Client trying to back me into a corner by being cheap?

[thecomputerguy]

I sold this client all of their computers (5) and their server about 7 years ago. When their server was nearing the end of it's 5-Year next business day warranty, I started the process of explaining that all of the computers & server are all on the same lifecycle which is 5-6 years and we are nearing the end of that. Of course they delay, don't listen, brush aside like all clients do.

The server and their workstations are now 7 years old and starting to have some significant issues. The server is shutting itself off at night and not turning back on so they come in and nothing is working 2-3 days a week. Desktops are glitching out due to 7 years of crap on them. Network hardware is in desperate need of an upgrade, typical stuff that happens over 7 years.

I explain to them that the next move would be a significant push into the cloud which would include new computers.

- The server would be removed entirely and not replaced. It holds a legacy database which is only being used to reference old data. No new data is being added, and there is no need for it to be shared anymore. So this database/program could be loaded onto a workstation.
- Server also hosts a local 1-user Quickbooks Desktop database that would be moved to a hosted option
- Folder redirection would be removed in favor of OneDrive backup
- DHCP/DNS would be redirected back to the network appliance
- Their main data is in Dropbox, mainly because they prefer it and changing their workflow to SP/Teams simply isn't worth the hassle
- They have downsized from 5 workstations down to 3.

So I explain this, and say it would be simple to just bring in 3 new desktops start with a clean slate, and give everything a clean a refreshed start. Starting fresh would also make this transition significantly easier using modern equipment that doesn't have 7 years of garbage on it.

So I'm thinking easy, 3 computers, 15 hours of labor or so, some networking equipment, badabing done easy.

They say that they want me to send a couple of estimates.

1.) Replacing everything and following the plan above.

Then I get hit with the, well we are tired of our server dying in the middle of the night and we are tired of how poorly our computers are running BUT

2.) Follow the above plan but we are going to cheap out and we don't want to buy new equipment we want you to make this whole new cloud system work for us with our 7 year old computers.

I explained how bad of an idea that was, they said, yes we know but we just don't want to spend the money on the new computers and they just want pricing for both.

These systems all originally had Windows 7 on them and were upgraded to Windows 10.

The more I think about quoting the two options the more I'm thinking ... I just don't even want to do this if they are going to force me into a position to rebuild their whole system using 7 year old hardware. I just can't even imagine them being ticked off because XY or Z isn't there or moved or isn't working like it used to, and me being ticked off because I never wanted to do this shotty job in the first place.

How do you all handle something like this?

I'm thinking I'm just going to say that until they are ready to do the whole thing I'm not going to try and force a new system on computers that are approaching a decade old.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Oh that's easy, send both estimates...

Just the latter has the padded hours of labor required to make the old crap work as well as it could, with a huge line item of the equipment being DEAD Oct of 25.

The price of the project should be quite comparable, if not more expensive than doing it correctly. So it's clear to them that you will be WELL PAID for your time, and you can even heartily recommend it... being very open and grateful for the extra cash you're going to get to keep.

Works EVERY time.

 

[sapphirescales]

Follow the above plan but we are going to cheap out and we don't want to buy new equipment we want you to make this whole new cloud system work for us with our 7 year old computers.

When clients try to cheap out by keeping their old equipment that's completely obsolete I tell them that it's totally possible but that their old equipment will need a few upgrades. If they want to keep those old computers, that's fine, but each computer will need a new motherboard/CPU/memory/PSU/SSD, basically a gut job. Then of course you have to add an OS and your labor and it very quickly becomes obvious to them that the cost of upgrading their old computers is almost as much as just getting new ones. Sometimes it even costs more. They'll quickly change their tune or go with a competitor who's willing to band-aid their old systems for half the price then call you when it completely falls apart. Either way, you win.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Certainly sounds do-able either way.
I love getting rid of servers, moving clients to 365.
Now, the old workstations, yeah, 7 years old. But honestly...since SSDs came out, the big Achilles heal of an old computer...the spindle drive...is gone. I'm assuming these computers of your clients are SSD. If not, meet them in the middle. A quick clone of a spindle to SSD, and upgrade RAM to 16 gigs...couple-hunge-bucks...now they'll run fine for a few more years til end of 2025 when they'll have to move to Win11 or >.

I agree...pad your time. 7 year old computers, even with SSD and 16 gigs, won't be as fast as modern 6x or 8x or more core CPUs on M.2 drives. So you'll be spending more time. Also in that "spending more time"...you'll be cleaning them up, uninstalling junk software, fully updating them (Dell Command, Lenovo Vantage, whatever), Microsoft updates, uninstalling web players (bye bye flash, shockwave, quicktime, java, silverlight, old Adobe stuff, etc). Start with a fresh new user profile for the AzureAD login and they'll run OK for a couple of years.

Strongly encourage moving stuff out of Dropbox, and into 365. Things "just work so much better" with how apps (like Word, Excel), are cloud site aware (OD, Teams/SP), and how files track and get shared in Teams, etc etc.

 

[thecomputerguy]

@YeOldeStonecat

Yeah they are all on SSD's (256GB+8GB RAM) but they also have a tendency to be needy and annoying clients. I don't want there to be expectations that I am going to somehow make 7-8 year old computers run like magic and my job would be SO much easier if they would just throw another $2500 into the pot for a decent new computers.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@thecomputerguy I have had far less push back on new machines since I started doing refurbs. Those are about a two for one deal on the cost side for 8th gen gear that can Win11 just fine. That's as "cheap" as I'll go. I don't require new desktops, I just want them all to be optiplexes to save what's left of my hair.

 

[britechguy]

@thecomputerguy,

I say the following not to be glib or flip, but you should only quote them what you are actually willing to do. And if you're really not willing to try to hold together ancient equipment with bubblegum and string, then you should decline to quote for such.

If you've clearly explained why you do not wish to pursue a certain route, and it is your responsibility not only to do it, but to make it keep working afterward, you're not doing yourself (or your client, really) any favors by caving to their request/demand.

If they're really not happy with what you truly wish to provide, and for reasons that you find compelling, then it's better to let them find someone else (and very likely come crawling back at some point after "cheaping out" collapses).

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Well, $2500 bucks would be about 3 refurbs...yeah. I think your ~15 hours is light if you have new computers. But make it at least half again in labor to do it with existing computers. Close the gap. Tell them you're spending quite a bit more time on the project with older and slower computers, time needed to tune them up, Microsoft updates, etc etc. I don't know the specs of these old computers, but I always sold middle or higher grade computers in the past, so 7 year old rigs on SSDs would still be tolerable, and I keep clients rigs clean. But if they're Pentium D or i3...yeah...no go for me.

 

[NviGate Systems]

They back you into a corner, you dump them by the curbside!

Do you really want the headache of those old machines? What if a PSU blows and takes the entire machine? Last person that touches the hot potato!

Besides, in two years when Windows 10 goes EOL, those machines are sitting ducks.

If it were me and I didn't need the clients, I would only send one quote and include a memo saying it's not economical for reuse, just like how major OEM do when they replace machines under warranty, they often state "not economical for repair, costs exceed device value".

 

[timeshifter]

Yeah they are all on SSD's (256GB+8GB RAM)

Are they OptiPlex? i5? What generation, 4th, 5th?

I wonder how their business is doing. They went from 3 to 5 computers. Seems like an indication that revenue may be down. Maybe they're having trouble keeping the lights on?

 

[britechguy]

Seems like an indication that revenue may be down. Maybe they're having trouble keeping the lights on?

Which, while that may be, is not a problem we can solve.

At the current juncture of Windows 10 sunsetting in 3 years and Windows 11 sunrising, spending even several thousand dollars to keep antiques going (if you intend to keep going) is not fiscally responsible.

If your computer situation, when it's as small in size as the initial description indicates, is what's "the tipping point" between keeping the lights on and closing your doors, it's likely much better for all involved to close those doors. And this is coming from someone who found themselves in just such a situation 9 years ago. Dragging out death is not the same thing as increasing lifespan.

 

[Markverhyden]

I agree with the refurb route. Been doing that for almost all my customers and it's worked out well.

 

[timeshifter]

Which, while that may be, is not a problem we can solve.

Never said it was our problem to solve. Knowing the answer to that would influence my reaction to their request.

 

[britechguy]

Knowing the answer to that would influence my reaction to their request.

In what way? The subtext to that query is that you'd consider doing what they asked, and the only reason to do so is the belief that it helps in solving the issue you posited.

The reasons for not doing it don't change, and even explaining it really doesn't change that much;

 

[nlinecomputers]

In what way? The subtext to that query is that you'd consider doing what they asked, and the only reason to do so is the belief that it helps in solving the issue you posited.

The reasons for not doing it don't change, and even explaining it really doesn't change that much;

Depends on if you, as a business practice, supply lines of credit (bad idea. Use a 3rd party for that) or if you have a service contact. They might go bankrupt and not be able to finish the contract. Could blow any expected budget to bits.

 

[britechguy]

Depends on if you, as a business practice, supply lines of credit (bad idea. Use a 3rd party for that) or if you have a service contact. They might go bankrupt and not be able to finish the contract. Could blow any expected budget to bits.

Well, I presume that most of us here, who are pretty small businesses, don't extend substantial lines of credit (other than something like Net 30).

Regardless of everything else, they could go bankrupt, and if they did the contract becomes pretty much a non-issue.

My main point being that if you suspect a client is about to go under, proceed with extreme caution, and don't think that allowing them to cheap out is going to save them. That's way outside/above our bailiwicks.

I also doubt that many businesses would ever actually tell you they're on death's door, so you have to read between the lines.

 

[nlinecomputers]

the contract becomes pretty much a non-issue.

It is an issue if you are expecting and plan for the income. Unless you can replace it with someone else you might have to make cutbacks and so on. Not a big deal with a 3 PC shop but the concept remains. It’s a drop in income.

 

[britechguy]

@nlinecomputers

I'm not arguing your point about income. I simply presume that this is something each and every one of us takes into account in light of our own situations. If you think a client is teetering, and you can't afford to take a loss in income if (when, probably) they do, then it's best to avoid taking on jobs from them.

Too many people seem to think it's just not possible to say, "No, thanks," to potential customers or existing customers when circumstances warrant such. It isn't, and it gets easier once you learn how and when to do it.

Unless you are under contract, you have zero obligation beyond that which you feel willing to take on. And sometimes that means not taking anything on.

 

[frase]

@britechguy well explained, and I do do this . I do not take on all jobs if they are not beneficial to me. As in residential users trying to kick tyres to get a best price over quality of service. It does give one a feeling of relief when one job you denied as to clientele or cost effectiveness.

Then we can continue on to other more important issues rather than think about these client's when we try to sleep at night.

 

[britechguy]

Then we can continue on to other more important issues rather than think about these client's when we try to sleep at night.

Indeed. But I must be "the weird one" when it comes to the sleeping at night part. I have pretty much always been someone who can put virtually everything away at the end of the day when it comes to work, and that's even when I was working as a cognitive rehabilitation therapist. There was sometimes the subconscious "hamster on the wheel" where something would pop up, unbidden, but all that requires is taking a note and then it's done until the next business day.

The only time I had problems with that was when I first started working, and once I determined that if the employer had their way I'd be on 24/7, without being on the clock 24/7, I knew it was going to be up to me to enforce work-life balance. That's probably the roots of learning how to say , "No," and mean it. I only wish I had originated the famous phrase, "I would prefer not to."