Getting a lot of business from big box store blunders

[Galdorf]

Wow quite a few customers show up at my store after big box store messes up their machine or it ends up not working when they get it back.

What bothers me is they don't make backup images when working on customers drive so many times i had to do a data recovery.

Even other computer stores in the area one time this guy shows up he had a business computer that had custom software the original cd was unreadable his motherboard had blown caps they changed the motherboard and hard drive, he had the original hard drive.

The tech in the other store did not know of a universal restore(full bare metal backup)?, when i backup a customers hard drive and change the motherboard i always do a universal restore back to new drive or original drive it has never failed once used it a few hundred times.

So i do an image and universal restore and he had his original OS with all programs and data intact, i now have him as a customer and get quite a bit of business from them.

 

[TampaBayTech]

I've actually had something similar happen recently. There is a certain big-box store that likes to offer a "free setup" when a new PC is purchased and this frustrates people to no end when they have to wait in line forever for their "free setup." I've had two customers this month contact me after basically dumping their new PC in line at the store and calling me instead.

The scary thing is that both customers were purchasing a new computer because their old one had something simple wrong with it that was easily fixed. One PC had a bad NIC card and the other was just chock full of bloatware and in need of more RAM.

I find that more and more people want to just throw their computer away and buy a new one when something stops working properly on it. Anybody else come across this scenario?

 

[Appleby]

What amazes me more is the price people are willing to pay for this crappy service that takes forever and only causes more problems. They don't even seem to try and get a refund. I couldn't sleep at night if I charged what these big box stores often charge and I don't think anyone would pay that price.....but they don't mind doing it in the stores.

 

[frenchscottie]

Back up

Hi all, i've just joined this forum after discovering the site.

Galdarf - What software do you use for your "universal restore(full bare metal backup"

I take it that you clone the drive.?

Thanks in advance.

 

[iisjman07]

What software do you use for your "universal restore"

It's an Acronis product

 

[glricht]

The scary thing is that both customers were purchasing a new computer because their old one had something simple wrong with it that was easily fixed. One PC had a bad NIC card and the other was just chock full of bloatware and in need of more RAM.

I find that more and more people want to just throw their computer away and buy a new one when something stops working properly on it. Anybody else come across this scenario?

I see this more often than one would think.

I'll get a call to setup a customer's new PC, go there and do all the normal things. Near the end, I'll ask what they're going to do with their old PC. Often they say they're going to just throw it away, so I'll say I'll take it, strip it for parts and ensure the HD is wiped before it's discarded.

But when I get it back to the shop, I often find that a cleanup or N&P (and maybe some RAM) results in a good-as-new PC!

Just last week, BB convinced a customer to buy a new PC, and after all was said and done, I ended up bringing back an HP, Pent 4 3.0GHz, 1GB ram, 250GB HD with XP MCE - two hours and a simple system recovery later, the PC works just great! Now to figure out what I'm going to do with it!

 

[Peaceful]

Well when you figure in BB's "advanced diagnostic and repair" charge of $369, no surprise they opt for a new unit. I think Staples' charge to send to Blue Raven for similar service is something like $399.

 

[TampaBayTech]

Well when you figure in BB's "advanced diagnostic and repair" charge of $369, no surprise they opt for a new unit. I think Staples' charge to send to Blue Raven for similar service is something like $399.

I really need to price shop them a bit more just for my own personal reference. What the heck does the "advanced diagnostic and repair" get you anyway for such a large price?

 

[techguyforyou]

@TampaBay Tech

From speaking with people who used to work for Geek Squad and such these guys don't do anything more than most techs do for a more reasonable price. Just like alot of them don't know how to manually clean up viruses and other easy tasks like that.

In the end stuff like this will just turn off alot of people and they'll come flocking to us.

 

[Kitos]

I've had this happen a lot as well, these big box stores really do end up giving all pc techs a bad name.

 

[Appletax]

Wow quite a few customers show up at my store after big box store messes up their machine or it ends up not working when they get it back.

What bothers me is they don't make backup images when working on customers drive so many times i had to do a data recovery.

Even other computer stores in the area one time this guy shows up he had a business computer that had custom software the original cd was unreadable his motherboard had blown caps they changed the motherboard and hard drive, he had the original hard drive.

The tech in the other store did not know of a universal restore(full bare metal backup)?, when i backup a customers hard drive and change the motherboard i always do a universal restore back to new drive or original drive it has never failed once used it a few hundred times.

So i do an image and universal restore and he had his original OS with all programs and data intact, i now have him as a customer and get quite a bit of business from them.

I've never done an image backup of a customer's computer because I've never felt the need to do it.
Have I ever lost data? Nope
I've yet to do anything that I felt would potentially destroy data.... I don't even know HOW I could lose their data.
I would imagine that the master file table would have to go bad to lose track of the files or the partition would have to go bad,
which I highly doubt I would cause this to happen.


Also, Acronis is what offers Universal Restore. I have it and have never used it because I haven't felt
the need too. So, why should the big box stores do it either? It takes time and is usually unnecessary.


For mobo replacement you have to swap out the motherboard for the exact same brand/model otherwise
it'll be considered a brand new computer and the OEM Windows license won't work. So, I don't see why
you'd do a Universal Restore when you should be able to simply plug the hard drive in and all should be
ready to rock and roll.

Also, when I replace a HDD that's going bad (e.g. bad sectors) I never do an image. I prefer manually backing up (or using Fab's Autobackup)
the user's data so that I can install the new HDD with a nice, clean, fresh copy of Windows. This ensures that the system will run like new.


If I'm wrong in any way, please let me know :O

 

[RedFoxComp]

Big Box stores are designed to squeeze the maximum amount of money from a client. I found this recently:

http://ixnotes.wordpress.com/2009/09/09/staples-virus-removal-fraud/

Basically, even if a big box store technician has the skills to manually remove malware they are not permitted to. They are to follow operating procedures which does not extend past doing scans with approved software.

The bean counters decided that if they can't easily remove it with a scan, they can make more money charging customers for a backup, restore or nuke and pave, and then charge to reinstall all their software. From there the customer can enjoy the hours reinstalling and reconfiguring years of settings at home.

I find this similar to people who take their car to Midas or other big chains. They don't realize that there is no such thing as customer service and that the procedures are set up to squeeze the maximum amount of money from a customer. Mechanics with no reputation to preserve are paid bonuses to put parts on and offer services that aren't really needed.

 

[Hercomputers]

People who take their computers to places as Geek Squad, Staples (as I've seen) is because either they have no one to go to which means they don't know any better. When they wind up getting overcharged for their repair and they find out that their problem was never fixed, that's where we come in.

I've had customers waste money on both Geek Squad and Staples and I was more than happy to assist them. That's what we want, isn't it?

 

[ATTech]

I've never done an image backup of a customer's computer because I've never felt the need to do it.
Have I ever lost data? Nope

Then you either haven't been in business very long or are a very luck man. It's fine to use a good backup program, but that's not going to prevent a client from forgetting to tell you about some obscure file that is essential to their life, and blaming you for not asking about it. It's quite common for a client to become upset with you, even if you aren't the one to blame.

I've yet to do anything that I felt would potentially destroy data.... I don't even know HOW I could lose their data.

You're tired, you've been working on more than one machine and conviently forgot that the hard drive you have plugged in wasn't the one that needed the low level format. Accidents happen.

Also, Acronis is what offers Universal Restore. I have it and have never used it because I haven't felt
the need too. So, why should the big box stores do it either? It takes time and is usually unnecessary.

Restoring an image is so much faster than installed fresh from CD and following up with programs, drivers and updates. It can also be automated, leaving you with much less time worked on it.

For mobo replacement you have to swap out the motherboard for the exact same brand/model otherwise
it'll be considered a brand new computer and the OEM Windows license won't work. So, I don't see why
you'd do a Universal Restore when you should be able to simply plug the hard drive in and all should be
ready to rock and roll.

Not everyone has OEM licenses, and as I noted before, universal imaging can be used for reimaging machines, rather than reinstalling them.

Also, when I replace a HDD that's going bad (e.g. bad sectors) I never do an image. I prefer manually backing up (or using Fab's Autobackup)
the user's data so that I can install the new HDD with a nice, clean, fresh copy of Windows. This ensures that the system will run like new.

Do you install all the programs that they had previously as well? I'm sure there are situations where it's not that major, but many a time I find myself in a situation where a restore is not possible because of some obscure program they have installed in which neither of us any idea where it came from, just that it's a necessity. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one to argue against restores, in fact, I've argued for them in a good deal of situations, but I've found that a good amount of people (especially lawyers) get up in arms about the slightest thing being different.

 

[Appletax]

@ATTech


I've been in business since December 2009 and I've only worked on 20 systems so far.


Creating an image for every PC regardless of the work I perform on it seems like a waist of time
because I only work on 1 PC at a time (2 if I'm lucky) so the odds of me making the mistake of
deleting a user's data is pretty slim.

I admit, I haven't created a backup image, ever. I have the tools and I've checked out how to use them
(e.g. Acronis: create a boot CD to pull down the image from an ext. hard drive).
And my biggest worry is that imaging will take a long, long time to copy over a few 100 GB
How long does it normally take?



What if a user had 2 TB of data and 90% was videos? Would you back all that up?
That would take a long long time. It'd only be worth it if I charged more for the service?

How long will you hold onto this data?


Do you recommend creating an image from a hard drive with bad sectors?
Would that cause corrupted files to come over and cause stability issues?

 

[ATTech]

@ATTech


I've been in business since December 2009 and I've only worked on 20 systems so far.
I've yet to work on a system that had a lot of important data on it.

Creating an image for every PC regardless of the work I perform on it seems like a waist of time
because I only work on 1 PC at a time (2 if I'm lucky) so the odds of me making the mistake of
deleting a user's data is pretty slim.

What if a user had 2 TB of data and 90% was videos? Would you back all that up?
That would take a long long time. It'd only be worth it if I charged more for the service.



Do you recommend creating an image from a hard drive with bad sectors?
Would that cause corrupted files to come over and cause stability issues?

It takes 15 seconds for me to boot up a scripted image backup. Sure, the backup may take a while, and If we're dealing with a lot of data, I'll talk with the customer first before dedicating 12 hours to backup, but that's not any extra time I'm working on the system. It's just sitting there backing up. I didn't say every situation warrants an image before even touching the system. Occasionally, I'll get the you can restore it if you need to, there nothing on there and I'll skip the backup, but I find myself more often in the situation where there is a light amount of important data, and it's not a simple install these applications problem.

Regarding time, it's case-by-case, but I typically don't hold onto it for more than 30 days. If I screw up and miss a file, I'll usual be hearing about it the next day.

My images are file-by-file, not sector-by-sector, so I usually run into errors while I'm imaging if there are bad sectors.

 

[Appletax]

It takes 15 seconds for me to boot up a scripted image backup. Sure, the backup may take a while, and If we're dealing with a lot of data, I'll talk with the customer first before dedicating 12 hours to backup, but that's not any extra time I'm working on the system. It's just sitting there backing up. I didn't say every situation warrants an image before even touching the system. Occasionally, I'll get the you can restore it if you need to, there nothing on there and I'll skip the backup, but I find myself more often in the situation where there is a light amount of important data, and it's not a simple install these applications problem.

How much hard drive space to you have available for images?


Do you have a system dedicated to just doing images? What do you
do if you need to do multiple images at once?


I see images as something I should definitely do when a lot of important data is at risk and
the service I'm going to perform on it could jeopardize it.

I would be less inclined to do an image with computer's that have barely anything on them (which I come across a lot)
and the service I'm going to perform is nothing too major that would possibly cause deletion/corruption of data.
All depends on the situation.

My images are file-by-file, not sector-by-sector, so I usually run into errors while I'm
imaging if there are bad sectors.

What kind of errors? The kind that prevent you from creating an image?
I have tried backing up a partition once, but it failed due to errors
cause by a hard drive with bad sectors.

 

[ATTech]

How much hard drive space to you have available for images?

1 Ter. I don't work on too many machines, so I've found this to be sufficient. And again, if it's something with 1 TB of video files, I'll take to the client first.

Do you have a system dedicated to just doing images? What do you
do if you need to do multiple images at once?

Yes, I have an image server that I use to:

1. Create and manage WinPE images.
2. Store backup information such as images, MBRs, software lists or USMT backups.
3. PXE boot WinPE Images.

The Backups are scripted to store any computer's backup information in a folder named with their MAC address (LAN since it's PXE booted). I have multiple LAN connections, so I can image two machines without a problem, it just slows down the local subnet. Luckily I don't do much downloading on the shop subnet.

I see images as something I should definitely do when a lot of important data is at risk and
the service I'm going to perform on it could jeopardize it.

I would be less inclined to do an image with computer's that have barely anything on them (which I come across a lot)
and the service I'm going to perform is nothing too major that would possibly cause deletion/corruption of data.
All depends on the situation.

I agree, not everything needs an image, but I tend to teeter on the safe side when It comes to making that decision.

What kind of errors? The kind that prevent you from creating an image?
I have tried backing up a partition once, but it failed due to errors
cause by a hard drive with bad sectors.

Yeah basically, the imaging software will error out, at that point my actions would depend on the situation.

 

[glricht]

If I'm doing something that could potentially impact a customer's data or his programs, I always image the HD before I start. I never want to be in a position where something has gone wrong and I have no way to go back to square one.

I'll boot up Acronis stand-alone on the customer's PC and image the HD to an external 1TB HD. Yeah, it can sometimes take a while depending on the amount of data, but that backup has saved my behind a couple of times over the years.

(I usually keep the image on the external HD until the HD fills up and I start deleting -- oldest first -- to make room.)

 

[Appletax]

I'll boot up Acronis stand-alone on the customer's PC and image the HD to an external 1TB HD. Yeah, it can sometimes take a while depending on the amount of data, but that backup has saved my behind a couple of times over the years.[/I]

All I have right now is my 500 GB ext. HDD. I will have to get a desktop 2 TB hard drive (use for images + extra fault tolerance of my own data).

(I usually keep the image on the external HD until the HD fills up and I start deleting -- oldest first -- to make room.)

That's a good idea. The HDD will last longer from less read/write from the same location over and over again.