Altster
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What was the original post about?
I've lost track.
I've lost track.
Bernie Sanders is only candidate that opposes CISA
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ohio_grad_06
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You may very well be right, no need to hurry the process along though lol.
seedubya
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Since this thread HAS gone completely off track - we need completely new economic models. Our consumption driven model is completely incompatible with any kind of husbandry of resources. We need to stop consuming endlessly. It's unsustainable. We will literally consume ourselves out of existence (along with most other species) if we continue on our current trajectory. It's not a matter of left or right politics, it's a matter of survival.
Krynn72
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He doesn't have any. Trump as president would be the biggest disgrace in American history. I'd sooner re-elect George W. But Trump isn't a real candidate, I guarantee you he's just in this for the popularity and he'll drop out when its actually time to get serious. Given the current line-up of Republicans, the next president will certainly be another Democrat, and I hope for Sanders.
ohio_grad_06
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I certainly hope no democrat gets in. I think another democrat in the white house would be a disaster. It might take 20 years to undo the last 8.
In regards to economic model, I don't agree. I do agree that it can't hurt to look at alternate sources. As far as cars for example and other goods, I'm sure more recycling could be done. They say we are the Saudi Arabia of coal. Supposedly they have such a thing as clean coal.
Anyway, from what I've read, they say in ww2 that the Germans were desperate for fuel and began refining coal into oil/fuel. Why not tap that natural resource in the United States as well as other oil sources as they have started doing, and use the time that buys to look for alternate fuel sources.
If you want to stop climate change, considering you believe that exists at all, you would have to convince China and India to adopt at least some environmental regulations. Or you probably aren't going to be too effective.
I don't think changing economic models is the answer but you could offer incentives to companies to act a certain way.
In regards to economic model, I don't agree. I do agree that it can't hurt to look at alternate sources. As far as cars for example and other goods, I'm sure more recycling could be done. They say we are the Saudi Arabia of coal. Supposedly they have such a thing as clean coal.
Anyway, from what I've read, they say in ww2 that the Germans were desperate for fuel and began refining coal into oil/fuel. Why not tap that natural resource in the United States as well as other oil sources as they have started doing, and use the time that buys to look for alternate fuel sources.
If you want to stop climate change, considering you believe that exists at all, you would have to convince China and India to adopt at least some environmental regulations. Or you probably aren't going to be too effective.
I don't think changing economic models is the answer but you could offer incentives to companies to act a certain way.
Trump is not Presidential material. We need a diplomatic statesmen with a voice of reason and compassion. He's a spoiled, rich kid who lives in a gilded, ivory tower who never had to get his hands dirty. He's so arrogant he probably already drew up plans to remodel the White House to reflect his over the top personality. Giant, gold letters sprawled across the dome replete with a laser light show broadcasting his moniker for all to see. The rooms festooned with garish furnishings. I'd bet he'd commission a gaudy statue of himself to replace the one that currently resides in the Lincoln Memorial!
How can he empathize with the 99% when he's never ate off a hot plate at the Green Hotel? When cornered by tough questions he lashes out like Pee Wee Herman. "I know you are but what am I." His ad hominem attacks and public sparring are childish and immature. Hell, so am I but I'm not running for Prez.
As far as another Dem in the WH I'm not thrilled either. They are too centrist for me. I usually vote Green or another third party but Bernie isn't the typical Dem and gets my vote.
Still, the D's have done more for this country than the R's. I and millions of others now have health insurance. No more pre-existing conditions nonsense which made it impossible for me and ms m to get health coverage. It's not single payer but it's a start. The price of gas is half what the GOP claimed it would be under Obama. We cut our oil imports by well over one half by increasing domestic production. The DOW is up well over 50%. I know, these are just silly facts.
I just can't bring myself to vote for the science denying crowd that kowtows to the plutocrats, just like too many D's, and who want to legislate their version of morality.
Incoming!
How can he empathize with the 99% when he's never ate off a hot plate at the Green Hotel? When cornered by tough questions he lashes out like Pee Wee Herman. "I know you are but what am I." His ad hominem attacks and public sparring are childish and immature. Hell, so am I but I'm not running for Prez.
As far as another Dem in the WH I'm not thrilled either. They are too centrist for me. I usually vote Green or another third party but Bernie isn't the typical Dem and gets my vote.
Still, the D's have done more for this country than the R's. I and millions of others now have health insurance. No more pre-existing conditions nonsense which made it impossible for me and ms m to get health coverage. It's not single payer but it's a start. The price of gas is half what the GOP claimed it would be under Obama. We cut our oil imports by well over one half by increasing domestic production. The DOW is up well over 50%. I know, these are just silly facts.
I just can't bring myself to vote for the science denying crowd that kowtows to the plutocrats, just like too many D's, and who want to legislate their version of morality.
Incoming!
ohio_grad_06
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Don't like the idea of single payer. You should not be forced to purchase insurance just to live.
Price of gas half of what it was before before in my opinion is in spite of the democrats. They've tried to put more regulations on coal etc to make that harder to do so I would not say democrats are responsible, more like business men who saw opportunity.
Democrats today are nowhere near centrist imo. Bill Clinton in the 90s was, but these people today, no, way to far left. And something I read the other day I read something that Hillary said she would be ok with a gun control situation like Australia, which was at least partial confiscation. This is America, not Australia.
As far as Bernie, he may mean well, but saw something that said all that he wants to do would cost 18 trillion. Where we going to get that type of money?
To me, government is here to serve people. The last thing the government needs to be doing is legislating more taxes and fees for entitlement programs. I know some people need help, I get that and have no problem with helping people.
The people I get annoyed with are people who game the system, some may be undocumented immigrants, but then there are other people who are citizens who don't seem interested in working.
My wife is in real estate and had a story of someone who was renting and every month would get money from the community here to help with their rent. But then same person went out and bought a frivolous item for over 500 dollars. Ok you have money for that but not to pay your rent? I just get irritated with people sometimes, yet oh let's enable everyone. I don't want to be dependent on the government for anything anymore than I have to be. Why be dependent on government to hold people's hand for them? If people would learn to try to take responsibility for their own actions this country may not be in the shape it is. I'm only 34, and I know there are a lot of great young people, but it seems like there are a lot of younger people who are content to let others take care of everything for them. Not the way things work.
Price of gas half of what it was before before in my opinion is in spite of the democrats. They've tried to put more regulations on coal etc to make that harder to do so I would not say democrats are responsible, more like business men who saw opportunity.
Democrats today are nowhere near centrist imo. Bill Clinton in the 90s was, but these people today, no, way to far left. And something I read the other day I read something that Hillary said she would be ok with a gun control situation like Australia, which was at least partial confiscation. This is America, not Australia.
As far as Bernie, he may mean well, but saw something that said all that he wants to do would cost 18 trillion. Where we going to get that type of money?
To me, government is here to serve people. The last thing the government needs to be doing is legislating more taxes and fees for entitlement programs. I know some people need help, I get that and have no problem with helping people.
The people I get annoyed with are people who game the system, some may be undocumented immigrants, but then there are other people who are citizens who don't seem interested in working.
My wife is in real estate and had a story of someone who was renting and every month would get money from the community here to help with their rent. But then same person went out and bought a frivolous item for over 500 dollars. Ok you have money for that but not to pay your rent? I just get irritated with people sometimes, yet oh let's enable everyone. I don't want to be dependent on the government for anything anymore than I have to be. Why be dependent on government to hold people's hand for them? If people would learn to try to take responsibility for their own actions this country may not be in the shape it is. I'm only 34, and I know there are a lot of great young people, but it seems like there are a lot of younger people who are content to let others take care of everything for them. Not the way things work.
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Krynn72
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Do you consider education and healthcare to be such BS entitlement programs? Do you consider a healthy and sustainable planet a BS entitlement?
Then get annoyed at them, not the whole system. Most aid programs primarily help the people who do, honestly and truly need it.
Frankly Bernie seems like the only one who would be at least trying to help America catch up to other countries who are kicking our asses in terms of high economic, social, and ethical standards. Most of the "radical" and "revolutionary" ideas he has are already successfully implemented in many countries that love the programs and benefit from them greatly already. The fact that we even consider them revolutionary reveals the sad state of affairs we are in presently.
ohio_grad_06
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Education, that is why we have public schools. Now granted I think college is much to expensive so they should work on getting that down. But we should not provide education for undocumented immigrants at all imo. Healthcare, there has to be a better way than the plan passed 5 years ago.
We should worry about getting government out of the way and giving businesses incentives to stay out of the way.
As for climate change, I saw something on history a few years back where they were talking about little ice age and almost attacked the idea of climate change saying who do we really think we are that we have that much influence on things, so I really don't know that I think climate change is totally all it's cracked up to be. Even if it is, until you get countries like India and China on board you probably won't accomplish much there anyway.
As far as other countries, I don't really care as much what other countries are doing. Our forefathers fought the war of independence to break away, not become more like others. And how much of those people's incomes probably goes to government?
Want to talk entitlement look at Greece. Enough said. Don't want our country looking like that.
As far as climate change here is a quick read for you. Guess even the co founder of the weather channel has his doubts.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/clari...rming-not-real-claims-weather-channel-founder
We should worry about getting government out of the way and giving businesses incentives to stay out of the way.
As for climate change, I saw something on history a few years back where they were talking about little ice age and almost attacked the idea of climate change saying who do we really think we are that we have that much influence on things, so I really don't know that I think climate change is totally all it's cracked up to be. Even if it is, until you get countries like India and China on board you probably won't accomplish much there anyway.
As far as other countries, I don't really care as much what other countries are doing. Our forefathers fought the war of independence to break away, not become more like others. And how much of those people's incomes probably goes to government?
Want to talk entitlement look at Greece. Enough said. Don't want our country looking like that.
As far as climate change here is a quick read for you. Guess even the co founder of the weather channel has his doubts.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/clari...rming-not-real-claims-weather-channel-founder
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Did our forefathers also fight the war of Independence so we could remain uneducated and stupid, rather than take advantage of the successful work others have done?
Re Greece: Google Greek tax collection, also google Greek government corruption. "Enough said."
Climate Change? Google the sources mentioned in that article, and READ a few of the ressults, then think about what you've read, and see if you still feel the same way. From my point of view, almost all the worlds' scientists agree that we need to do something, versu about 10 people with enough credentials to show that they at least have an education. Easy calculation for me. Similar to the vaccine flap. I believe the scientists.
Do you know what cognitive dissonance means?
Rick
phaZed
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ohio_grad_06,
It would behoove you to do your own research as it is clear you have done none. I don't want that to be taken as a put-down or a slam.. really, I find you to be very intelligent.. but on the subject matter at hand you are dangerously ignorant. That's not to say you're not welcome to draw your own conclusions.. but your "facts" aren't facts and IMO if you did have the facts you wouldn't be on the side you're on. 10 minutes for yourself and you can clear up each of your points and see that at best they are just wrong and at worst, irrelevant talking points on Fox News (Which isn't a news agency - As Fox claims they are not. The are an entertainment channel).
Greece a bunch of lazy people getting handouts? Sorry, you're entirely incorrect and I'm sorry, but that is one of the most ignorant things I have heard. The Greeks have a corrupt political system just like the Republican party is building/ has built here.. that is why they defaulted.. the MP's and leadership stole all the money! Lots of taxpayer money went into "defense spending" for national security (Republican Idea). Spending on security is always net-negative.. not productive, therefore, never a return on investment. Was Greece under attack or worried about attack? No. Most of the money lined (very few) the politicians pockets.
AHHHHHHHHHHHH, I scream at you! AHHHHHHHHHH I scream some more... 'cause your heart is in the right place.. you don't want the US to be Greece? Then don't vote republican because they're doing exactly the same things as the Greek gov did! AHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! Do your research! This is easy stuff to see/find out. I swear.
http://www.gla.ac.uk/schools/business/aspire/issue11springsummer2012/whydidgreecegobankrupt/
A quick Google search would produce you the income figures you ask. The US Individual Tax rate is the 5th highest in the world (Behind, Belgium, Finland, Sweden and Aruba)... so, what's your point again? On paper, our corporate tax rate is the 3rd highest in the world (Behind Cameroon and Japan), yet the effective tax on most corporations is around 0%-3% because they are using loopholes and stashing their cash in havens... So, next time your mad at YOUR personal tax rate, know this... your tax rate could be literally more than half-off if corporations paid their fair share of taxes.. but the Republicans think we're "trickling down" (Stupid Idea, already tried in history and fails EVERYTIME).. so go ahead, vote against yourself so the richest 1% can get even more record breaking profits while the country's people can muddle through at historic lows. All these other countries seem to be taking care of their populous and thriving/advancing... all at a lower tax rate... hmmm. Your premise just doesn't add up bud.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates
On a separate note, China. Much of China's pollution could have been avoided, but we needed cheaper goods because the standard of living in the US wasn't rising. This is how "we" can afford things in a corrupt system, by quickly developing an underdeveloped nation quickly. This is "dirty" because the country is unaware of industrial pollution or the methods to handle it. Also, power plants and other supporting infrastructure needs to be built to meet insane growth... this means (very) unclean power generation and production. China is already changing and becoming more expensive/more proactive on the environment.
As far as Climate Change, SMH.
Again, think whatever you want.. but please for the love of your country don't vote on what you think... vote on what you know. If you don't know, don't vote.
It would behoove you to do your own research as it is clear you have done none. I don't want that to be taken as a put-down or a slam.. really, I find you to be very intelligent.. but on the subject matter at hand you are dangerously ignorant. That's not to say you're not welcome to draw your own conclusions.. but your "facts" aren't facts and IMO if you did have the facts you wouldn't be on the side you're on. 10 minutes for yourself and you can clear up each of your points and see that at best they are just wrong and at worst, irrelevant talking points on Fox News (Which isn't a news agency - As Fox claims they are not. The are an entertainment channel).
Greece a bunch of lazy people getting handouts? Sorry, you're entirely incorrect and I'm sorry, but that is one of the most ignorant things I have heard. The Greeks have a corrupt political system just like the Republican party is building/ has built here.. that is why they defaulted.. the MP's and leadership stole all the money! Lots of taxpayer money went into "defense spending" for national security (Republican Idea). Spending on security is always net-negative.. not productive, therefore, never a return on investment. Was Greece under attack or worried about attack? No. Most of the money lined (very few) the politicians pockets.
AHHHHHHHHHHHH, I scream at you! AHHHHHHHHHH I scream some more... 'cause your heart is in the right place.. you don't want the US to be Greece? Then don't vote republican because they're doing exactly the same things as the Greek gov did! AHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! Do your research! This is easy stuff to see/find out. I swear.
http://www.gla.ac.uk/schools/business/aspire/issue11springsummer2012/whydidgreecegobankrupt/
Really? I always thought the "War of Independence" (That's not the name of the war, BTW.. it was the "American Revolutionary War" in 1775-1776) was fought for our Independence. But what's in a name? That has nothing to do with social policy or being or not being like other countries... we fought to not be controlled by the British; taxation without representation. That's it. Oh, also, our forefathers were just fine with British rule and we were a bunch of British colonies for over 165 years... so don't give me this forefather crap as if they meant to do it and America was built to be independent from the start. It was very much an accident that we became our own country.
A quick Google search would produce you the income figures you ask. The US Individual Tax rate is the 5th highest in the world (Behind, Belgium, Finland, Sweden and Aruba)... so, what's your point again? On paper, our corporate tax rate is the 3rd highest in the world (Behind Cameroon and Japan), yet the effective tax on most corporations is around 0%-3% because they are using loopholes and stashing their cash in havens... So, next time your mad at YOUR personal tax rate, know this... your tax rate could be literally more than half-off if corporations paid their fair share of taxes.. but the Republicans think we're "trickling down" (Stupid Idea, already tried in history and fails EVERYTIME).. so go ahead, vote against yourself so the richest 1% can get even more record breaking profits while the country's people can muddle through at historic lows. All these other countries seem to be taking care of their populous and thriving/advancing... all at a lower tax rate... hmmm. Your premise just doesn't add up bud.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates
Backwards thinking. It's easy to get China and India on board. Here's what you do... stop buying everything from them. Place trade tariffs on them, etc until they come into compliance. I'm sorry, which party here in the US have been the outspoken ones for offshoring everything and lifting trade tariffs? Oh, the Republicans. SO you can thank YOUR party for the loss of much of our manufacturing sector and jobs relating. The Democrats can rightfully get a lot of blame here too (Obama, Clinton), but were by no means the harbingers of those policies.
On a separate note, China. Much of China's pollution could have been avoided, but we needed cheaper goods because the standard of living in the US wasn't rising. This is how "we" can afford things in a corrupt system, by quickly developing an underdeveloped nation quickly. This is "dirty" because the country is unaware of industrial pollution or the methods to handle it. Also, power plants and other supporting infrastructure needs to be built to meet insane growth... this means (very) unclean power generation and production. China is already changing and becoming more expensive/more proactive on the environment.
As far as Climate Change, SMH.
Again, think whatever you want.. but please for the love of your country don't vote on what you think... vote on what you know. If you don't know, don't vote.
ohio_grad_06
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I know what that means. I guess my feeling is this, even if climate change is an issue, climate change is not nearly as important as other things as are going on in this country and this world.
As a Christian I'm not looking long term at the world. If you look at prophecy it looks as though a lot of things are lining up.
On one side you have Iran already possibly violating the nuclear deal they just signed, there were just pictures of an underground bunker with a lot of mobile launchers on cnn and fox news within the last week or so. And they have been saying for years they want to wipe Israel off the map. What I am saying is that if Iran gets hold of a nuclear weapon and would think to use it, climate change is the last of this world's worries. I can guarantee you that Israel would not stand for it. Those people if you research they are some of the best in the world when it comes to fighting and combat. If you look up things about the 6 day war, in my mind there's not any doubt that God fights for them. They fought off at least 2-3 larger countries and later ended up giving back land they had taken.
On another hand you have Russia in Syria fighting isis supposedly. But you've got officials saying they may even be targeting people our country is supporting. They are making nice now but seems to me done kind of incident between a US/asked plane and a Russian plane could be all it takes to start a larger conflict.
I works have to look it up but I think the Bible says something to the effect of Syria being laid waste. Sadly enough, look at that poor country. What is it, 250,000+ have died already? People are leaving in droves. Sounds like being laid waste to me sad to say.
As far as the question of did our forefathers fight so we could build on what others had built, I would say they did not that. Did they want people to be stupid? If course not. But didn't Washington himself warn about not getting involved with Europe?
Our forefathers fought because they wanted to free. They fought because they wanted to govern themselves, and because they felt their rights were being trampled. They fought for the idea you could be or do what you wanted at least within reason, if you wanted to be educated, wonderful. If you wanted to be dumb as a box of rocks, you had that right. Would they want people to be dumb? No. But I don't think that they would want the government to legislate all these programs, including education and saddle them on the backs of tax payers. In fact I don't think they introduced an income tax until the civil war, then repealed that 10 years later when the war was over.
So these things may be needful, and I agree maybe government should be able to regulate within reason, so as to avoid corruption, but that the free market should be the one to do these things, not the government. It seems that whenever government gets involved in things that they tend to either do to much, or not enough and that they make a mess that they end up having to try to clean up later, and in the process waste a lot of taxpayer money. Which what is the debt at now, 17 trillion? Think we need to work on that more than climate change to our we could be like greece. I admit I don't know that much about Greece's government etc, but it seems that many times bills you read about in our government have to many extras added onto them.
As a Christian I'm not looking long term at the world. If you look at prophecy it looks as though a lot of things are lining up.
On one side you have Iran already possibly violating the nuclear deal they just signed, there were just pictures of an underground bunker with a lot of mobile launchers on cnn and fox news within the last week or so. And they have been saying for years they want to wipe Israel off the map. What I am saying is that if Iran gets hold of a nuclear weapon and would think to use it, climate change is the last of this world's worries. I can guarantee you that Israel would not stand for it. Those people if you research they are some of the best in the world when it comes to fighting and combat. If you look up things about the 6 day war, in my mind there's not any doubt that God fights for them. They fought off at least 2-3 larger countries and later ended up giving back land they had taken.
On another hand you have Russia in Syria fighting isis supposedly. But you've got officials saying they may even be targeting people our country is supporting. They are making nice now but seems to me done kind of incident between a US/asked plane and a Russian plane could be all it takes to start a larger conflict.
I works have to look it up but I think the Bible says something to the effect of Syria being laid waste. Sadly enough, look at that poor country. What is it, 250,000+ have died already? People are leaving in droves. Sounds like being laid waste to me sad to say.
As far as the question of did our forefathers fight so we could build on what others had built, I would say they did not that. Did they want people to be stupid? If course not. But didn't Washington himself warn about not getting involved with Europe?
Our forefathers fought because they wanted to free. They fought because they wanted to govern themselves, and because they felt their rights were being trampled. They fought for the idea you could be or do what you wanted at least within reason, if you wanted to be educated, wonderful. If you wanted to be dumb as a box of rocks, you had that right. Would they want people to be dumb? No. But I don't think that they would want the government to legislate all these programs, including education and saddle them on the backs of tax payers. In fact I don't think they introduced an income tax until the civil war, then repealed that 10 years later when the war was over.
So these things may be needful, and I agree maybe government should be able to regulate within reason, so as to avoid corruption, but that the free market should be the one to do these things, not the government. It seems that whenever government gets involved in things that they tend to either do to much, or not enough and that they make a mess that they end up having to try to clean up later, and in the process waste a lot of taxpayer money. Which what is the debt at now, 17 trillion? Think we need to work on that more than climate change to our we could be like greece. I admit I don't know that much about Greece's government etc, but it seems that many times bills you read about in our government have to many extras added onto them.
ohio_grad_06
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Sorry posted before I saw your post. But I do know the democrats have made a total mess of things. I used to lean that way as I said. Have to go back and re-read the the previous post.
Granted the republicans aren't perfect, but as a former democrat they sure line up a lot more with my beliefs than anyone the democrats are running.
Also, another thing, if you listen to conservatives talk, many of them are upset I think with people that they sent to congress who seem to not want to fight for them. Which I would say is why people like Trump and Carson are doing so well.
And you are absolutely right that they fought over taxation without representation, but some of the things today, they might roll over in their graves if they saw.
Btw, I apologize if some of my grammar is off on some of my posts. I've been typing most of these from my phone, so you don't always catch everything
.
It's good people can disagree on things however, I would say the founding fathers would agree that one reason they certainly fought was for freedom for everyone to think for themselves.
Granted the republicans aren't perfect, but as a former democrat they sure line up a lot more with my beliefs than anyone the democrats are running.
Also, another thing, if you listen to conservatives talk, many of them are upset I think with people that they sent to congress who seem to not want to fight for them. Which I would say is why people like Trump and Carson are doing so well.
And you are absolutely right that they fought over taxation without representation, but some of the things today, they might roll over in their graves if they saw.
Btw, I apologize if some of my grammar is off on some of my posts. I've been typing most of these from my phone, so you don't always catch everything
.It's good people can disagree on things however, I would say the founding fathers would agree that one reason they certainly fought was for freedom for everyone to think for themselves.
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Both parties seem to think that we borrow the USD into existence (from China or the like) and that the "National Debt" is just like a household debt and "we the people" have to pay it back or foist "the debt" onto the next generation. Nothing could be further from the truth, although rotting infrastructure and ghettos will always be a load on the grandkids in real terms.
People, the finances of a government that prints it's own fiat currency bear no resemblance to the finances of a household, state or business. If you're worried about $18T of "debt", step back a minute and ask:
"Who got the asset?"
http://thenextsystem.org/monetarily-we-are-already-in-the-next-system-we-just-dont-act-like-it/
People, the finances of a government that prints it's own fiat currency bear no resemblance to the finances of a household, state or business. If you're worried about $18T of "debt", step back a minute and ask:
"Who got the asset?"
http://thenextsystem.org/monetarily-we-are-already-in-the-next-system-we-just-dont-act-like-it/
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phaZed
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Great, so you think the rapture is on the way? Didn't that already pass like 100 times already.. and it never happens? How about we assume it isn't going to happen, just in case your wrong we don't all have to suffer in the long term. So when do you think it is going to happen? What is lining up? I don't see it. It's the same thing every decade.. and the religious look like a bunch of idiots every time. In fact, since the last September 2015 blood moon rapture didn't happen.. we now have predictions for 2020, 2021, 2026, 2060, 2120, 2129, 2200, 2239, 2280, 11120.. which one are you picking? Just plain silly IMO. It just plain stupid to base politics on religion for exactly this type of stuff.. so lets not do that, please.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events
Um, OK, and we never would have pictures or known about those nor had the ability to disarm Iran if the Republicans had their way, since they were trying to block it. So, vote for the party with their heads in the sand then? So you're going to thank the Democrats now for saving Israel then right? No? How do you grapple with the fact that the Republicans did NOT have Israel's interests in mind?
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slat...e_republican_candidates_iran_deal_claims.html
As for Russia.. so what.. Let them do their thing and let the other countries do what they do.. let us stop policing the world. Blah blah, what ifs.. Yeah, well what if NOT? The conflict was indirectly started by the US, no matter how you look at it.. not Russia. Russia is responding to advanced warning and missile barrages being placed on their border (Largely with help solely from the US). As far as ISIS.. well, we made the power-vacuum when we left multiple failed states with a bunch of mad ideologs that hate America because WE keep destroying their countries decade after decade, Just like we consciously made Osama Bin Laden and al-Qaeda... that was the product of the USA and the CIA. So it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
As for Syria... Yeah, it's in the Bible all right (Isaiah 17:1).. but it's already come and passed hundreds or thousands of times now (Literally), since at least 66AD... that is to say.. the Bible has got it wrong plenty now. How many times does the Rapture need to be predicted, then come to pass before we start to think "Hmmm, a 1000 times came and passed.. let's treat this one as if it is going to pass."? Also, where are the earthquakes that are going to change the face of the earth? That's supposed to happen WAY before the leveling of Syria... so that can kind of be our barometer.
When entire continents start shifting and falling into the ocean AND Syria is leveled.. then we can discuss your views seriously.. until then, re-read the bible.
Also, if you do read the Bible you will conclude that a Nuke isn't going to happen, if it did, the rest of the Biblical predictions would be wrong.. right in the very same Isaiah 17:1-3 NLT... duh. So don't let people scare you into things the Bible doesn't even say. IMO, don't let the Bible scare you either.
Refer to Mathew 24:36 in where "the wisdom of Jesus’ words of caution regarding the linkage of human or natural disasters with the arrival of the end time."
No, George Washington never said that... the modern Republicans say that (incorrectly). The US was already "entangled" way before Washington's farewell address, with help from G. Washington!
http://www.breitbart.com/national-s...said-to-avoid-entangling-alliances-or-did-he/
You can tell yourself that as much as you want.. but it simply isn't so. So they wouldn't want to legislate those kinds of programs like education? So why did we in 1642 require towns of 50 or more to have a publicly supported teacher? Why, during THE REVOLUTION did Thomas Jefferson say "Education is a necessary component of democracy"? Why did Jefferson enact the Elementary School Act in 1817? No, rather, the founding fathers recognized the importance of free public school early on in order to produce a literate and informed voting populace. What they were against was Federal control of schools... and rather have the States handle the topic of Education (Which I can agree with in some respects).
http://www.ldsliberty.org/thomas-jefferson-and-public-education/
Was it not the Republican, Theodore Roosevelt, that enacted the "New Nationalism" and many of these "Social Programs" you decry? Yes.
As for the Income Tax, so what? What's your point? That tax had nothing to do with social programs. It had everything to do with fighting a cash strapped war against the south. It was planned to be repealed by Congress and was. There were plenty of other taxes.
Again, do your research. I'm not giving Obama a complete pass here but:
http://zfacts.com/p/318.html
The current debt and much of the rise is a result and continuation of the Bush policies.
Yeah? Who is largely responsible for those kinds of practices?
http://www.newsweek.com/what-did-congress-sneak-last-minute-spending-deal-291090
In what way is Trump or Carson fighting for the people?
Agreed. But you have to be educated to arrive at the correct conclusions. Thinking for one's self doesn't mean one is correct.
Again, I fully respect your views and sincerely enjoy a good debate!
ohio_grad_06
Well-Known Member
- Reaction score
- 581
Concerning the rapture, don't ask my why that people make those predictions. Matthew 24:36 Jesus clearly said no man knows the day nor the hour. But it does also talk about that like the days of Noah that they were eating, drinking, getting married etc. And were not aware. It's like today, everyone basically does their own thing. And sadly enough, not enough people are looking for the coming of the Lord. I can't tell you when it will happen, but I can say that people probably should not make predictions. God could return in 5 seconds, but it may not be for 40 years.
You ask about earthquakes, don't you remember the tsunami in was it 2004 that hit Indonesia. If memory serves, that was caused by an undersea earthquake that slightly knocked the planet off it's axis.
Below is an article from 2004, and a snippet
"Scientists said that a sea level change likely occurred even along the New England coast, though it would have been detectable only by sensitive instruments. And they speculated that the "megathrust" quake unleashed so much energy that it could have rocked the earth off its axis a bit -- though so slightly that it would have no practical impact"
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2004-12-28/news/0412280069_1_sea-floor-indian-ocean-tsunami
The Japan earthquake in 2011 is said to have moved the island of Japan 8 feet!
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/12/japan.earthquake.tsunami.earth/
So seems like a couple of good examples.
I can't speak to all the times Syria/Damascus may have been destroyed. But if you look at history, Damascus is one of the longest continuously inhabited cities. It may have been conquered, but in Isaiah 17, it says it will cease from being a city, so if that is correct, it won't even be a city anymore, just ruins. Not simply conquered. But I do see what you're saying because even some others say that the prophecy about that was fulfilled. However, the name of that city has kept coming back. It does speak a few verses later talking about the destruction of Israel according to some things I've read. They also said the prophecy may be fulfilled but it could be one that happens again. Prophecy is not my strongest suite. However 1 Thessalonians 5 talks about knowing the seasons before the Lord comes back. Just seems there is too much going on that is in line with what has been prophesied to take it lightly.
In times past I would have voted democrat. But as far as democrats today, no I would not thank them for saving Israel. I think they've pulled away from Israel way too much. I personally don't agree with the nuclear deal with Iran either. I think they should have negotiated a lot harder.
As far as the creation of Al Qaeda, can't speak to all of that, but I will say I didn't necessarily agree with going back to Iraq either. Didn't 100% back Bush on that, but I think the current administration pulled troops out way too soon and when things did start happening, should have put maybe 10-20,000 troops on the ground to help the Iraqi army stop isis before they got this far along. As bad as Saddam Hussein may have been, he helped keep a balance of power there.
About an Iran nuke not happening, I would agree with you. I don't think Israel will tolerate a nuclear armed Iran and would likely bomb them first. As far as Russia and all, yes that is happening much in response likely to us going into places then pulling out before we should but regardless, that is the situation that exists. And Putin seems pretty set on wanting to return Russia to superpower status. Russia and Iran are allies. If Israel attacked Iran over a nuclear weapon, it's plausible that Russia may go after Israel seeing as they are now literally next door in Syria.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-troubled-by-potential-conflict-with-russian-forces-in-syria/
Again as far as education, Public schools, no problem. College, needs to be a bigger discussion I suppose there.
On the debt, I don't agree with everything that Bush did. But it was what 10 trillion something when Obama came in and is now at about 17 trillion? So yes, Bush did things but democrats should take ownership too. As far as Reagan, I was like 3-4 when he was in office lol.
To be totally honest, primary of 2008, I voted as a democrat for Hillary. But when she didn't win, I voted for McCain. After all the email scandal on Benghazi etc and the people killed there, I could no longer vote for Hillary. If there was one democrat I could see in the White House, I might not mind seeing Joe Biden in there.
Why do I support Trump? Look the man is already rich, he's already made his millions. What does he have to gain besides headaches by wanting to be President? What is he in his 60's? I mean he has to know he has lets say another 30-40 years left. Ok, can he possibly spend all of his money, I don't know that he gains anything by being in there, so I'm inclined to believe him. Dr. Carson I thought that the radio said he came from almost nothing and worked his way up. I have respect for that. He seems a bit soft spoken though, so I'd like to see possibly Trump as the candidate, Carson as VP to help keep Trump in line.
As far as everything, when it comes to God coming back, my Pastor has taught plan as though the coming of the Lord will never happen, but live your life as though He will come back at any time. Climate change, my big thing there as I said, it just seems right now the world has bigger issues that need to take more importance.
You ask about earthquakes, don't you remember the tsunami in was it 2004 that hit Indonesia. If memory serves, that was caused by an undersea earthquake that slightly knocked the planet off it's axis.
Below is an article from 2004, and a snippet
"Scientists said that a sea level change likely occurred even along the New England coast, though it would have been detectable only by sensitive instruments. And they speculated that the "megathrust" quake unleashed so much energy that it could have rocked the earth off its axis a bit -- though so slightly that it would have no practical impact"
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2004-12-28/news/0412280069_1_sea-floor-indian-ocean-tsunami
The Japan earthquake in 2011 is said to have moved the island of Japan 8 feet!
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/12/japan.earthquake.tsunami.earth/
So seems like a couple of good examples.
I can't speak to all the times Syria/Damascus may have been destroyed. But if you look at history, Damascus is one of the longest continuously inhabited cities. It may have been conquered, but in Isaiah 17, it says it will cease from being a city, so if that is correct, it won't even be a city anymore, just ruins. Not simply conquered. But I do see what you're saying because even some others say that the prophecy about that was fulfilled. However, the name of that city has kept coming back. It does speak a few verses later talking about the destruction of Israel according to some things I've read. They also said the prophecy may be fulfilled but it could be one that happens again. Prophecy is not my strongest suite. However 1 Thessalonians 5 talks about knowing the seasons before the Lord comes back. Just seems there is too much going on that is in line with what has been prophesied to take it lightly.
In times past I would have voted democrat. But as far as democrats today, no I would not thank them for saving Israel. I think they've pulled away from Israel way too much. I personally don't agree with the nuclear deal with Iran either. I think they should have negotiated a lot harder.
As far as the creation of Al Qaeda, can't speak to all of that, but I will say I didn't necessarily agree with going back to Iraq either. Didn't 100% back Bush on that, but I think the current administration pulled troops out way too soon and when things did start happening, should have put maybe 10-20,000 troops on the ground to help the Iraqi army stop isis before they got this far along. As bad as Saddam Hussein may have been, he helped keep a balance of power there.
About an Iran nuke not happening, I would agree with you. I don't think Israel will tolerate a nuclear armed Iran and would likely bomb them first. As far as Russia and all, yes that is happening much in response likely to us going into places then pulling out before we should but regardless, that is the situation that exists. And Putin seems pretty set on wanting to return Russia to superpower status. Russia and Iran are allies. If Israel attacked Iran over a nuclear weapon, it's plausible that Russia may go after Israel seeing as they are now literally next door in Syria.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-troubled-by-potential-conflict-with-russian-forces-in-syria/
Again as far as education, Public schools, no problem. College, needs to be a bigger discussion I suppose there.
On the debt, I don't agree with everything that Bush did. But it was what 10 trillion something when Obama came in and is now at about 17 trillion? So yes, Bush did things but democrats should take ownership too. As far as Reagan, I was like 3-4 when he was in office lol.
To be totally honest, primary of 2008, I voted as a democrat for Hillary. But when she didn't win, I voted for McCain. After all the email scandal on Benghazi etc and the people killed there, I could no longer vote for Hillary. If there was one democrat I could see in the White House, I might not mind seeing Joe Biden in there.
Why do I support Trump? Look the man is already rich, he's already made his millions. What does he have to gain besides headaches by wanting to be President? What is he in his 60's? I mean he has to know he has lets say another 30-40 years left. Ok, can he possibly spend all of his money, I don't know that he gains anything by being in there, so I'm inclined to believe him. Dr. Carson I thought that the radio said he came from almost nothing and worked his way up. I have respect for that. He seems a bit soft spoken though, so I'd like to see possibly Trump as the candidate, Carson as VP to help keep Trump in line.
As far as everything, when it comes to God coming back, my Pastor has taught plan as though the coming of the Lord will never happen, but live your life as though He will come back at any time. Climate change, my big thing there as I said, it just seems right now the world has bigger issues that need to take more importance.
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YeOldeStonecat
Well-Known Member
- Reaction score
- 6,919
- Location
- Englewood Florida
I still don't know who to vote for. Letting the chaff sift itself out a little further....too many people with their hats tossed in the ring right now.
Historically I'm Republican as far as conservative values. Although we have had some great Democratic leaders in our past.
One thing I'm a firm believer in...even though historically I'm republican, I do believe in changing of parties at the POTUS every few terms. In other words...no more than 2-3 terms of one particular party in a row. What keeps things relatively in balance.....is changing the parties at the helm...a term or two of a Democrat, and then a term or two of a Republican..and then it's time for a Democrat again. This keeps any one party from getting things too deeply rooted.
We have "Bush fatigue"...not in the mood for another Bush in the seat. Senior was so-so, I wasn't crazy about Jr.
There are a few things that seem visibly acceptable on the surface...such as gas prices, and the slowly, yet delicately, climbing economy...there are other things I can't stand, like what happened to health insurance...I can't stand the new system and its impact on what we had. It forced our existing healthcare to skyrocket in price, costs so much now just to get close to what we had.
I am ready for another Reagan...I think someone like him is what this country needs. Our country soared under him...in values, in pride, in small business, economically, and globally respected. It's been a long time since. Problem is....I think the government has become so deeply rooted in the ways it deal with things....and in a bad way....I don't think it can ever be turned around. Too many "back pocket deals"....by the uber-rich. Prime example...The Koch Brothers ..it's people like them who really run our country. The POTUS these days has turned into just a puppet.
Historically I'm Republican as far as conservative values. Although we have had some great Democratic leaders in our past.
One thing I'm a firm believer in...even though historically I'm republican, I do believe in changing of parties at the POTUS every few terms. In other words...no more than 2-3 terms of one particular party in a row. What keeps things relatively in balance.....is changing the parties at the helm...a term or two of a Democrat, and then a term or two of a Republican..and then it's time for a Democrat again. This keeps any one party from getting things too deeply rooted.
We have "Bush fatigue"...not in the mood for another Bush in the seat. Senior was so-so, I wasn't crazy about Jr.
There are a few things that seem visibly acceptable on the surface...such as gas prices, and the slowly, yet delicately, climbing economy...there are other things I can't stand, like what happened to health insurance...I can't stand the new system and its impact on what we had. It forced our existing healthcare to skyrocket in price, costs so much now just to get close to what we had.
I am ready for another Reagan...I think someone like him is what this country needs. Our country soared under him...in values, in pride, in small business, economically, and globally respected. It's been a long time since. Problem is....I think the government has become so deeply rooted in the ways it deal with things....and in a bad way....I don't think it can ever be turned around. Too many "back pocket deals"....by the uber-rich. Prime example...The Koch Brothers ..it's people like them who really run our country. The POTUS these days has turned into just a puppet.
Oh it soared, all right. For the rich.
He was a terrible governor and an even worse president.
The national debt almost tripled under Reagan--from $907 billion in 1980 to $2.6 trillion in 1988. And, the guy who said "man is not free unless government is limited," increased the federal workforce by about 324,000 to almost 5.3 million people. So much for that "small government" that conservatives worship.
Choose wisely.
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Yes, it seems that "Trickle Down" turn more into "Trickle Out" to offshore accounts.
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