Cheating People

[camp.cool007]

This will probably make some people uneasy, but that's ok. Let me know what you think of my opinion.

I personally can't stand people that cheat other people out of money, time, ext in the computer business. I'm talking about charging ridiculous amounts of money for 5 minutes of work that didn't take any effort at all; about ordering parts for clients and then charging $20-$50 on top of that just to get some extra cash; about working extra slow on computers and purposely goofing off on the job and taking 3 times as long to finish the job, just to get more money. Pardon my language, but I personally think that's a bunch of crap. Now of course there's always going to be circumstances every once in a great while, but doing it because of greed, it just, I dont know.

The reason for a lot of problems with peoples trust is because of this. I wont charge ridiculous rates for super easy jobs. For example, I had to install a sound driver on a elderly ladies computer. It was 5 minutes worth of work. Easy enough, right. When I was finished she pulled out a $50 and asked if that would cover it. I told her that I would only charge $15. She had then proceeded to tell me that a local computer shop would charge her $70 to do that. What a rip off. But that's just one of the many stories I hear.

 

[ithinkyou5.0]

for me what i charge has many contributing factors. for example i dont have a car so im limited to walking or public transport which can become expensive and tiresome very quickly. if someone lives a while away it may take me several hours to get there to do a 15 minute job. also if you charge to little the person may start calling you up for all the little jobs they can fix themselves like forgetting to plug in the monitor (trust me it happens) i wouldnt charge full price for a 15 minute job i may even do it free the first time but after that i have to start thinking is it worth my time to travel that far for nothing? i do agree that a local shop was overchargeing as they dont really have any of these issues to worry about but they do still have to pay there staff regardless of if they make any money that week.

 

[lawson_jl]

I think you both make valid points and totally agree with a tad more for the "hassel", but that's just goes with the job. Once people find a good tech they tend to wear you down with question after Question.

I recently fix a women's computer someone had deleted some files and broke her photo software. I fixed the issue and noticed she had AVG 7 and upgraded her to AVG8 and wouldn't you know it I got not one but two calls from her. She called two days later to complain that AVG scanned at 12PM everyday when she was tring to use it. She told me she didnt' even bother to try and change it she just called me since I would know. A week later she called because AVG said the update failed and her internet didn't work. Some how her DSL modem got turned off.

I think a shop charging $70 to install a sound driver is a little rediclus. I would however expect them to charge more then I would since they have the over head of a shop. Your looking at rent, phone, internt, electric, water and swear just for the shop alone. So to make money they have to charge more then the independent tech that doesn't have as much overhead.

 

[Sevdog]

Was it onsite work? It would depend if the PC was dropped off to me or if I had to drive a distance and spend time and gas getting there. I still wouldnt charge anywhere near $70 to fix her problem though and if it was dropped off to me I would go way easy on her. Shops like the one's that charge $70 to install a driver is one of the reasons that I started my biz. I hate seeing people getting robbed like that.

 

[bagellad]

Once you count driving there, driving back, having the phone to call, being there to take the call, going to fix the problem, etc. I think the normal rate is fair... because I view it as some people will have bigger worse problems and you can cut them a break, frankly im sure the lady could use a tuneup so fill up the rest of the hour by doing that stuff. Then you really wow'd her!

 

[joe3k]

$15... are you mad. By the time you get there and back you've wasted that $15. Remember they're not paying for what you do... they're paying for what you know. If an inexperienced tech had went there for all you know he may have fixed the problem but made the pc worse, or maybe couldn't figure it out and did a format/re-install and charged a bunch as it took him so long.

The fact that you knew what you were doing, knew exactly how to fix it, got in and out quick without disruption and fixed the problem beyond a shadow of doubt, is worth a hell of a lot more than a measly $15. The fact that you charged so little not only devalued your worth but also impacted on the IT community, as people grow to expect cheap repairs just cos their 15 year old nephew or whatever said if he was free he could do it for a tenner.

As bagellad says. Charge her the min 1 hour for getting there and back etc, spend a litlle time doing useful stuff for her and leave her feeling wow that guy was generous as he had my pc fixed in 5 mins and could have just charged me the full hour and left, however he stayed and cleaned up my pc for free... what a nice guy. More money and more respect for you.

 

[gunslinger]

If I went to her place it would depend on distance. If she was within 10 miles of my shop I would have charged maybe $30 and run Ccleaner and a defrag while I was there. If she was more than 10 times I would charge $1 per mile over. If the system was dropped off at my shop I would have charged $20 and asked her if she wanted a cleanup done while I had it.

 

[camp.cool007]

No, I am not mad! This was a friend who had done a lot for me. Of course I would have charged more if this was a complete stranger. Also, I tend not to charge by time, but by job. It makes it easy.

 

[joe3k]

Home users can be a pain in the ass. If you owned a shop and had all those overheads and expenses and the user wanted a site visit and you weren't sure of exactly what the problem was before seeing the pc (maybe you only talked on the phone). You'd really have to quote approx $70 fixed price to cover yourself. If it runs overtime you take the hit, if it runs under... happy days - they agreed to the job price... thats business (that's hardly what I would call a rip off).

A lot of home uses want a fixed price so they know it won't cost anymore and they are unhappy to let you fix their pc on a time basis, as they fear it could take ages to fix and cost more than the pc is worth to them. If they won't let you work on time, it's only fair to factor in problems when quoting prices.

E.g. to upgrade a component takes 2mins, however if you upgrade and find troubles you could be there for a while. They wanted a fixed price so you need to factor this in. Just because you then goto site and everything goes smooth, you're in and out in 2 mins doesn't mean you should say oh hey it took less time than I though - here have your money back it's on me. If that same job ran overtime and you spent a while correcting a niggly problem - there'd be no chance they go wow that took a long time - here have double/treble/quadruple your money.

As for ordering parts for clients you'd need a good bit extra also. If you order it you have to cover it, so you need to factor this in. if you don't want to add extra find the part online or tell them where to go and get it themselves and you'll pop it in for a small fee. However make them aware if anything goes wrong with it you aren't covering it!

However your comments on working slow and goofing off are spot on... that is just not on! Oh and if it was my friend and they'd done a lot for me, in honesty I'd have done it for free - well maybe for a pint

 

[Felix]

I wouldn't consider it cheating someone if I went out to their place for $70
and just installed a sound card driver. I would do a few other tasks just to fill take 30-60Mins and provide value. But that's MY choice.

Number 1. They are paying for our time, more than likely they'll ask us
tons of other questions while we are there.

We take our time to go out there. And as mentioned already, more than likely they will call us about other issues related to what we've done. At first I was uncomfortable raising my prices. But after what I've been through and what
I've read about everyone else. I have no problem with it now.

I also keep in mind the amount of times a client emails me with simple questions, no problem. It's email, but I've learned to get to the point where I say, I can come out and check it out for x amount of dollars.

There is no "goofing off" for me. I charge by the job. When you help a home user they expect more help afterwards. So now I feel I have to "hide" that in my original charge to them.

 

[TimeCode]

$15... are you mad. By the time you get there and back you've wasted that $15.

so next time you go there are you going to charge her only $15 again? That is a bad precedent to set. I have an hourly minimum and I charge that for all calls.

As bagellad says. Charge her the min 1 hour for getting there and back etc, spend a litlle time doing useful stuff for her and leave her feeling wow that guy was generous as he had my pc fixed in 5 mins and could have just charged me the full hour and left, however he stayed and cleaned up my pc for free... what a nice guy. More money and more respect for you.

This is exactly what I do. I explain "You've paid for my services for an hour. Is there anything else that I can do for you? Speed up your computer, examine any crashes, check your antivirus software???

 

[Portis]

Maybe raise your prices

I charge $150 minimum onsite that covers the first hour. Inshop labor $75 but we charge more by the job, ie Nuke and Pave or virus removal $150, driver/RAM install and laptop key replacement $25. But the motherload is DC jack replacement on laptops $225 it beats replacing the whole systemboard. You guys who dont own or run a store, dont sell yourself short. You can charge out the ying-yang if you know what you are doing, its worth the money to the customer to have someone who is an expert fix their snafu.

 

[usacvlr]

It's a knowledge based business. Time is not the commodity. If the customer can't or doesn't want to do it themselves and they are willing to pay your price then that is the value of your service to them.

This will probably make some people uneasy, but that's ok. Let me know what you think of my opinion.

I personally can't stand people that cheat other people out of money, time, ext in the computer business. I'm talking about charging ridiculous amounts of money for 5 minutes of work that didn't take any effort at all; about ordering parts for clients and then charging $20-$50 on top of that just to get some extra cash; about working extra slow on computers and purposely goofing off on the job and taking 3 times as long to finish the job, just to get more money. Pardon my language, but I personally think that's a bunch of crap. Now of course there's always going to be circumstances every once in a great while, but doing it because of greed, it just, I dont know.

The reason for a lot of problems with peoples trust is because of this. I wont charge ridiculous rates for super easy jobs. For example, I had to install a sound driver on a elderly ladies computer. It was 5 minutes worth of work. Easy enough, right. When I was finished she pulled out a $50 and asked if that would cover it. I told her that I would only charge $15. She had then proceeded to tell me that a local computer shop would charge her $70 to do that. What a rip off. But that's just one of the many stories I hear.

 

[nonchalant]

You can charge out the ying-yang if you know what you are doing, its worth the money to the customer to have someone who is an expert fix their snafu.

Agreed.

Another way of looking at this is to ask yourself how much would you pay for a good car mechanic. Personally I would pay extra for someone who does a good job and offers excellent service. Its a minefield out there when it comes to the service industry & a good technician that might cost a few extra $$ is better than one you dont know.

 

[bits-n-bytes]

The overhead is where most of my costs go, do each of you that charge so little for your service pay liability insurance ? How about the overhead of purchasing the software to recover data? the double accounting system, plus the amount the state and feds take out of you when you actually file taxes?

As most have posted its not how fast you do something that they (the customer is paying for) but what you know. Thats why they call, if the person feels that they have been "ripped off" they will not call again, most people want to pay you for your time and service so they can call back and complain if you mess up.

I like most ,charge by what i feel the job is worth, and have many callbacks , I never advertise and am hardly twiddling my thumbs. I give back to the community by doing free work for some churches and non profits , like our womens shelter , I guess thats how I justify my prices.

 

[camp.cool007]

so next time you go there are you going to charge her only $15 again? That is a bad precedent to set. I have an hourly minimum and I charge that for all calls.



This is exactly what I do. I explain "You've paid for my services for an hour. Is there anything else that I can do for you? Speed up your computer, examine any crashes, check your antivirus software???

As a matter of fact yes I will charge $15 again!!! She's my personal friend as well as my client. As I said before, no I'm not going to do it for everybody, but for her, absolutely! Lay off. If I want to charge $15 for something I will, even if my normal price for the job is $100. That's not the purpose of the thread. The purpose of this thread was not to gripe about how I charge people but to get peoples opinions on people cheating other people just because they can. If anyone's still reading this I'd need some good unbiased opinions. Quit griping, please, people! You almost are giving me a headache!

 

[Bryce W]

camp.cool007, I guess the point everyone was trying to make is that when a techie charges $60 for a problem that took 10 minutes, they arent really charging $60 for only 10 minutes. They are charging for the half an hour it took to get onsite and go home.

They are charging for the cost of their education and experience that made them good enough to diagnose that problem in only 10 minutes where it may have taken someone less educated/experienced an hour.

If you dont charge at least an hours worth while onsite, even for a 10 minute job you are only hurting yourself because the better you get (and thus quicker) the less you get paid where it should be the other way.

 

[Felix]

This will probably make some people uneasy, but that's ok. Let me know what you think of my opinion.

I personally can't stand people that cheat other people out of money, time, ext in the computer business. I'm talking about charging ridiculous amounts of money for 5 minutes of work that didn't take any effort at all; about ordering parts for clients and then charging $20-$50 on top of that just to get some extra cash; about working extra slow on computers and purposely goofing off on the job and taking 3 times as long to finish the job, just to get more money. Pardon my language, but I personally think that's a bunch of crap. Now of course there's always going to be circumstances every once in a great while, but doing it because of greed, it just, I dont know.

The reason for a lot of problems with peoples trust is because of this. I wont charge ridiculous rates for super easy jobs. For example, I had to install a sound driver on a elderly ladies computer. It was 5 minutes worth of work. Easy enough, right. When I was finished she pulled out a $50 and asked if that would cover it. I told her that I would only charge $15. She had then proceeded to tell me that a local computer shop would charge her $70 to do that. What a rip off. But that's just one of the many stories I hear.

What everyone is referring to isn't the fact that you helped a friend, I've helped my friends for free or VERY low prices, because they've done a lot for me.

It's the fact that you feel it's a rip off for a tech to come out and charge $50-$75 dollars to fix that one problem.

Some people will gladly pay extra on top of parts, because they don't have to spend the time to order/buy them themselves. I usually have clients buy their own parts and I just tell them what to get or send them a link to where to buy it.

Just like with cables, people will walk into a store and pay $$$ for a cable because they want it NOW, rather then pay a little less and order online.
Even though it's VERY hard for me to grasp the way the average client thinks I've been learning more since I've been at this wonderful site.
I wouldn't say I grew up "poor" but just a step above it. My Father had many jobs over the years, and was not making much working for the local government and my mother didn't work. So for my father to take care of us all (4 boys total) they had to stretch money and he had to work a lot!.
I was happy to have a computer so I took advantage of it. If I needed anything I couldn't just go to the store and get it, if it was much cheaper online I had to wait for it to come. Any and everything I needed I had to learn to shop around for. My mother watched the budget like a HAWK! and if I requested anything (to young to get a job at the time, they wanted me to focus on school) she taught me to learn to look for alternatives first then if I couldn't come up with something she would see if we could afford it. My parents were totally DIY, so it's been tricky for me to realize that people can and will pay someone else for their time and services.

Sorry for giving you my life story but. The average consumer thinks like this.
1. Look at the price of that gee...
2. Well if I ordered it online I'd have to pay for shipping, and then wait for it.
3. I need it NOW.
4. It's not working, hmm... I could call tech support. But then I have to wait forever!
5. (Sometimes) Let me google it... Oh gee this looks complicated.
6. Alright, I'll just pay someone to do it, rather than spending my time
on the phone with tech support or trying to learn to figure it out.

I've noticed that you have to FORCE people to call tech support, most people don't have the patience to wait on the phone for someone to answer.
And these are the people that call us. You know what, you've inspired me to
just post everything else I was going to write in another post.

I'm not trying to argue with you, just change your perspective like others have helped to change mine. Would I let my mother call someone and pay them $70? Hell no! I'm going to do it for "free" and eat snacks from her pantry and let her serve me dinner!

 

[rbwarp13]

I agree distance is a Big issue - but $70 is a Little unreal

If you go onsite i would say a Std Fee like 45-50 is good just for onsite

Remember the Big Names charge thru the Roof for Onsite support

It also would depends on if they had an internet connection to get the driver or did you have to find it and bring it over for them

Just My 2 Cents

 

[camp.cool007]

Ok, I see what some of you are saying. While I may not agree with everyone's opinion, I respect it. Lets end this thread now. I think I have the popular opinion.