Client not paying Invoices

[Pc Mot]

Hi, Got a weird one here could do with some advise.

Been dealing with a client here in the uk since early March, medium size company who have grown big quick. I took over control off the two sites that they had. Set up a new server on a new site, all things going really well. I wasn't charging alot either for maintenance on the setups they had. They were a little awkward with paying, had to chase a bit all the time.
Warning lights were flickering, should of paid attention.
Well now they are 3 months in arrears and i have basically pushed them to the back of the queue as paying customers come first.
Well today out of the blue i was told im no longer than IT Support for one of the sites. Glad to be rid, to be honest. They requested access to the admin account on Office 365 where all the business emails are hosted. But They have 3 outstanding invoices. So they want all information for all logons to server, all emails etc and all broadband and other information i have. I said i would willingly send the information over as soon as all 3 invoices are settled.

Am i within my rights here.

The manager of the site was really looking for an argument down the phone but i kept professional and said when you pay the invoices i will mail the information you requested.

Needless to say shes realised im not going to argue with her. Now shes picking fault with everything i have done for months. Mind you shes not even been there for long, last 2 months????
What do i do?????

At the end of the day i have been looking for an escape route, this is it, but do i get out and cut my losses or do i wait. both sites are probably in this together so im probably going to have this with them as well.
the amount of money isnt going to break the bank and i can afford to lose it but would rather not!

 

[Martyn]

I'm not sure where you legally stand but I would do the same as you. Send your invoices in again for payment.

 

[Pc Mot]

Thanks Martyn, that where I stand already.
Stand my ground, for now lol.

 

[benh4889]

I agree with Martyn. I also dont know where you stand legally but personally id hold out giving them the details until they have paid you.

 

[Pc Mot]

Thanks guys.

 

[mraikes]

The appropriateness of holding back those details depends on circumstances we haven't yet been told.

IF you "inherited" the details from a predecessor - they don't belong to you. Give them up to the client.

However, if YOU did the work of setting up Office 365, the servers, everything else AND that work has not yet been paid for - then stand your ground. They don't "own" what they haven't yet paid for. (At least that can be your stance until the law says otherwise).

 

[Pc Mot]

I did inherit some of the details ie office 365, but i also amended, changed - updated alot of these things as well. The new server etc i setup from scratch so thats def mine so to speak.
Also holding this back is the only thing I have left.
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[nesrinamb]

Well I would do the same as you are doing now. I'm not sure but I believe certain areas do have "mechanics" liens. Basically meaning that technically you own whatever you fixed until payment is made if its not made then you can take it and sell it to recover costs.

The mechanics lien is a thing in California not sure about the uk but if it leads to it i say put the squeeze on them, as far as the whole thing of them wanting the info that's their responsibility. I always give my clients copies and if they lose them and we have issues down the road I would be happy to give it to them again once they pay their bill.

 

[Pc Mot]

Thanks for your feedback.
Will let you know.

Pc Mot

 

[brandonkick]

That information is the only leg you have left to stand on, make sure they pay you what they owe you. If you give up that information, you'll likely never get paid.

 

[phaZed]

Ya, I would let them take you to court if need be.. They would have some explaining to do.

 

[mraikes]

For all the support on holding back the info (a perfectly understandable "gut response" from this audience), keep in mind that you may become responsible for any damages they claim as a result.

If their business suffers because of your action (or inaction) - you may be held responsible.

If they incur additional expense with some other support option because of your actions - you may be held responsible.

Before you get into a pi$$ing match that could leave you severely wet and stinky, you need to make sure you know the law.

If it's not worth paying a lawyer for one hours worth of advice so you know exactly where you stand, it's not worth the risk of getting into a fight about it.

 

[nlinecomputers]

For all the support on holding back the info (a perfectly understandable "gut response" from this audience), keep in mind that you may become responsible for any damages they claim as a result.

If their business suffers because of your action (or inaction) - you may be held responsible.

If they incur additional expense with some other support option because of your actions - you may be held responsible.

Before you get into a pi$$ing match that could leave you severely wet and stinky, you need to make sure you know the law.

If it's not worth paying a lawyer for one hours worth of advice so you know exactly where you stand, it's not worth the risk of getting into a fight about it.

This exactly. I would give them the info the require. Hand deliver it along with the subpoena in your lawsuit. I don't know what UK law is but I would be filling your lawsuit in small claims(or what ever is the UK version) today.

 

[phaZed]

For all the support on holding back the info (a perfectly understandable "gut response" from this audience), keep in mind that you may become responsible for any damages they claim as a result.

While that is a cautious approach, and a perfectly fine one to take, THEY fired him, not the other way around. It was the customer's decision to cease business with IT.. and now they need his help yet again (More consultation fees, right!?). A smart customer would have had their ducks in a row before letting IT go. Point is, the customer has brought this upon themselves by not paying for months and being in arrears as well as the terminating the business agreement.

I would file a claim like nlinecomputers stated. Bring the info to the judge.

 

[brandonkick]

While that is a cautious approach, and a perfectly fine one to take, THEY fired him, not the other way around. It was the customer's decision to cease business with IT.. and now they need his help yet again (More consultation fees, right!?). A smart customer would have had their ducks in a row before letting IT go. Point is, the customer has brought this upon themselves by not paying for months and being in arrears as well as the terminating the business agreement.

I would file a claim like nlinecomputers stated. Bring the info to the judge.

My thoughts exactly. What can they sue him for? He set up equipment and software for which they haven't fully paid him. On top of that, they decided they no longer need his services so they broke contract with him. Now they need information on the work that he did? I don't see how he was liable, or will be liable for anything. However I fully agree that he should pay for an hours worth of reputable legal advice in his neck of the woods. Especially if the amount owed is much in excess of the cost of the consultation. The legal advice is also something that will come in handy much further on down the road.

Perhaps the legal consultant can even recommend the types of forms that any future clients need to sign so that the OP can protect themselves from this type of situation. More specifically, make it legally understood and agreed upon that the clients do not get the keys to the castle until all bills are paid in full.

 

[AndyM]

You have a number of options available to you.

Firstly, the Small Claims Court as mentioned before (https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/overview). To make a claim, just fill in https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome

If you don't want to go down that route, then I would ask if you have a business bank account? If you do, then there may be services built into your account. I bank with Barclays, and can send unlimited solicitors letters to the client. I've had to do this on a couple of occasions, and you'll be surprised how quickly you get paid!

Next option is to use a credit agency. I have one that I use, which has been very effective when needed (I use this company now instead of Barclays).

In terms of you handing the data over to the client, I wouldn't. You have not received payment for the work you have done, so you reserve the right to retain the data until such time that payment is made in full. Don't forget to add on interest at the published Barclays base rate.

I guess I'm fortunate in that I have a couple of insolvency agencies on my books, so their advice is golden (and free to me ). Obviously it doesn't stop companies wanting to pull a fast one though.

One thing I have learnt in my monetary travels though is this - make sure you have everything in writing! If you provide services to them, then in your contract (or terms and conditions - hopefully listed on your website), ensure that there is a section that covers payment and non payment respectively. IT's a tough world. If you don't have agreements and terms and conditions in place, then any client can run rings round you

Andy

 

[Pc Mot]

Hi Guys.
Sorry been at work all day.
Great info there, im going to just sit on my hands for a couple of days and see how what unfolds. If nothing moves then I may take a bit of legal advise. believe im actually insured for it as well, solicitors etc.
Will let you know.

Dean

 

[MikeLierman]

What's your process when you do work for someone? Do you have them sign a work order? We always have the customer or business sign a work order for anything more than just simply maintenance. Any new equipment, new servers, new Office 365, these are big ticket items and require a signature from the boss. That way if they don't pay, I can take it to small claims. I've even taken smaller customers that wouldn't pay, to the police. The story is a little different if an officer contacts you and threatens to cite you if you don't pay your dues. Luckily I've only had to do this once, and my city is fairly small, and the police and very nice and willing to help. Other big cities, you may only have the choice of small claims.

Regardless, if I were you, I would not give them their information, logins, etc until they have paid. They ceased doing business with you, so it's the new IT guy's problem, not yours. In fact, if you purchased the server with your own money, and they haven't paid for it yet, I'd go in, unhook it, and take it, since it's your property.

 

[Pc Mot]

Hi, thanks for all the advise.

At the end of the day all the hardware i bought i made them pay up front, so haven't lost out there.

Basically it was only a verbal contract and to be honest all i was doing was supposed to be supporting the server, keep an eye on it etc, make sure everything's OK and be on hand for any hiccups.
When i setup the new server from scratch i new there would be teething issues.
Well few issues first week or two, mainly them, forgetting passwords etc.

Well it turned out to be 20-30 phone calls a day, all on my mobile which they shouldn't of even had except for the boss. they had an office number to ring.
I even had to get another mobile in the end because of the amount of calls, all because they couldn't open this, send that, login to this.

Well as far as i was aware i wasn't really supporting this anyway. I understood at the beginning with a new server, and i charged them a fair bit for that. But it went on and on, i thought well let it go for a while, it should settle down and the maintenance part of if will cover any silly little issues.
They then made it more and more difficult to chase up payments, send it over will sort it, week later still not sorted, sorry been hectic, send it over again. It got to the stage where i thought right sod it will get to you when i finish with a client who's paying.

It's just got manic with them, like i was there in house it guy! I said to the boss that if he wants me for more time a month than your currently paying me i will be charging alot more than i am at present.

He always seemed ok and honest.
I'll be glad to see the back of them but would just like to be paid for what I have done.

Dean
Pc Mot

 

[RA|Consult]

I don't know what UK law is but I would be filling your lawsuit in small claims(or what ever is the UK version) today.

Oregon US law says that you can also recoup attorney and filing fee's for small claims ... that might be your best option here. Come out relatively unscathed, hopefully this customer doesn't know a whole lot of people!