Fed up with Vista

[JohnR]

I've found Vista's reliability to be heavily hardware-dependent.

Put another way, I've found it's hardware support to be severely lacking. On some configurations, it will work exactly as designed - slowly, with all kinds of nonintuitive interface choices and a number of "helpful" annoyances, and on others, it will do all that *and* crash regularly, kill perfectly good programs, and corrupt HDD contents. On machines (even "certified vista-compatible" machines) where it's not going to work, it's perfectly capable of destroying your data and it nukes itself into inoperability.

If it's going to work, though, it tends to work as reliably as version 1.0 of any brand-new Microsoft OS ever has, and you're just stuck with it squandering massive resources and with program interfaces designed by drunken rhesus monkeys.

 

[gunslinger]

Thanks JohnR I'm glad you did'nt drink the same coolaid dipper did....lol. As far as not being able to hold Microsoft responsible for 3rd party apps not working, I'm not but the fact is they don't and its one more strike aginst them either way. Most people who go buy a computer off the shelf are not tech savy. They don't know that they have to download the latest patches and drivers even though it says it with work on the box. Most people don't even know what the hell a driver is. They want to be able to plug in their printer and it just work, or insert a disk and the program just work. As for Microsoft causing data loss being news......yeah right! Thats to stupid to even comment on.

 

[gunslinger]

Oh, and having been working on customers Vista machines regularly sense feb. this year. 3-5 Vista computers a week and I have not had one person say a positive thing about Vista. They all reflect the comments I have made here, and most want to return to XP. It should not take a service pack or two before the masses have a functional OS. I went through windows 95, 98, 98SE, ME, 2000, and XP pre service pack, and I can say without a doubt the only one that comes close to Vista is ME and we all know what happend to it.

 

[greggh]

Oh, and having been working on customers Vista machines regularly sense feb. this year. 3-5 Vista computers a week and I have not had one person say a positive thing about Vista. They all reflect the comments I have made here, and most want to return to XP. It should not take a service pack or two before the masses have a functional OS. I went through windows 95, 98, 98SE, ME, 2000, and XP pre service pack, and I can say without a doubt the only one that comes close to Vista is ME and we all know what happend to it.

Of every customer we have feedback from about vista I have only seen one positive peice of feedback. Current feedback levels are somewhere right around 5100 now too. A lot of feedback, a lot of face to face time with customers. Nearly unanimous: vista sucks.

We can only hope that SP1 and SP2 do for vista what they did for XP. XPSP2 with all the patches and some basic fixes in place is a great desktop os for the general public. I still prefer linux and os x for their more secure unix-like underpinnings, but XPSP2 is finally (after 7 years?,) a decent operating system.

 

[dipper]

Most people who go buy a computer off the shelf are not tech savy. They don't know that they have to download the latest patches and drivers even though it says it with work on the box. Most people don't even know what the hell a driver is.

But you presumably are a tech and know such things but you still go mouthing off against Vista when the problems you have are more than likely caused by a third party. BTW Did you upgrade the drivers, download patches on the applications you had issues with? Or did you even contact the companies support?

They want to be able to plug in their printer and it just work, or insert a disk and the program just work.

If you actually work as a tech you will know that this is 100% impossible even with XP. People being people and technology being technology makes things like this hard. It isn't helped with companies like Microsoft though sprouting on about how this is all possible though.

As for Microsoft causing data loss being news......yeah right! Thats to stupid to even comment on.

So you make a comment with nothing to back it up with! Come on this is getting to be school yard type of stuff.

I agree Vista is not perfect but when you sprout off stuff when it looks like you haven't even made the basic steps to rectify them it makes you look stupid.

Also why are companies releasing Vista only machines (like has been mentioned in this thread)? If Vista is as bad as you make it look their tech support lines would be clogged up and a big stink made with all this so called data lost.

 

[dipper]

Of every customer we have feedback from about vista I have only seen one positive peice of feedback. Current feedback levels are somewhere right around 5100 now too. A lot of feedback, a lot of face to face time with customers. Nearly unanimous: vista sucks.

My own experience initially very similar as people weren't used to change, had issues with old incompatible hw, drivers weren't available and or s/w compatibility probs.

Recently though I have seen people's attitude changing both in real life and in online forums.

 

[greggh]

Also why are companies releasing Vista only machines (like has been mentioned in this thread)? If Vista is as bad as you make it look their tech support lines would be clogged up and a big stink made with all this so called data lost.

Well it bad, maybe not as bad with the data loss, but its still horrible. As for why they build Vista machines, they get huge cuts from Microsoft in the price and huge marketing incentives. I have been to 3 Microsoft events for our company and they have tried each time, with bigger bribes, to get me to start pushing Vista. Last time I think they finally gave up on the "free gifts" and cheaper Vista licenses ploy. They just had me sit down with a few Microsoft employees and a couple other guys in this area in my same job. We all had a big discussion and they said basically "all of that is fixed in SP1, when its finally released we will meet again and try to show you why Vista is the way you should go!"

Some of the "gifts" were nice though. A really nice laptop bag (messenger bag.) I use that now, I still dont push Vista.

 

[greggh]

My own experience initially very similar as people weren't used to change, had issues with old incompatible hw, drivers weren't available and or s/w compatibility probs.

Recently though I have seen people's attitude changing both in real life and in online forums.

Did you drink the koolaid at that last microsoft event?

 

[dipper]

As for why they build Vista machines, they get huge cuts from Microsoft in the price and huge marketing incentives. I.

Yes to a point but the big manufacturers know that with the correct drivers (which they control for their machines) that Vista is far from the crap that some people are trying to make it out to be.

It is the people that have older machines, put Vista on and then complain that this or that doesn't work when they should have checked things out properly before they upgraded. Or those that buy the cheapest and / or the system builders that sell crap without proper testing beforehand.

 

[dipper]

Did you drink the koolaid at that last microsoft event?

Well here are some online threads in forums where people are recommending Vista:
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=720057
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=676959

Yes it is only one forum but people are out their recommending Vista. Yes Vista has problems but not everyone is experiencing these problems.

I think the ones drinking coolaid are the so called techs on here that cannot get a Vista running properly.

BTW I find it shocking that there are techs out there who do not have at least one machine running XP. How are these techs supposed to help end users who are using Vista when they have little experience using it themselves? And saying install XP is a stupid response!

 

[gunslinger]

It is the people that have older machines, put Vista on and then complain that this or that doesn't work when they should have checked things out properly before they upgraded. Or those that buy the cheapest and / or the system builders that sell crap without proper testing beforehand.

Oh really? I installed Vista on the system I built in February. Specs: Intel core 2 duo e6600 2.4 ghz. , 2 gigs of pc-6400 RAM , 320 gig SATA drive. It was at the time some of the best hardware that could be had. Most of the systems that I see having problems with vista are brand new or close to it and all far exceed the recommended specs for Vista.

 

[gunslinger]

[/QUOTE]
BTW I find it shocking that there are techs out there who do not have at least one machine running XP. How are these techs supposed to help end users who are using Vista when they have little experience using it themselves? And saying install XP is a stupid response![/QUOTE]


I know many techs and have never met one that did not have an XP machine.
I will still run Vista on my virtual machine, but I will not make it my OS.
Why is installing a stable platform stupid? It works, it does what its asked without fuss, the hardware demands are far less and its still supported by Microsoft why is that stupid?
I think recommending someone install something that has proven its self time and again to be unstable is irresponsible at best.

 

[breadtrk]

I've been running Vista since Beta 1 on an Asus A7N8X with generic soundcard drivers, AMD 300+ 1gb ram and have only had to reinstall when another beta version came out, I'm running the Business version from a copy I won at a launch event. So far no troubles at all. Plays NASCAR racing 2003, FreeLancer, All Flavors of MS flight Sim, CFS2 & 3, All flavors of Joint Operations, Anarchy Online, GUNSHIP! (a game from 1990), COD 4, Far Cry, Evercrack, EECH, EEAH, EECH 2 Demo, AA, Runs Office 2007, another launch event freebie, Prints to a 6 yr old Onkio printer, has an ATI x800x vid card, 2 sata 150 drives in software raid, 4 IDE drives on a PCI controller card, dual CRT monitors, Peaveys Sound patterning and analyzing software, Chief Architect, I can go on and on. Never had a crash. Couple ram induced lockups but never a BSOD.

If FolderSize ran on it, Vista would be perfect.

 

[breadtrk]

I'm not suggesting Vista to customers yet snce I don't see any improvement worth upgrading.

Office 2007 is a different story. Every Word, Outlook, Excel, or Publisher user should upgrade today. The ribbon and the mouse over effects with it are beyond amazing and useful.

 

[dipper]

Oh really? I installed Vista on the system I built in February. Specs: Intel core 2 duo e6600 2.4 ghz. , 2 gigs of pc-6400 RAM , 320 gig SATA drive. It was at the time some of the best hardware that could be had. Most of the systems that I see having problems with vista are brand new or close to it and all far exceed the recommended specs for Vista.

Having the latest CPU, m/b, RAM etc means nothing if it isn't Vista compatible and / or the drivers are crap.

 

[gunslinger]

" If you actually work as a tech you will know that this is 100% impossible even with XP "

Really? pretty much everything that I have plugged into an XP in the last 3 years has worked. Every single disk that said windows xp compatible on it has worked without fail.

 

[dipper]

I'm not suggesting Vista to customers yet snce I don't see any improvement worth upgrading.

We take it on a case by case basis. eg If the customers is running specific apps with no Vista version or Vista equivalent then XP. If the customers is happy with XP and doesn't like change then again XP. If the customers wants the latest, doesn't mind change and is prepared for possible teething problems then Vista.

Office 2007 is a different story. Every Word, Outlook, Excel, or Publisher user should upgrade today. The ribbon and the mouse over effects with it are beyond amazing and useful.

We found a lot of people didn't like it at first but once they have placed with it a bit found it was great. The only issue is people sending 2007 file formats to people with old versions - thats where the format conversion addons are great.

 

[dipper]

" If you actually work as a tech you will know that this is 100% impossible even with XP "

Really? pretty much everything that I have plugged into an XP in the last 3 years has worked. Every single disk that said windows xp compatible on it has worked without fail.

So why are you working as a tech then if everything works just fine and dandy under XP? If it did then technicians would not be needed!

 

[gunslinger]

You say that I have no facts to back up my data loss claim? I don't know one person that has not had data loss due to a crash at some point Vista or otherwise. And I never said XP was without problems, I just said its a lot better than Vista. Maybe you don't have problems with Vista, good for you but the numbers don't lie most people do.

 

[dipper]

You say that I have no facts to back up my data loss claim? I don't know one person that has not had data loss due to a crash at some point Vista or otherwise. .

I've never lost 6G of data or know of anyone who has due to a software problem (other than a virus / malware etc). Yes you can lose a file or 2 or 3 if your system crashes but nowhere near 6G, especially of different types of files.

Thats why I would like to know how you lost 6G of data??

Hardware problems yes, software no.