Any advice for a beginner?

hawks5999 said:
I realized about 4 years ago that experience was a little overrated. Working for a larger tech firm I put together a team for a deployment/data transfer of about 600 workstations in a very high profile law firm. We had several "experienced" technicians and a few no-experience guys. I hired one of the no-experience guys myself based on a referral from his dad, my friend. He was 17 and his previous job was (i kid you not) collecting carts from the parking lot of a grocery store. Turned out, Daryl was the best, fastest and in the end most knowledgeable of the whole team. Daryl was able to work on 5-7 machines at one time and when I QC'd his work it was flawless. The guys who had been in this field for 3-5-7 years were... meh. We ended up cutting 3 of the more "experienced" (and more expensive) guys from the team and added 2 of Daryl's friends - with the same experience and (honestly) same previous job. Both of them rocked it. One went on 2 years later to lead teams supporting 20,000 production servers in one of Microsoft's Tukwila Data Centers - at 20 years old. Daryl is now managing application repackaging for deployment and imaging via SMS in an environment of 10,000 PCs - at 21.
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How convienient.
 
I'm not saying he is not good at what he does. I'm not saying he can't fix computers at 17. I understand that things are different for todays gen because they grew up with omputers. What I am saying is that for a 17 year old kid who has been working on computers sense the age of 14 (3 years experience) to be better than the tech thats been working on multible computers daily for 10-15 years is very much the exception, not the norm.

There are just some things you can't learn out of a book and some things you have do many many times before its automatic.

When I first started out I pretty much knew what I was doing . I thought I did. But looking back on it I made stupid mistakes. Like forgetting to back up all the customers data in my haste to reinstall for a quick $$. Or installing lots of programs for the customer that they most likely would never use, like spybot and ad aware.

I have no problems with someone getting started at that age. My problem starts when they live next door and charge $10 per job because they can (no bills, living at home with parents ect.). While I sit here and get knocked out of work because I charge $30 per hour and have a family to feed and bills to pay.
 
First off let me say as someone who was born in England and moved to the US at age 10, 17 in the UK is older than 17 in the US. That sentence sounds stupid looking back but trust me it's true.

Secondly, as a 21 year old who is the tech that other techs go to for help around here (not trying to sound arrogant), 17 now is older in computer years than it was in years past. I have no experience with really old systems, and guess what, I don't need it! All my computers have been windows (starting with good ole program manager, but at that point I wasn't tinkering), and therefore a bigger percentage of my experience is relevant experience. Actually I would estimate my experience is about proportional to the current market share of OSs, I doubt I will be able to say that in 10 years. I highly doubt tech knowledge will be your biggest challenge.

Having said that, and agreeing with Doug that you can hire young guys and they out perform older guys, I must also say that if you are on your own, experience (in tech, business, and customer service) is more important than when you are working with others. You can't start your own business without a good degree of experience. This seems like an impossible loop, you can't get experience without experience. But there is a very powerful, two-part loophole that shouldn't be underestimated. The first part is working on friends and family machines to gain tech experience, do this for free, and don't let them refer you to others (yet), and don't let them tell others it's for free (ever). The second part is working for a large computer repair place, or as part of the IT team at a big company (depending on whether you want to go into the home or business market). This way you get experience with working with lot's of different computers, and more importantly, people, as customer service is key. You get a little bit of business experience here, but there really is no substitute for running your own business. The best you can do on that front is getting business knowledge, which you can do by reading a lot and talking to other business owners.

Bottom line is that you absolutely must be polished and professional before going into it. Because of your age (not tech knowledge, but due to people looking down on you), this is even more important. Preconceived notions are hard to break, so you must completely smash them very quickly, by being the best you can be.
 
gunslinger said:
I have no problems with someone getting started at that age. My problem starts when they live next door and charge $10 per job because they can (no bills, living at home with parents ect.). While I sit here and get knocked out of work because I charge $30 per hour and have a family to feed and bills to pay.
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And therein lies the rub. I think it's prudent for all of us who are running computer repair businesses to look seriously at our exit strategy. There are many macro forces that are coming together in the next 5-10 years that will destroy many of our businesses if we are not planning now for them.

1. The younger, more technically adept generation coming into the workforce - less overhead and can undercut our prices.

2. The move toward Auto/Self repair - a la http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=198okcxeF74 will marginalize your value and undercut your prices.

3. The move to cloud/saas will also marginalize your value as apps, services move off the pc, off the premise and into the browser. Microsoft is moving hard in this direction with hosted exchange/sharepoint. Expect hosted Word, Excel, PPT as part of the next release.

4. The move to more and more disposable computing. Why spend $100 to fix a computer when you can buy a new one for $100 (not today but in 5-10 years for sure).

5. The rise of the Mac - as the Mac becomes more mainstream, so much of the work that we are called on for today becomes moot. Virus cleanup? Spyware removal? Application install? It's literally drag and drop. OS reinstall or upgrade? No.

6. The more technically adept generation in the workforce as potential customers will have less and less need for a technical "specialist" since they've been tweaking with computers their whole lives to get better performance in WOW or BioShock, etc.

Maybe it's longer than 5-10 years, but I'd not give it too much more than that. The generation who thinks computers are somehow magic is moving out of the workforce and into retirement. As long as email works for them or they can iChat with their grandkids, they are fine. They have more disposable income and are using Macs or they have little disposable income and don't want to spend it on you.

The thing we have to focus on to remain viable as businesses is to move up the value chain - away from break/fix, away from install and maintenance and into the more consultative realm of technology planning, strategic use, etc. If you are not operating as your (business) clients CIO and directing the course of technology to either impact the top line or the bottom line, you will be a commodity and the key differentiator of a commodity is price.

In the home market, you should be switching your focus to home automation, home theatre, security integration.

Overall, I'm planning to sell my business out in 5 years and focus on another industry as this one will be totally commoditized shortly after that time frame.

Just a couple more of my $.02
 
The Birddog said:
PS. Its people like yourself, with zero business / customer relationship experience that gives the trade a bad name. Sorry if that offends.
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I agree w/ Birddog in the fact that rushing into opening a repair business has the potential to reflect badly on yourself and the industry. I spent years studying and obtaining base certs to gain the base knowledge. I was great at working w/ computers but they were my own. I did not have a vast array of knowledge other than what I read in a book and worked on in my own home. After obtaining the certs I began working in the IT department of a local hospital part time as a help desk tech and slowly worked my way up to more challenging positions and full time. I gained a lot of knowledge but was I ready to deal w/ customers on my own. I wasn't sure. So I started offering my services to family and friends to get my feet wet. Once I gained the confidence I began to branch out a little. Till this day I am still learning as I am sure the others on this forum are regardless of their experience. If I were you I would definitely try to work for someone else for awhile. The wisdom you will gain working side by side w/ more knowledgeable techs will be invaluable. Just my 2 cents
 
today was the first day of the semester. I go to a technical college. i prided myself on the extent of my knowledge when it came to computers. again, this is a college that post military men attend who in most cases have a kid or two. so no nonsense. my classmates actually read and write code for fun. i am totally out of my league. the server room for the colleges mainframe totally educated me as to what i didnt know. but the thing is that they maybe can handle a linux/unix/ubuntu/wtvr environment with 3 monitors and two keyboards...but place them in a windows environment and they are totally lost

note:
do to the ratio of linux fans who passionately and unreservedly hate MS, i haven't actually seen this ever happen...but it totally could
 
Andrew said:
lol cheers. And cheers for all the positive replies. I'm still thinking about it..
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At least you seem to have a good and positive attitude. But I'd take a little bit of both sides (hawk and birddog). If at all possible, try working as an entry level tech at a retail store or a local computer store. You will learn a lot as far as how a tech business should be run. If you are dead set on starting your own business, make sure you do careful research in regards to legal issues and ramifications. I think working at least 1 year in an actual store would do wonders and set you up to succeed much more than just jumping into it. Either way, good luck!
 
I am not sure that I agree with you about the "Technical generation" not needing a computer specialist Hawk. A large portion of my clients have been from the local college and university and they should be in the Technology Generation right? You forget while it comes easy to us often people know very little about the working of computers, From Masters students breaking uninstallers to freshmen not knowing how to get to their files after a crash there are lots of people who are young and know nothing about computers.
 
Andrew, dont take any offense to what certain technicians are saying. Although it sounds like they are being negative, they just dont want you ruining your name while you "gain experience" and be unable to operate in your own town.

I also started at 17 and my first paid client was a family friend. I charged about $25 USD per hour and I could deal with most problems. I did come across some problems I couldnt fix at all so I never charged. If I felt I was taking longer by "learning as I go" I shaved off time and told my family friend client I have them a discount (which I did, but not because they are just family friends). If I were you, I'd do what the others are saying and work on family/friends computers and study at the same time.
Once you are finished studying and are old enough to legally set up the business, start advertising in papers and opening up your client base to people you had no relationship with previously.
 
Thanks for all the advice, I'm still looking things up. I've had a couple of university offers which interest me but my current part time programming job has offered me a full time position- both tempting. I've a gap year in which I'll be abroad for six months and working for the other half so I'll look into things more and come to a decision then I suppose!
 
Bryce W said:
Andrew, dont take any offense to what certain technicians are saying. Although it sounds like they are being negative, they just dont want you ruining your name while you "gain experience" and be unable to operate in your own town.
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Exactly, whats the point of ruining your name in your home town and lose trust in local people. It could get so bad that you could'nt run ANY business in your home town.

Well said Bryce, words of wisdom indeed.
 
"Overall, I'm planning to sell my business out in 5 years and focus on another industry as this one will be totally commoditized shortly after that time frame." Do you guys all agree with hawk? are newcomers wasitng the time in PC repair/going to go out of business in 10 years aprox.?
 
RUNNING REPAIRS said:
"Overall, I'm planning to sell my business out in 5 years and focus on another industry as this one will be totally commoditized shortly after that time frame." Do you guys all agree with hawk? are newcomers wasitng the time in PC repair/going to go out of business in 10 years aprox.?
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I disagree with hawks his assumption is based on the fact that the younger generation has a full understanding of computers and will not need help which I feel isn't true .
 
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hawks5999 said:
And therein lies the rub. I think it's prudent for all of us who are running computer repair businesses to look seriously at our exit strategy. There are many macro forces that are coming together in the next 5-10 years that will destroy many of our businesses if we are not planning now for them.

1. The younger, more technically adept generation coming into the workforce - less overhead and can undercut our prices.

2. The move toward Auto/Self repair - a la http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=198okcxeF74 will marginalize your value and undercut your prices.

3. The move to cloud/saas will also marginalize your value as apps, services move off the pc, off the premise and into the browser. Microsoft is moving hard in this direction with hosted exchange/sharepoint. Expect hosted Word, Excel, PPT as part of the next release.

4. The move to more and more disposable computing. Why spend $100 to fix a computer when you can buy a new one for $100 (not today but in 5-10 years for sure).

5. The rise of the Mac - as the Mac becomes more mainstream, so much of the work that we are called on for today becomes moot. Virus cleanup? Spyware removal? Application install? It's literally drag and drop. OS reinstall or upgrade? No.

6. The more technically adept generation in the workforce as potential customers will have less and less need for a technical "specialist" since they've been tweaking with computers their whole lives to get better performance in WOW or BioShock, etc.

Maybe it's longer than 5-10 years, but I'd not give it too much more than that. The generation who thinks computers are somehow magic is moving out of the workforce and into retirement. As long as email works for them or they can iChat with their grandkids, they are fine. They have more disposable income and are using Macs or they have little disposable income and don't want to spend it on you.

The thing we have to focus on to remain viable as businesses is to move up the value chain - away from break/fix, away from install and maintenance and into the more consultative realm of technology planning, strategic use, etc. If you are not operating as your (business) clients CIO and directing the course of technology to either impact the top line or the bottom line, you will be a commodity and the key differentiator of a commodity is price.

In the home market, you should be switching your focus to home automation, home theatre, security integration.

Overall, I'm planning to sell my business out in 5 years and focus on another industry as this one will be totally commoditized shortly after that time frame.

Just a couple more of my $.02
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:eek: I was reading through this thread and when i got to hawks comment above i near died, I have been wanting to get myself setup for the past 9 years and only in the last couple of years have I actually started doing anything about it (getting my a+ so i have it on paper, doing a business course, learning to drive and got a job in a technical helpdesk) I had obviously imagined this happening when I stated reading about windows cloud etc but i guess i tried to kidd myself because i wanted it so much.

Does anyone else think this could be the end of techs before i even get started?

If it all falls to pieces tomorrow where could we use our skills we have been building up over the years?
 
Not the end of techs, but us techs will have to adapt and hone our skills to the new market opportunities. If you really do believe that computers will be self-repairing anytime soon, bear in mind it's something that Microsoft has promised with each release of it's operating systems and applications for many years. It's latest OS is more self-destructing than healing! Likewise, Mr Gates promised us an end to SPAM emails a couple of years back.

Embrace the future technology and you'll be able to find ways to earn a living.
 
All valid arguments, hawks5999. Just goes to show that now more then ever IT is an ever changing environment. However, with the shift in technology comes the shift in problems.

2. The move toward Auto/Self repair - a la http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=198okcxeF74 will marginalize your value and undercut your prices.
Click to expand...

These types of tools have been around for a long time... people will still find ways to mess them up, OEMs will find ways to screw them up... IBM (now lenovo) has had a "blue button" on their laptops for almost 10 years. Viruses/Spyware/Trojans will become more advanced faster and will still require someone more knowledgeable to assist.

answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081023084639AAtmheu

forums.lenovo.com/lnv/board/message?board.id=N_Series_Lenovo_3000&thread.id=325

www.fixya.com/support/t1143412-one_key_recovery_not_working


3. The move to cloud/saas will also marginalize your value as apps, services move off the pc, off the premise and into the browser. Microsoft is moving hard in this direction with hosted exchange/sharepoint. Expect hosted Word, Excel, PPT as part of the next release.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Brush up on your network communication skills. The skill set will shift, but inherently, technology will always have its problems.

4. The move to more and more disposable computing. Why spend $100 to fix a computer when you can buy a new one for $100 (not today but in 5-10 years for sure).
Click to expand...

We are pretty much there now - however, data transfer, data recover is still an issue. Buying a new pc doesn't solve everything... or much if users keep making the same mistakes.

5. The rise of the Mac - as the Mac becomes more mainstream, so much of the work that we are called on for today becomes moot. Virus cleanup? Spyware removal? Application install? It's literally drag and drop. OS reinstall or upgrade? No.
Click to expand...

When Apple becomes today's Microsoft (or Google becomes today's MS or whoever), they will be targeted.

6. The more technically adept generation in the workforce as potential customers will have less and less need for a technical "specialist" since they've been tweaking with computers their whole lives to get better performance in WOW or BioShock, etc.
Click to expand...

The strategy here is, keep learning! When the youth start careers, families and lives - they will no longer be keeping up with the latest technology. The won't have time or the desire to learn the latest OS deployment tools, or the latest scripting languages or how fix the latest threat.

The biggest challenge here is going to be selling them services. You won't be able to blind them with "geekspeak" - they will be knowledgeable and will keep you honest.

1. The younger, more technically adept generation coming into the workforce - less overhead and can undercut our prices
Click to expand...

It is true and it sucks... although, I find this really only affects my residential clients. My business clients want someone who is accountable.

EP
 
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1. The younger, more technically adept generation coming into the workforce - less overhead and can undercut our prices
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This is true of almost all trades/professions and even politics these days!
 
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