Bounced Check - long story

[layoric]

First time for me

I called a customer to say their laptop was ready (power jack repair and replaced key on keyboard - out of pocket $10 or so). We set up a time to come and pick it up. A few minutes later, I called back telling them since they were only 5 miles away, I could drop it off to their house for them. The guy responsible for payment said fine. We setup the time for actually a few minutes after the phone call.

Once I got there, the people there (family) said they didn't know I was coming. Oi... I said I JUST talked to him a few minutes ago. The lady said she figured the guy probably wanted her to pay for it.

OK by me, who cares who pays.... (thought, not said)

She asked me if I accepted checks, I said yes, with valid ID.

Still holding on to the laptop, I waited in the living room while two teens worked at the table with two other laptops, one smoking (great, now I'm gonna stink). Well, she took a few minutes, brought the check to me with an out of state drivers license, but it was her and her check was from my own bank - however the # of the check showed 94 (but it did have their current address on their, and her name). I wrote down her license # on the check.

The teen girl came out and took the laptop and thanked me for fixing it. We exchanged pleasantries, and I left.

My wife and I had a few things to deposit, so I brought the check to the bank about 1 hour later. The teller said that they do not have sufficient funds in there to cash the check. They gave me back the check, w/o bouncing it on me/her.

We turned the car around, and headed right back to their house.

We BOTH went to the door. As we were going to it, another teen, probably 16 or so (guy), was sitting on something outside, and immediately went inside as we came up. I knocked at the door for a few minutes, at increasing levels of volume. I know I heard the kid talking to someone in there, but when he came to the door, he said he was alone.

I explained to him what happened, that as it stands now, I have not received payment. I then asked for the laptop BACK (pleasantly). He said just a minute, closed the door, came back and said it wasn't there, it was just there, but isn't now (yeah right). I then told him about the problems with getting hold of people with the numbers they gave me. He gave me his number, and said he'd give the information to them later.

SO, I called them back, at the THREE numbers they gave me originally. No one answered any of them. I then called the boy's number, he said he knew that the guy I'm trying to reach was home, that he would call him and tell him I'm trying to reach him. OK...

I wait a few minutes, no call here, so I call the number again to the guy I'm trying to reach. A different person answers than I spoke with prior. She says that the guy and the girl (who wrote the check) is not home. I then restate what the boy told me, she denied it, OK, avoiding arguments, I ask if it is OK for me to come over tomorrow morning to get this all straightened out. Supposedly, it's agreed to.

Ever since I received this laptop from these people, they called me numerous times to ask me when it was going to be done. Each time, I answered, telling them I was waiting on a part to get to me from the mail - however, whoever I spoke with, no one shares info with anyone else, they keep calling from different numbers. HOWEVER, once it was completed, when I tried to call THEM, they never returned my calls, and the ONE time I did get to speak with someone (I believe it was the lady who wrote the check) and told her it was ready, they still never returned my calls. Once I finally had something set up with them to finally finalize the transaction, I was relieved it was going to be over!

OK, since this was the FIRST time it's ever happened to me, I am not sure how to proceed, should this go to the next level, what would the next level be? I have their check, with her license number. I know it's a valid checking account, and I know their address. Since I'm getting STRONG signs that these people have a habit doing this to people, I'm pretty sure they're going to try and screw me over. All signs point to this, as you can see...

This is my guess on what to do next:

• More phone calls/stopping at their house
• Registered/certified collection/non-payment letter
• Small Claims Court
• Collection Agency

What about other things? I'm irritated, so I was thinking of contacting all other local computer repair centers and sharing the deadbeat information. Perhaps putting a sign out in the yard? Maybe something on the website (non-paying customers list).

I don't know... It's a total bill of about $100. I'm DEFINITELY not going to just let it go/roll over. Even if it turns in to a no-show small claims court, it's the principle.

Also, I've been thinking of NOT ACCEPTING CHECKS for the future, just to avoid this. I accept checks all the time, only just started checking ID's too. How can I avoid this in the future? Install a "kill switch" on their systems, that I can initiate a termination of the computer system should their payment go sour?

What do you do to avoid this situation with checks?

Thanks for any help - if you can't offer ideas or help, just thanks for listening!

 

[vdub12]

I would go to the bank every few days and try and cash it. They are bound to have money in there eventually. Also make sure it posts NSF on there account when it does bounce that way they get charged every time you try and cash it. At some point it will be cheaper to just pay you. Especially if the NSF fee is over $20 like it is with most banks. I would also charge her a service charge for your time and having to deal with this.

 

[callthatgirl]

I would almost say scrap the $100 and just move on. You charge half that an hour and to put 2 hours into getting it, doesn't make sense. Plus think of all the time you will put into it being angry. I had to fight a $245 bill many years ago, I won with the credit card company. It was a fight I needed to win because my client was just an A$$.

But for $100, I would not chase it that hard, not do anything to them, they are not going to care if you black list them. They will find a guy off Craigs to deal with.

I recommend for hardware repair, you get a down payment prior to work being down. That will help to secure the work/parts.

I upp'd my rates last year a bit on some office work and am doing so again here in Sept with my remote work due to how fast I am getting with repairs. I am also starting a no checks policy for all new clients, only past clients. It's not hard to have folks pay with a credit card as almost everyone has one. If not, they can pay with a check and wait then, you have POLICIES created for a reason. Make them follow and you will be happier.

I like what Vdub has to say too

 

[MrUnknown]

You do have legal ground if you want to persue it, it is called theft of services. They are trying to get out of paying for it and have stolen that value from you.

 

[vdub12]

You do have legal ground if you want to persue it, it is called theft of services. They are trying to get out of paying for it and have stolen that value from you.

Also I worked at a computer store once that would forward bounced checks to the Districts Attorney's Office. There where many people that came in months later saying that they got a letter from the DA and they want to make it right. Its quick and easy to do just contact the DA's office and ask them who handles check fraud and then every time you get a bounced check send it to them.

 

[Xander]

I'd consider charging them with writing a bad cheque and theft of services.

I also favour Vdub's idea of trying to cash it every few days, especially since it's your own bank and it sounds like you're on good terms with them.

 

[Hooked]

Just a thought

You might want to consider how public perception of you might change if you have a reputation for going to the mat with people over $100< bills. Unless you're charging minimum wage, the time it takes to pursue a small court claim or criminal claim will be worth more.

I would just look at it this way: you are the professional. Cooler heads must prevail. Sticking to your principles is fine, to a point - beyond that, your honor turns into frivolity. You should decide right now how much time you want to put into claiming it. 6 hours? 10 hours?

At that point, unless you are close, you should just call it a bad asset and put the people on a blacklist. Even if you go to small claims court, and win the $100 dollars, I highly doubt a judge is going to issue a warrant on someone for that amount of money. And if they don't have the money, do you think a judge is going to order assets liquidated for it? And if, by some combination of miracle and shoe polish you get the money, I highly doubt you will have actually gained anything. The hours spent, the amount stressed, the bridges burned, it just doesn't seem worth it.

To be quite honest, I think you handled the situation wrong from the start. First, it seems clear that you dislike/look down upon the client. If your reservations are valid, such as them being poor, (which does not reflect upon their character, but may reflect on their ability to pay you) or they conduct themselves in uncivilized manners, why are they your clients in the first place?

Secondly, you have the check and you go to deposit it and it gets declined. Why would your first instinct be to potentially provoke a confrontation on their doorstep, with your wife no less? At that moment, you had no legal right to that laptop and you were, in all honesty, quite lucky that you were dealing with a pushover teenager that didn't know what to do. These characters were/are seemingly unsavory, why risk your or your wife's safety over a hundred dollar payday?

Next, why do you decide to start conducting business with this teenager? To me, that screams unprofessional. You know he's inside talking to someone when he denied it (whom might be getting a weapon at this point). You know where these people live, and you have their (purported) phone numbers. Why not simply end contact at that point and contact the police, or better yet, not assume your clientèle are dirtbags and assume they intend to pay you at some point in the future?

I would certainly not recommend stopping by the residence again. All contact with these people should be done through intermediaries such as the police or council. You're inviting a shotgun to the face if you try to collect in person again.

I don't mean to pass judgment, you were only trying to get what you rightfully deserve, but logic must prevail. If you were to talk to an accountant about the issue, he might refer you to the practice many businesses have of setting aside a certain amount of money, typically 1% of all money the business was owed on account from the previous year, and saying "this won't be paid to us." Perhaps you should just assume that a certain amount of debtors won't pay you so it lessens the blow when you next come across this situation.

This whole problem seems to stem from a preconceived notion of theoretical ownership. Unless something is in your hand, you don't own it. Unless you have an enforced court order saying so, you don't own it. It's dangerous to assume that, just because in theory someone owes you something, you are going to get it.

Just sayin'.

 

[iisjman07]

Send them letters and visit everyday (at different times so they don't get wise) and demand payment. If they don't then sue them or something

 

[vdub12]

You might want to consider how public perception of you might change if you have a reputation for going to the mat with people over $100< bills. Unless you're charging minimum wage, the time it takes to pursue a small court claim or criminal claim will be worth more.

I would just look at it this way: you are the professional. Cooler heads must prevail. Sticking to your principles is fine, to a point - beyond that, your honor turns into frivolity. You should decide right now how much time you want to put into claiming it. 6 hours? 10 hours?

At that point, unless you are close, you should just call it a bad asset and put the people on a blacklist. Even if you go to small claims court, and win the $100 dollars, I highly doubt a judge is going to issue a warrant on someone for that amount of money. And if they don't have the money, do you think a judge is going to order assets liquidated for it? And if, by some combination of miracle and shoe polish you get the money, I highly doubt you will have actually gained anything. The hours spent, the amount stressed, the bridges burned, it just doesn't seem worth it.

To be quite honest, I think you handled the situation wrong from the start. First, it seems clear that you dislike/look down upon the client. If your reservations are valid, such as them being poor, (which does not reflect upon their character, but may reflect on their ability to pay you) or they conduct themselves in uncivilized manners, why are they your clients in the first place?

Secondly, you have the check and you go to deposit it and it gets declined. Why would your first instinct be to potentially provoke a confrontation on their doorstep, with your wife no less? At that moment, you had no legal right to that laptop and you were, in all honesty, quite lucky that you were dealing with a pushover teenager that didn't know what to do. These characters were/are seemingly unsavory, why risk your or your wife's safety over a hundred dollar payday?

Next, why do you decide to start conducting business with this teenager? To me, that screams unprofessional. You know he's inside talking to someone when he denied it (whom might be getting a weapon at this point). You know where these people live, and you have their (purported) phone numbers. Why not simply end contact at that point and contact the police, or better yet, not assume your clientèle are dirtbags and assume they intend to pay you at some point in the future?

I would certainly not recommend stopping by the residence again. All contact with these people should be done through intermediaries such as the police or council. You're inviting a shotgun to the face if you try to collect in person again.

I don't mean to pass judgment, you were only trying to get what you rightfully deserve, but logic must prevail. If you were to talk to an accountant about the issue, he might refer you to the practice many businesses have of setting aside a certain amount of money, typically 1% of all money the business was owed on account from the previous year, and saying "this won't be paid to us." Perhaps you should just assume that a certain amount of debtors won't pay you so it lessens the blow when you next come across this situation.

This whole problem seems to stem from a preconceived notion of theoretical ownership. Unless something is in your hand, you don't own it. Unless you have an enforced court order saying so, you don't own it. It's dangerous to assume that, just because in theory someone owes you something, you are going to get it.

Just sayin'.

You know my accountant has me keep track of lost hours so I can write them off. It might be easier to just get paid by the IRS at the end of the year.

 

[JustMe]

so I brought the check to the bank about 1 hour later.

I always provide the courtesy of waiting until the next day to deposit the checks I receive.

Another thing is I only deal with the customer who I've been in contact with. The same one I got the computer from. The one who I call to give status and arrange for pickup or delivery.

If he was not present, I would have said "Thank you" and "Goodbye" and taken the equipment back with me. I want his signature on my forms acknowledging the return and condition of his equipment. And to avoid any problems with a third party like this incident.

Send them letters and visit everyday (at different times so they don't get wise) and demand payment.

I seriously hope you won't consider doing this. With this kind of harassment you can expect a shotgun to the face.

 

[Hooked]

You know my accountant has me keep track of lost hours so I can write them off. It might be easier to just get paid by the IRS at the end of the year.

I'm not sure what the difference between our respective understandings of "writing off" is. Going off an accounting course I took in high school (which clearly makes me an expert on the field), a debt, which is only a debt if it's on account (otherwise you've already been paid) can either be collectible or uncollectible. If it is the latter, you write off the account as unpayable and just agree to not pay taxes on it. I didn't know you could get a deduction or whatever you are talking about for it.

Although if you can deduct that (would it be an expense?) I would certainly not recommend pursuing collecting the account if your taxes will just reflect the lost income during tax season.

 

[layoric]

Thanks for all the replies thus far.

As far as writing it off, thanks but no thanks. The word can spread for that as well, and that's not what I want going around, that I'll just roll over when confronted with such a problem. Plus, when I don't have another job, why not pursue it? It's not like I'm going to go after this when I have other stuff sitting in line waiting to get done.

Hooked -

I think you handled the situation wrong from the start. First, it seems clear that you dislike/look down upon the client.

Only once I got the run-around.

Why would your first instinct be to potentially provoke a confrontation on their doorstep, with your wife no less?

It is our business! 2nd, I brought it there in person. I've talked with them in person. Why not stop by and talk with them in person again? You make it sound like I showed up at their doorstep kicking and screaming
Along this same response, I've noticed that many people can perceive all sorts of things through text on a page, be it email or blogs/what have you.

Next, why do you decide to start conducting business with this teenager?

I deal with families all the time. One person drops it off, another picks it up. Same thing happens in stores. Hell, you can pickup someone else's prescription if you have the information.

Also, if a weapon is pulled, obviously that's assault with a deadly weapon. What ever gave you that idea that someone would do that? Have the police deal with them? As far as I know, they wouldn't care about such a thing unless you have some sort of court order and they had to enforce it - but not assuming anything on my part, I'll check into that.

JustMe -

Another thing is I only deal with the customer who I've been in contact with. The same one I got the computer from. The one who I call to give status and arrange for pickup or delivery.

I'm considering changing this policy to something as per above. Just more stuff to keep track of though... Perhaps some sort of claim check, and w/o the original person verifying it, if you have the ticket you can get the item?

callthatgirl -

I recommend for hardware repair, you get a down payment prior to work being down. That will help to secure the work/parts.

Great suggestion! Since I charge one hour minimum anyway, perhaps getting that up front would alleviate issues or some of them anyhow.

eHousecalls.ca -

I'd consider charging them with writing a bad cheque and theft of services.

I also favour Vdub's idea of trying to cash it every few days, especially since it's your own bank and it sounds like you're on good terms with them.

My first order today before trying to visit them, is to stop at the bank and ask what the best course of action will be for this situation.

When this happened, although we turned right-around back to their residence, I was irritated, but not mad. Actually, I'm not mad about it (although I have the icon showing it). Frankly, this whole thing CAN be thought of as a learning experience. For one thing, I'd rather it happen the first time on a smaller bill, and not HUNDREDS of dollars! Secondly, it's good this occurred before I get more busy when the phone book ad comes out. This whole thing provides me with opportunities to fine tune my policies and better protect myself for future transactions.

This is a small neighborhood, of about 4,000 people or so, I believe. So when the gossipers start chatting, I'd rather be known as someone who gets paid for their work. If this customer is in that crowd, the only thing they'd be spreading about me is the fact that THEY didn't pay - not about shoddy work, because the nature of the repair is that it either works, or it doesn't.

I'll let you know the outcome though. Whether I never get paid or what, as I stated above, I'll be at the very least changing some policies and ways of the initial transaction.

 

[vdub12]

I'm not sure what the difference between our respective understandings of "writing off" is. Going off an accounting course I took in high school (which clearly makes me an expert on the field), a debt, which is only a debt if it's on account (otherwise you've already been paid) can either be collectible or uncollectible. If it is the latter, you write off the account as unpayable and just agree to not pay taxes on it. I didn't know you could get a deduction or whatever you are talking about for it.

Although if you can deduct that (would it be an expense?) I would certainly not recommend pursuing collecting the account if your taxes will just reflect the lost income during tax season.

I'm not sure about all the rules but the way I figure it I operate a service business so when I do something that I do not get paid for then I am loosing my primary product, my time. Just like how a retail store will write off shrinkage I consider it the same.

When I brought it up to my accountant she told me to keep a log of my hours that I loose and if we need them we can use them. Not sure what that means but I have a spread sheet going.

 

[Hooked]

Hooked -
Only once I got the run-around.

It is our business! 2nd, I brought it there in person. I've talked with them in person. Why not stop by and talk with them in person again? You make it sound like I showed up at their doorstep kicking and screaming
Along this same response, I've noticed that many people can perceive all sorts of things through text on a page, be it email or blogs/what have you.

I deal with families all the time. One person drops it off, another picks it up. Same thing happens in stores. Hell, you can pickup someone else's prescription if you have the information.

OK, it sounds like I misinterpreted the situation. But you said that these people clearly looked like they did this often, so what impression did you want us to get? ;D

Also, if a weapon is pulled, obviously that's assault with a deadly weapon.
This is a small neighborhood, of about 4,000 people or so, I believe. So when the gossipers start chatting, I'd rather be known as someone who gets paid for their work. If this customer is in that crowd, the only thing they'd be spreading about me is the fact that THEY didn't pay - not about shoddy work, because the nature of the repair is that it either works, or it doesn't.

You're assuming that these people are honest, and if they are dishonest enough to cheat you on your work they are dishonest enough to slander and libel you. And it's extremely hard to prove, especially when it comes to gossip (they can claim misinterpretations happened, as above), so the law isn't exactly a good defense here.

 

[Corbin]

You guys are taking this to far for the most take the advice of the people who say just let it roll off. Try the check a second time if it does not go through foreward it to the DAs office leave it at that. If you spend all your time fighting for it then you will end up loosing more money and time. Going to the house in person is never a good idea with stuff like this, what if they shoot you? You know they are being scum you don't need to start being a scum, this is your first and may not be your last situation like this. When you go on the attack like this for just $100 this shows what kind of tech you are.

Maybe call and ask if a payment option is better let them know you shredded the check but you would take cash instead, and take $25 a week, have them sign a legal agreement to pay. That is if $100 is that important.

 

[Cerberus LLC]

Rinse...Repeat

If you wanted to persue it, I would check with my bank every morning. Especially around the 1st of the month. I'm sure they have either social security and or disability checks coming in. That is probably the smartest way. It may take some time but eventually they will have money hit their account. I fee bad for you but as Kenny Rogers said..."you got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em, know when to walk away, when the dealins done" I hope you get your money somehow. I would also make real sure that those faces in that house and that address is well documented for not doing business with them in the future...unless they pre-pay. No need to suffer again and they would probably try to take advantage knowing they will get away with it.

 

[vdub12]

you got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em, know when to walk away, Know when to RUN!!!!

 

[layoric]

OK, it sounds like I misinterpreted the situation. But you said that these people clearly looked like they did this often, so what impression did you want us to get? ;D

OH, see, that's how I talk sometimes. When I said looked like I just meant that in a way of the whole situation seemed to point to that eventuality.

 

[layoric]

I did get hold of the lady in person this morning, finally. I knocked for a long time at the door too (10:40 or so AM). I already got the OK to go over in person, as I spoke with her on the phone the night before and she said it was OK.

SO, I heard people clearly talking inside, and heard someone's at the door. More minutes went by...

I said something through the door/window such as could you answer the door please? This is just a small family business, why are you doing this? Well, no one came to the door... So, I went next door to see if a neighbor knew them or something. As I was knocking at the door, I saw the lady I was trying to speak with fiddle with a fan in a window. I called her name out, and she said she didn't hear me at the door. Oh well, whatever...

Next I explained to her, again (just as on the night before) that the check was returned to me with insufficient funds. She was surprised. I explained that the way it stands, I have not been paid for the work done. Then a girl who was there when they brought the laptop to our place initially, came in, laughing... I'll assume not at me.

Well, after pleasantries, she said she'd call the bank on Monday to try and straighten it out. OK, so I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, perhaps with the 5 or six phone numbers I've been given by them, and all the people they have coming and going there, they just plain don't share info with one another. Maybe it's just that they're bad with a checkbook. I don't know the reason. All I know is that I'm getting the run-around, we're not rich, and $100 may seem like not a lot to some, but it is to us.

Oh, and I spoke with a bank representative. She told me that this check was a starter check (yay). It didn't look like that to me, but apparently it is. She said I could keep calling to check to see if their are sufficient funds in there to cash it yet, even every day if I wanted to.

As was said before, whatever the outcome, I've learned from this immensely, both in my direct contact with them, and through all correspondence here. Even what seemed like bad comments toward me, I count it all as constructive criticism, and appreciate the time you all took to provide your feedback.

Layoric

 

[Appleby]

Layoric,

I'm going to be honest with you, I feel your pain. However, I feel you are over reacting. Even if you aren't mad, I don't think you are handling this incident like any other business I've ever heard of. I've never written a hot check but I can't imagine that it's common practice to go back to the people's home, multiple times, to try and collect the money. I don't care if you'd previously been to their house or not. I've hot a few hot checks written to me over the years but I've eventually cashed every single one of them once the funds were available.

I mean no offense, but my personal opinion is that you acting in an unprofessional and desperate manner in an attempt to get $100 immediately from a group of people that don't have $100 to give you. As we say here in East Texas, "You can't get blood from a turnip."lol

If they don't have $100 in cash to pay you with, then non-stop phone calls, endless knocks on the door and weird random visits with their neighbors is not going to get you paid any sooner than handling this like most other small business owners.

My advice is to continue talking with the bank. Being that the check is from your bank, I think this is an even easier situation to handle. The next time you check to see if the funds are in their account, ask the teller if there is a certain time of the month or week that it looks like the funds might be available. Don't ask to many specifics, the laws vary, but the info you can find out is usually very limited. However, I have had a teller whisper to me "Come back around the 15th...." Okie dokie! Waited a week, went back and BAM check was good.

Look, I agree, they are deadbeats and they are NOT handling this situation correctly. While I don't agree with your tactics, the right thing for them to do would be to say "Wow that check was bad? I'm SO sorry, hang on, here is $100." or "Let me call the bank and move money to that account." So yes they are trying to cheat you, but it could simply be because they are broke. That doesn't make it ok, but it sure does make it harder for you to get paid and in-person visits and phone calls don't change that.