Fed up with Vista

[gunslinger]

Could not have said it better JohnR. I'm glad there is still some people here with common sense.

"As an experienced computer tech do you realize how wrong that is?"

As an experienced computer tech I know this to be true, its simple logic. If everything is running fine on my system and I add a program and my computer starts to malfunction the logical thing to do is to remove the offending program and see if things get better, if all the problems go away I know that program is unstable and is causing issues. I don't go change everything on my system and buy all new hardware to accommodate that one program. I find a stable program that does the same job. Its just common sense.

 

[NWPhotog]

What's so wrong about "everything worked before Vista. Vista adds no desirable features. Everything went to **** with Vista. Removing Vista fixed all the problems" being the train of logic you use to reach the conclusion "installing Vista is bad"?

It's a slow OS with compatibility problems, and no new features that justify the overhead and make it worth dealing with the compatibility. Forget if it's MS' fault or not - regardless of whose fault it is that Vista is bloated, slow, and has compatibility issues with everything, the fact remains that it is these things, and so there's still no compelling reason to upgrade, at all.

I am not even talking about Vista when I say that. I am talking about the theory behind what he is describing. My point is if something is flawed and adding something else that is 100% functional makes it apparent and you blame the fully functional item for the problem you are making a mistake. You need to find the real issue and cause. As previously pointed out bad drivers for third party HW has almost zero to do with MS. I mean if you are going to hate MS do it for the valid reasons not other companies screw ups.

 

[gunslinger]

Sorry, after listening to your evidence it seems totally anecdotal. Many people love to hate MS and that seems the real basis for most of the complaints. I worked for HP at the time and a year after XPs release we didn't have drivers for many HP products? Was that MS's fault? Not in my opinion.

Totally anecdotal? What kind of proof do you need? Greggh said they had feed back from 5,100 people about Vista and only one likes it. Over 900 IT pros. and about 860 said they wont go to Vista due to stability issues. I have had dozens of customers come to me begging to go back to XP. I'm not sure what kind of proof you need. As far as hating Microsoft goes, I don't hate Microsoft. I have used Windows all the way back to 3.1. I think they dropped the ball on a a few things, like Windows ME and Vista.

 

[gunslinger]

I am not even talking about Vista when I say that. I am talking about the theory behind what he is describing. My point is if something is flawed and adding something else that is 100% functional makes it apparent and you blame the fully functional item for the problem you are making a mistake. You need to find the real issue and cause. As previously pointed out bad drivers for third party HW has almost zero to do with MS. I mean if you are going to hate MS do it for the valid reasons not other companies screw ups.

So what you are saying is that if Vista wont work on my system then my computer and my other software is flawed even though XP works just fine? Love that logic.
So other companies made Vista the bloated slow resource hog that it is?
Also by you saying that Vista is 100% functional I think you rendered null and void any future arguments you may have had about it.

 

[Bryce W]

So what you are saying is that if Vista wont work on my system then my computer and my other software is flawed even though XP works just fine? Love that logic.

The drivers for your hardware was designed for XP and the software was designed for XP. So you XP runs great and is nice and stable.

In most cases, Hardware drivers for Vista are largely untested or simply ported from the XP version making Vista unstable.

Those who are pro-vista here used it on modern hardware, where the hardware was created AFTER the release of Vista and thus designed FOR Vista.

Other than those few Vista issues I posted a few posts ago (network/file copying slowness) I am yet to see an issue that couldnt be caused by a bad driver or incompatable software.

 

[NWPhotog]

What's so wrong about "everything worked before Vista. Vista adds no desirable features. Everything went to **** with Vista. Removing Vista fixed all the problems" being the train of logic you use to reach the conclusion "installing Vista is bad"?

It's a slow OS with compatibility problems, and no new features that justify the overhead and make it worth dealing with the compatibility. Forget if it's MS' fault or not - regardless of whose fault it is that Vista is bloated, slow, and has compatibility issues with everything, the fact remains that it is these things, and so there's still no compelling reason to upgrade, at all.

Hi John

The problem is the methodology behind the reasoning is faulty. If a Tech researches the problem and there is a bug or other error in Vista causing the issue then, yes, Vista is the problem. If, on the other hand, incompatible HW, incorrect driver, or other culprit is causing the issue it is counter productive to blame it on Vista.

As to the speed issue I am told that is a bit more complicated. Another Tech who has used it extensively says it is faster if you are using very up to date HW especially if you are running Office2007. I haven't used it enough to verify that for myself but the Tech I am talking about I thoroughly trust.

Vista has its good points and bad points. I remember XP being pretty shoddy for over 1 year from date of release. It remains to be seen in my opinion if Vista will be more like XP or ME.

 

[NWPhotog]

Could not have said it better JohnR. I'm glad there is still some people here with common sense.

"As an experienced computer tech do you realize how wrong that is?"

As an experienced computer tech I know this to be true, its simple logic. If everything is running fine on my system and I add a program and my computer starts to malfunction the logical thing to do is to remove the offending program and see if things get better, if all the problems go away I know that program is unstable and is causing issues. I don't go change everything on my system and buy all new hardware to accommodate that one program. I find a stable program that does the same job. Its just common sense.

The problem is simple logic is often wrong. Basing decisions on assumptions and false information leads to simplistic answers that cost Techs and their customers money. It is better to understand the actual issues and causes and solve the problem. Just my take on it. Every one has to do what is right for them.

 

[NWPhotog]

Totally anecdotal? What kind of proof do you need? Greggh said they had feed back from 5,100 people about Vista and only one likes it. Over 900 IT pros. and about 860 said they wont go to Vista due to stability issues. I have had dozens of customers come to me begging to go back to XP. I'm not sure what kind of proof you need. As far as hating Microsoft goes, I don't hate Microsoft. I have used Windows all the way back to 3.1. I think they dropped the ball on a a few things, like Windows ME and Vista.

1 out of 5100 people likes Vista over XP? Do you understand how impossible that statistic is? As to the IT pros, of course they are going to chose a proven OS that does what they need over an unproven new release. Let someone be on the bleeding edge. Not that it proves anything but I have been working with a Nation-wide IT company that is rolling out Vista to all their newer computers and all newly released work stations. I must say if I were them I would wait a while before doing so.

 

[NWPhotog]

So what you are saying is that if Vista wont work on my system then my computer and my other software is flawed even though XP works just fine? Love that logic.
So other companies made Vista the bloated slow resource hog that it is?
Also by you saying that Vista is 100% functional I think you rendered null and void any future arguments you may have had about it.

I never said Vista was 100% functional although that probably is an accurate statement. I specifically noted I was talking about the faulty methodology behind your reasoning. Honestly "Gunslinger" you are 100% entitled to your opinion and so are those that disagree with you.

 

[Bryce W]

Lets not forget that XP went though the exact same growing pains. I remember a time when Windows 98 (as unstable as it is) was MORE stable than the early XP versions. It took me a few years before I converted to XP, for the exact same reasons you have mentioned Gunslinger.

Gunslinger, I totally see where you are at and why you are so against Vista. I wouldnt recommend it to my clients either. However, I see its potential to be a good OS in time, just like XP.

 

[gunslinger]

Ok first off I will address the Drivers and 3rd party apps issue posed by Bryce. I respect your
opinion, and in a lot of the issues I and many others have had with Vista I would say you are correct. But not all of Vistas issues can be blamed on 3rd party apps and old hardware. I have used 3 different versions of Vista in the past 10-11 months and none have impressed me with their reliability, although the 32 bit is much better than the 64 bit.
Now as for you "NWPhotog" I guess you are calling Greggh a lier because these figures are from him. "1 out of 5100 people likes Vista over XP? Do you understand how impossible that statistic is?" thats what the man said and I have no reason to doubt him.
Vista adds no desirable features and no one has been able to tell me what it can do that XP can not do. So, why switch to Vista? My point has been from the start that " if it aint broke, don't fix it" You gain nothing by going to vista other than incompatibility issues.
I too remember XP being pretty shoddy for over 1 year from date of release and I did not go out and recommend it to everyone until long after SP1.

 

[gunslinger]

I agree Bryce, Vista has the potential to be a good OS, but it needs time to grow. At this point I think one would be foolish to recommend people make the switch. Lack of driver support, software incompatibility, and other issues make the switch from a very stable OS stupid no mater what logic you use.

 

[NWPhotog]

Now as for you "NWPhotog" I guess you are calling Greggh a lier because these figures are from him. "1 out of 5100 people likes Vista over XP? Do you understand how impossible that statistic is?" thats what the man said and I have no reason to doubt him.

Gunslinger

I am calling no one a liar. I am saying even if Vista was the equivalent of DOS 1.0 more than 1 person out of 5100 would prefer it. Different people like different things and it is very easy to see that data result is impossible. Thanks for softening your viewpoint in view of others positive experience with Vista.

 

[gunslinger]

You are saying that the facts presented by him are false, here in the south thats the equivalent of calling someone a lier, but I guess thats just here.

 

[dipper]

Vista adds no desirable features and no one has been able to tell me what it can do that XP can not do. So, why switch to Vista? My point has been from the start that " if it aint broke, don't fix it"

So why are you using XP rather than say Windows 2000?

Many people are also happy to still use Windows 98, I suppose you still sell Windows 98 to these people too?

 

[NWPhotog]

You are saying that the facts presented by him are false, here in the south thats the equivalent of calling someone a lier, but I guess thats just here.

I know what a Liar is but never heard of a Lier? Is there a reason you are so antagonistic, can't stand the idea of someone having a different opinion, and even, gasp, them being right?! Honestly with your nick, logo and attitude Gun you are totally transparent.

 

[dipper]

Is there a reason you are so antagonistic, can't stand the idea of someone having a different opinion, and even, gasp, them being right?! Honestly with your nick, logo and attitude Gun you are totally transparent.

He definitely can't stand someone having a different opinion to himself.

As soon as I mentioned I liked Vista and that Vista has its place along with XP I was howled down.

As far as I could make out in his opinion:
- it was impossible for me to have a fully functional Vista machine as he had never seen one.
- there is no such thing as a happy Vista users.
- everything is Vista / Microsofts fault.

 

[gunslinger]

" So why are you using XP rather than say Windows 2000?
Many people are also happy to still use Windows 98, I suppose you still sell Windows 98 to these people too?"
I think Xp was a major upgrade from 98, and I don't think that can be compared to XP vs. Vista.


NWPhotog

Yep, I had a misspell. I don't think that makes my point less valid. There is nothing wrong with someone having a different opinion, even if they are wrong. As far as me being "totally transparent" I'm not sure what you mean. I have been using the gunlinger name for my email for years and got the nickname from my former line of work in security and my training. As for my avatar, I have always liked the punisher comic books and thought it looked cool. Is there a reason why you are attacking my character?
I think I understand, if you can't win an argument or debate with facts, attack the other guy on a personal level. Nice try but I don't have to resort to that.

 

[gunslinger]

He definitely can't stand someone having a different opinion to himself.

As soon as I mentioned I liked Vista and that Vista has its place along with XP I was howled down.

As far as I could make out in his opinion:
- it was impossible for me to have a fully functional Vista machine as he had never seen one.
- there is no such thing as a happy Vista users.
- everything is Vista / Microsofts fault.

Like I said you can have any opinion you want even if its disproven with facts. I guess fully functional Vista machine is a subjective term.
I never said there is no such thing as a happy Vista user, but I have yet to meet one in person.
" Everything is Microsofts fault " nope, but Vista is.

 

[dipper]

" So why are you using XP rather than say Windows 2000?
Many people are also happy to still use Windows 98, I suppose you still sell Windows 98 to these people too?"
I think Xp was a major upgrade from 98, and I don't think that can be compared to XP vs. Vista.

I agree but your words were "if it aint broke, don't fix it" and for some people 98 is fine and in their opinion isn't broken. So going by that statment you would still recommend 98!