Desktop Form Factor

[DMC Unlimited]

We try to build every new desktop we sell. Custom builds are leagues better than anything Dell or HP can spit out, business class or otherwise. Custom Built > HP/Dell Business Class > HP/Dell Home Class. The number of hardware failures is quite low (less than 1%) and our clients love them.

Glad to hear that! I've been scoffed at by peers for still building systems, so I'm happy to know that I'm not alone in seeing the positive results it brings. The less than 1% failure rate has proven to be true for us as well. Thanks for sharing.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

...just kidding...i mean as long as its easy to work on. Little surprised to see AIOs in this thread, those models easy to work with?

Really not bad, Lenovo does a good job of making them serviceable. Takes me about a minute 30 seconds, may be a whopping 2 minutes if I'm moving slowly..to get the back off a Lenovo AIO. But like I mentioned above...really don't have to get in there. One client ordered a big fleet of them and that was a non-SSD order, so I did have a couple of the usual WD Blue spindle hard drive failures there back then about 2 years ago when WD Blues were dying like crazy. But we pretty much only do SSD Now, and I have a lot of them out there...running very well.

 

[timeshifter]

I've found the AIOs from Dell and HP to be surprisingly easy to service too (don't confuse them with iMacs - arrgghhh)

Plus, even though I'm charging by the hour I'd much rather install an AIO PC instead of a traditional desktop. Plug in power, Ethernet and a receiver for a wireless mouse and keyboard... done. A tower... plug in monitor, tower and speakers to AC. Plug in Ethernet. Pull the cables from the desktop down through to the tower, "try" to make them neat and look nice and fight that the cables are all different lengths. THEN, re-wrap the cables after you have to move all of it because they wanted it to the other side of the desk.

Also valuable in place like a veterinarian's office where towers on the floor suck in all the animal hair.

 

[DMC Unlimited]

Really not bad, Lenovo does a good job of making them serviceable.

I'm a big Lenovo fan (we sell their business class laptops almost exclusively). Several years ago Intel came out with an AIO chassis that we used for a while. It was basically a build-your-own AIO model. We built a handful of those units (some of which are still in service), but the chassis were always out of stock when we wanted them, so we moved on to the NUCs when those became a thing. Same feel as an all-in-one for the customer, but a bit more serviceable on our end.

 

[DMC Unlimited]

Also valuable in place like a veterinarian's office where towers on the floor suck in all the animal hair.

+1 for the animal hair. Sometimes I'd swear they misplaced a cat and it just died in there...

 

[timeshifter]

so we moved on to the NUCs when those became a thing. Same feel as an all-in-one for the customer, but a bit more serviceable on our end.

What does that look like? Do you use some kind of VESA mount for the NUC and "integrate" it with the screen?

 

[DMC Unlimited]

What does that look like? Do you use some kind of VESA mount for the NUC and "integrate" it with the screen?

The NUCs come with a little VESA mount bracket that you can mount on the back of the monitor if you choose. We have several in a Chiropractic office with the touchscreen monitors mounted to the wall and then the NUCs are mounted to the wall just behind the screen for easy access to ports and power button. Looks pretty cool. We can just pop the NUC off the wall if we need to service it for any reason.

 

[mikeroq]

https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/deskto.../m-series-aio/ThinkCentre-M910z/p/11TC1MZ910Z

I see one with 4gb and 500gb for 809.00. $984.60 with 8gb ram 256gb ssd and 10 pro. Which isn't too bad but it has 5-7 day time to ship.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[timeshifter]

How do you manage all the cables? Don't the NUCs have power bricks too? Got any pics of an install?

 

[sapphirescales]

Done this game for over 25 years...over 300 active biz clients, amounting to over 4,000 "nodes" out there, never had to tell anyone to wait a week for some special parts unless it was a laptop. And even then..it's like..next day...because we only sell biz grade laptops that have good warranty support and part avail.

There's no "dis-service" being done if someone doesn't do a standard shin knocker tower under the desk.
For clients that can't afford down time (and yes we have quite a few of those), things like *4 hour onsite warranty and *spare units are the smart thing here. Similar to network equipment..can't afford down time? When selling switches, sell an additional one. Or for the UTM/firewall, sell 2x units...have them setup in failover mode.

LOL. "Buy extras because they have specialized parts and when they go down, you're screwed." That wouldn't go over too well where I'm from. If the units are under Dell/HP business class next day business on-site warranty then I suppose that's fine, but most of my clients want ME to service them, not Dell/HP, and some of my clients scream if they're down for more than an hour or two.

Is it worth it to be down a few days, or have to buy extra computers in case one fails just to save a bit of space? Not to my clients. I've even had clients redesign their offices with full sized towers in mind because they want the flexibility of having a fully serviceable, full sized tower.

The only reason Dell/HP design proprietary crap is because idiots keep buying them. If people would refuse to buy crap that isn't serviceable with readily available off the shelf parts, they'd cut the crap and start offering that. But right now they have absolutely NO incentive to use standard mITX motherboards and power supplies because it's cheaper for them to make proprietary crap, and people will buy them anyway. In fact, they'll buy MORE of them just like you do for spares. It's a win for Dell/HP but a lose for your clients. I REFUSE to support bad design and companies that intentionally make things that aren't repairable.

 

[mikeroq]

We don't bother with custom builds for a general purpose computers anymore. We used to but it's cheaper to get a business grade unit from Dell that has a 3 year NBD warranty. We don't have to mess with stocking parts, swapping out parts, dealing with warranty service from multiple manufacturers, etc. Something happens on these Dell's I can have the part next day. Replace it, ship the old one back with their label, done.

For us custom builds are only done in a handful of cases outside of a gaming computer. For instance we have a customer who has an ancient full tower case with wheels. He just does not want to give up that case. Last we upgraded him from his Core 2 Duo and XP to an i3 and Windows 10.

Outside of a "light" gaming build we did for the president of one of our customers, it's been 3 years since we've done a custom build. Just not enough interest in our market.

 

[Your PCMD]

How do you manage all the cables? Don't the NUCs have power bricks too? Got any pics of an install?

Also, if you use a wireless KB&M, you only have the power cable to content with.

One thing I like about the NUC's is that their basically bulletproof. Provided you use good SSD's and memory. You can get into NUC's for as little as $125. Add $40/memory (2 sticks) and $40/SSD and be under $220 per unit and can STILL install Windows 10 Home for free. Lots of room for profit from the unit itself or from things like upselling Office and Windows 10 Pro, etc. etc.

 

[DMC Unlimited]

How do you manage all the cables? Don't the NUCs have power bricks too? Got any pics of an install?

I don't have any pics on hand, but I'll try to snap one next time I'm on a site where we have one of these units installed. The new NUCs have a power cord with the "brick" at the plug end, so it goes directly into the outlet. It the case of the office I mentioned, there are just two cords that come down the wall for power (monitor and NUC). Mouse/KB are wireless and HDMI is concealed behind the screen. Not difficult to make it look clean in most circumstances we've used them in.

We have some in other offices where the user has the NUC setting on the desk below/next to the monitor. They're so small that they take up virtually no space and it makes for easy access to the USB ports as well. Users are kind of excited about them and they think they're super high-tech simply because they haven't see one before. I'm not sold on these as a desktop replacement mind you, but they have come in handy in certain situations and look pretty slick. We just prefer them over an all-in-one as we have more control over the build and ease of replacement in case of a failure (can upgrade or replace the monitor at any time too). Not knocking all-in-ones for those who use them, these were just an alternative solution we liked better.

 

[DMC Unlimited]

We don't bother with custom builds for a general purpose computers anymore. We used to but it's cheaper to get a business grade unit from Dell that has a 3 year NBD warranty.

Understandable for sure. The local market makes a difference. It can be more expensive to custom build, but we've found the control over the build and what goes in it and the reliability/serviceability is worth it for both us and our clients. Obviously not for everyone, but it certainly works well for us.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

LOL. "Buy extras because they have specialized parts and when they go down, you're screwed." That wouldn't go over too well where I'm from. If the units are under Dell/HP business class next day business on-site warranty then I suppose that's fine, but most of my clients want ME to service them, not Dell/HP, and some of my clients scream if they're down for more than an hour or two.

That's the thing, you keep saying "it's a day or two or a week" of down time, but again..this ain't my first rodeo, we service some large clients, and it's quite common for large clients to have a spare computer or two. Or for small clients...get the 4x hour warranty (a lot shorter than "next day").
And actually, larger shops that have been around like us, we also keep spare parts of our common servers/laptops/desktops/network equipment. Typically >4 of each part. It's actually quite easier than trying to service motherboard of the month club stuff.

 

[sapphirescales]

That's the thing, you keep saying "it's a day or two or a week" of down time, but again..this ain't my first rodeo, we service some large clients, and it's quite common for large clients to have a spare computer or two. Or for small clients...get the 4x hour warranty (a lot shorter than "next day").
And actually, larger shops that have been around like us, we also keep spare parts of our common servers/laptops/desktops/network equipment. Typically >4 of each part. It's actually quite easier than trying to service motherboard of the month club stuff.

What about the software and configuration? Having to swap out and entire computer isn't an optimal solution (though granted, it's a LOT easier with Windows 10 these days). There are so many different models of computer out there. I don't know how you'd keep a specialized motherboard for every one you have out in the field. It would be much better to simply sell computers with all standard parts than have to keep a bunch of spares lying around, or make your client buy spares and store them. That makes no sense.

And what about when it's time to upgrade these computers? Replacing all their computers every few years gets expensive. It's much better to just swap out the motherboard/CPU and maybe a power supply than to have to replace an entire $1,000+ computer. More profit for you, and they reduce their costs by anywhere between 30% and 50% vs. replacement.

I have some computers still in the field in beige boxes. All new guts, but the things look ancient. One of my oldest clients has a church. Somebody broke in and stole pretty much EVERYTHING, but they left their new (at the time) 6th gen i7 systems behind because they were in old beige boxes from the 90's. LOL. They stole the monitors though as they were nice HP business class monitors.

 

[nerd2u]

LOL. "Buy extras because they have specialized parts and when they go down, you're screwed." That wouldn't go over too well where I'm from. If the units are under Dell/HP business class next day business on-site warranty then I suppose that's fine, but most of my clients want ME to service them, not Dell/HP, and some of my clients scream if they're down for more than an hour or two.

Is it worth it to be down a few days, or have to buy extra computers in case one fails just to save a bit of space? Not to my clients. I've even had clients redesign their offices with full sized towers in mind because they want the flexibility of having a fully serviceable, full sized tower.

The only reason Dell/HP design proprietary crap is because idiots keep buying them. If people would refuse to buy crap that isn't serviceable with readily available off the shelf parts, they'd cut the crap and start offering that. But right now they have absolutely NO incentive to use standard mITX motherboards and power supplies because it's cheaper for them to make proprietary crap, and people will buy them anyway. In fact, they'll buy MORE of them just like you do for spares. It's a win for Dell/HP but a lose for your clients. I REFUSE to support bad design and companies that intentionally make things that aren't repairable.

If they can't afford more then an hour's down time then they are getting a warm spare.

Some of my clients are more than an hour away from me so they would be longer for me just to bring spare parts.

Part of any business continuity plan should be having spare equipment on hand to replace equipment in the event of hardware failure.

Sent from my SM-G870W using Tapatalk

 

[Porthos]

https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/deskto.../m-series-aio/ThinkCentre-M910z/p/11TC1MZ910Z

That price is for the base config. Once you add memory and SSD it goes up.

 

[sapphirescales]

It can be more expensive to custom build, but we've found the control over the build and what goes in it and the reliability/serviceability is worth it for both us and our clients. Obviously not for everyone, but it certainly works well for us.

This is exactly how my clients think. They'd rather spend a few bucks more and go with the best of the best vs. going with "good enough" and getting screwed later down the road when it comes to upgrades and long downtimes. I always use Corsair power supplies and Samsung SSD's. You can't get those with ANY Dell/HP unit, business class or otherwise. Not to mention the high quality motherboards with plated capacitors rated for 50,000+ hours. Is that worth spending an extra $100 to $300? Absolutely.

 

[Your PCMD]

Some of my clients are more than an hour away from me so they would be longer for me just to bring spare parts.

Part of any business continuity plan should be having spare equipment on hand to replace equipment in the event of hardware failure.

Thats like me. I have clients anywhere from an hour to 2 hours away. I build all my business machines with the same motherboard and CPU.

Last Gen
i3-6100
MSI B250M PRO-VDH

This Gen
i3-7100
B360M DS3H

I have 3 of each of the 6100 and B250's and 3 each of the 7100 and B360 in my vehicle and 2 of each of them all in the shop just in case someone brings one in. And I have 10 240GB SSD's and 5 480GB SSD's in the shop with 3 of each in the vehicle along with 3 500W EVGA PSU's and a 12 in the shop. Replacement out in the field is dead simple. As far as the NUC's are concerned, they are in essence, a laptop in a box. But they are great little units and pretty darn fast when you plop an SSD in them. I have 11 of these NUC's deployed, never an issue so far and I have 2 on hand just in case.