Backup/business continuity

[BO Terry]

I have a client that owns a small CPA firm. Currently, they use cloud backup for their RAID 1 Windows 7 file server only. Below is the request I received from them today. What I am looking for are suggestions on helping them as well as similar clients. I would like to present them with different levels of protection, different price points so that they can have a choice, balancing budget and tolerance for downtime. Some scenarios That come to mind are:

Continue with cloud backup for files and add a local backup to USB drive to provide a clone using something like Acronis.

Look into an cloud backup that includes cloning.

Onsite device from a company like Datto to provide a clone option.

“Would you be willing to do a review and advise on the best way to make sure our data is redundant? The previous owner used “SOS Backup” for the Server, and while it’s still functioning, I’m not confident in its effectiveness. Ex: The weekly backup sends a confirmation email, but sometimes the number of files backed up seems way too low.

Ultimately - I want to make sure that if that computer dies, we could be back up-and-running once another machine is plugged into its place.

 

[fencepost]

Datto is probably the most off-the-shelf (and expensive! but with nice profit margins) way to do this. One key feature is the automated spinup of the online backup image in a VM and snapshotting to make sure it comes up.

A bunch of other options that support hybrid backups scenarios can probably be suggested by other folks, including things like Solarwinds backup (image to a local device - probably a NAS not USB - as well as online) or others like Acronis, Macrium, Easeus, Cloudberrylab, etc. where I think you'll need to arrange your own online storage.

In any case I'd skip the USB connection and have it backing up to something else over the LAN - ideally an official NAS like a 2-bay Synology. For that matter, I believe Synology has their own backup software designed to do image-based backups to the NAS though it may not have all the features of paid packages.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Datto all the things... so when you need help at 2am and you can't think, the Datto guys can fix it for you.

 

[Markverhyden]

If they got the money then Datto would be the way to go. But you could do things like have a onsite Synology and another one local and do a rsync between them. A big shortcoming of any cloud backup is the amount of time it can take to do a full restore for a very large data store..

 

[Sky-Knight]

If they got the money then Datto would be the way to go. But you could do things like have a onsite Synology and another one local and do a rsync between them. A big shortcoming of any cloud backup is the amount of time it can take to do a full restore for a very large data store..

And that's why Datto has round trip drives... data shows up on a USB disk tomorrow.

 

[Markverhyden]

And that's why Datto has round trip drives... data shows up on a USB disk tomorrow.

Size limits? I looked into this for a customer several years ago. Forgot who it was but it wasn't Datto. Max size was rather small at the time. Like 500gb.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Size limits? I looked into this for a customer several years ago. Forgot who it was but it wasn't Datto. Max size was rather small at the time. Like 500gb.

There are none, they'll even ship an entire backup appliance if that's what it takes. Which honestly, if you're using a round trip you're probably buying a new Datto and having it preloaded because the facility burned down. Otherwise you're restoring a backup from the local appliance.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

I've been a Datto partner since their first year out, we're "Elite" level partners with them. LOVE their products.
Say a clients server catches fire and burns to a pile of black ooze, you can "spin up" the most recent backup from say..within the past hour, and have it running virtually on the network within like..15 minutes. Remotely. Take your time quoting a replacement server...receiving money from the client, ordering replacement server, and schedule downtime to "restore" the server back to the "new" server.

One time I was on vacation up in New Hampshire, out on a boat in Lake Winnie. A clients server got ransomwared. (the freaking owner of all people..opens her AOL mail). (not a managed client!) . I tethered my laptop to my cell phone from the middle of the lake..got them back up and running quickly.

Just last week, another client in Rhode Island.their server was getting wobbly and we'd been working on a replacement server...not fast enough! Server start crashing and RAID volume jumping off the cliff. We got it running for 1 day..and I planned on "virtualizing" on the Siris after biz hours. I was home, making dinner, last person left their office...and I remoted in, had the server virtualized on the Siris before I served dinner.

Datto is expensive...yes. But they take care of everything for you. I've deal with a LOT of backup products over my >25 of this game. Nothing's been as "breath easy, relax"...as Datto has made backup/DR/biz cont for us and our clients. In the past, when you get that call from a client "Server down"...you used to start sweating, dreading going onsite, wondering if the backup has been working, if it will work on a restore. Datto is the first product where I just say (and honestly feel)..."OK, no problem, have ya back in a jiffy!" Stress free is a rare thing in this field...Datto is one of 'em.

 

[seedubya]

I have a client that owns a small CPA firm. Currently, they use cloud backup for their RAID 1 Windows 7 file server only. Below is the request I received from them today. What I am looking for are suggestions on helping them as well as similar clients. I would like to present them with different levels of protection, different price points so that they can have a choice, balancing budget and tolerance for downtime. Some scenarios That come to mind are:

Continue with cloud backup for files and add a local backup to USB drive to provide a clone using something like Acronis.

Look into an cloud backup that includes cloning.

Onsite device from a company like Datto to provide a clone option.

“Would you be willing to do a review and advise on the best way to make sure our data is redundant? The previous owner used “SOS Backup” for the Server, and while it’s still functioning, I’m not confident in its effectiveness. Ex: The weekly backup sends a confirmation email, but sometimes the number of files backed up seems way too low.

Ultimately - I want to make sure that if that computer dies, we could be back up-and-running once another machine is plugged into its place.

Whatever you decide on make sure to build regular test restores into your plan. I'm not a Datto partner, the Irish SME market just doesn't seem to have the appetite for the cost. We've rolled our own solution using Veeam\Altaro, Synology and Backblaze. We sell it as DRAAS and make way more money than we would with Datto BUT we have more headaches and have some manual checks to do. Still works out very, very profitable though.

 

[Markverhyden]

Whatever you decide on make sure to build regular test restores into your plan.

^^^This.

Can't be emphasized enough. Lost track long ago of the disasters that got way worse because they just assumed (we all know what that spells, right?) that the backups were good.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Except... oh wait...

Datto does the test restores for you too... It refers to them as screenshots. They aren't perfect, but they do most of the lifting.

 

[BO Terry]

If they got the money then Datto would be the way to go. But you could do things like have a onsite Synology and another one local and do a rsync between them. A big shortcoming of any cloud backup is the amount of time it can take to do a full restore for a very large data store..

I haven’t done anything like this but have been meaning to research it. With a setup like this, could you do an image backup for one machine (like the server) and provide file backups for workstations?

I've been a Datto partner since their first year out, we're "Elite" level partners with them. LOVE their products.
Say a clients server catches fire and burns to a pile of black ooze, you can "spin up" the most recent backup from say..within the past hour, and have it running virtually on the network within like..15 minutes. Remotely. Take your time quoting a replacement server...receiving money from the client, ordering replacement server, and schedule downtime to "restore" the server back to the "new" server.

One time I was on vacation up in New Hampshire, out on a boat in Lake Winnie. A clients server got ransomwared. (the freaking owner of all people..opens her AOL mail). (not a managed client!) . I tethered my laptop to my cell phone from the middle of the lake..got them back up and running quickly.

Just last week, another client in Rhode Island.their server was getting wobbly and we'd been working on a replacement server...not fast enough! Server start crashing and RAID volume jumping off the cliff. We got it running for 1 day..and I planned on "virtualizing" on the Siris after biz hours. I was home, making dinner, last person left their office...and I remoted in, had the server virtualized on the Siris before I served dinner.

Datto is expensive...yes. But they take care of everything for you. I've deal with a LOT of backup products over my >25 of this game. Nothing's been as "breath easy, relax"...as Datto has made backup/DR/biz cont for us and our clients. In the past, when you get that call from a client "Server down"...you used to start sweating, dreading going onsite, wondering if the backup has been working, if it will work on a restore. Datto is the first product where I just say (and honestly feel)..."OK, no problem, have ya back in a jiffy!" Stress free is a rare thing in this field...Datto is one of 'em.

So, in the case if say a fire, to have them up and running virtually/temporarily until new equipment can be ordered and setup, is that all through Datto or are other pieces have to be put into place to make that happen? And how much of those transitions are on you as a provider vs Datto?

I actually had another client that had a fire in their office. They were very lucky. Only one computer, the case was partly melted but the drive was fine.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

No other equipment needed. Datto has basically 2x different product lines...Alto..(entry level), and Siris. Each in many different sizes/capacities, with different retention plans.

Altos back up on themselves (and you restore data from there), but cannot virtualize (spin up) a backup. They also backup offsite to multiple Datto data centers. if you need to "spin up" a backup, you do it in the data center offsite, and it creates a VPN tunnel through the Alto device so your clients workstations can connect to the server through the VPN tunnel. It works fairly well, of course more bandwidth is better.

Siris can spin up backups locally.
No other equipment needed. Not hard to manage them.

 

[marley1]

Would suggest looking at Unitrends as well

 

[Markverhyden]

I haven’t done anything like this but have been meaning to research it. With a setup like this, could you do an image backup for one machine (like the server) and provide file backups for workstations?

The backup destination is independent, so to speak, from the backup app itself. Meaning you can have a backup app, like Macrium or Acronis, which will do image or file backups. The destination can be anything the app can see from the machine, like a USB drive or network storage.

For example you can use a large USB drive and attach it to the server. Then map the drive as a network resource. The server backup will see it as a local drive and the workstations will see it as network storage. In this situation you'd want to have two drives and swap them out periodically, keeping one offsite for disaster recovery. I do this with many small customers with Time Machine. It does require that the customer remember to do the swap as well as follow some simple instructions. An NAS like Synology can be used in this same context.

As the others mentioned a very important part is verifying the backup. Backups that don't work are useless. As I said I've seen way too many backups that would not restore for any number of reasons. It's not common but that's moot. One needs a backup to work when you need it.

That's the value of something like Datto, they take care of that. It's not cheap but if you spend time verifying you need to get paid. So it's six of one and a half dozen of the other.

 

[seedubya]

Except... oh wait...

Datto does the test restores for you too... It refers to them as screenshots. They aren't perfect, but they do most of the lifting.

I'm aware of this and would love to be selling them every day but the pricing here is just too high for the market.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

As the others mentioned a very important part is verifying the backup. Backups that don't work are useless. As I said I've seen way too many backups that would not restore for any number of reasons. It's not common but that's moot. One needs a backup to work when you need it.

That's the value of something like Datto, they take care of that. It's not cheap but if you spend time verifying you need to get paid. So it's six of one and a half dozen of the other.

QFT
With many other services, YOU spend time trying to fix things, tweak things, etc.
And for restores...YOU spend time doing it, testing. And it should be at fairly regular intervals. Not just "test it once..and then just let it go for the rest of the 10 years you take care of that client".

And sure...some techs with lots of time on their hands can "home grow" a sorta almost similar service based on a ton of freebie and some paid tools. if something breaks..it's on them to fix it. The sweat is running down their foreheads as the client lurks over their shoulder during a crisis asking "When's it back up?!"

Morning backup checks...I can fly through my quick checks in less than just a couple of minutes...skimming the inbox of morning backup reports from Datto. Screenshots in the email showing the backed up images booted up fine and got to the ctrl+alt+del point. See below screenshot from one of the 7 servers on a clients Siris 4000 appliance. We usually have these also CC'd to someone at each client. Gives them a nice "warm 'n fuzzy".

Does this mean you never have to test yourself? Of course not. But it can cut down big time on the amount of testing needed to keep that "it's working great" feeling. We still occasionally boot up a virtual recovery instance, log in, look around, and/or test restore to a hypervisor host, and/or peel file/folders off of it to test basic data restore. But we no longer make it a regular thing...this "self tests" are pretty darned accurate. If the servers image can boot up on the Datto appliance...it will boot up for you. The Datto appliance basically has a VMWare like thing as one of its components.

 

[Sky-Knight]

I'm aware of this and would love to be selling them every day but the pricing here is just too high for the market.

IMHO that means you aren't selling it correctly. What is your customer's business worth? How many employees? Even at minimum wage being down for a day while you argue with whatever is going to cost vast piles of more money than the $100 / month for an Alto 3 to keep a single server safe, and if they do a year in advance that Alto 3 itself is FREE.

It's an insurance policy, not a backup solution. I live in Arizona, it's a poor market... I get you... yet I still sell a substantial amount of Datto. I do also have some cheap people out there that use ShadowProtect, to a local NAS. But these sites do not have cloud anything for backup, because as soon as you want a cloud sync... Datto is all I'll support. If they won't pay for Datto, they certainly won't pay for my time to maintain something else when it breaks.

 

[fencepost]

I want to start selling things more on a basis of "I'm going to do everything reasonable that I can to prevent problems without interfering too much in your use of your computers and the Internet, but I have to expect that at some point that will not be good enough. When those measures fail, what's your tolerance for downtime - hours, days, weeks? Keep in mind also that there's a chance that if something serious happens it's going to hit multiple clients so I may be juggling multiple restores."

For examples I'll point out things like the recent Asus kerfluffle where properly-signed code was available for months on their website without being detected.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@fencepost, exactly. Managed services are insurance policies. Let the customer define IN WRITING their tolerance. So when the excrement elevates to the fan, you have a document they've signed that shows management where they screwed up.

Which create a wonderful feedback loop, disaster = more business.