 2'1" cubed... That's a bit more than 328 cubic feet of crap in the air just to run my electronics so I can feed my kids for one month.

I put a cubic football field of crap in the air a month just for my computers!

I certainly don't remove 150lbs of yard waste from my yard in the month...

Of course the other side of this argument is a series of economy breaking measures that won't save us in the end anyway, because as this conversation has rightly discovered already the baseline issues is over population. And I don't see people giving up their reproductive rights anytime soon.

 

[fincoder]

the baseline issues is over population

Population means people. Yes people are the problem, hence anthropogenic climate change.

I don't see people giving up their reproductive rights anytime soon.

Halting the global population growth actually wouldn't help much in the short and medium term anyway. Talking about 'over population' isn't productive as nobody would want to actively reduce the population (i.e. kill people). The only solutions that are fast enough involve restructuring the economy around low emission energy sources.

 

[Computer Bloke]

...the argument of Anthropomorphic Climate Change...

Yes people are the problem, hence anthropomorphic climate change.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Try anthropogenic instead - you'll have more credibility.