Another Licensing Question

[AlexanderCS]

Hi folks,

I've read through the sticky on Refurbishing and Licenses but due to the wording there's a couple of things I can't wrap my head around. I'd like to just present some scenarios (as Nige did a couple years back... yes, I did Search!) and hopefully receive straightforward answers. I don't want these to come up in real time and have no idea how to handle it.

Scenario #1:

I have a machine with a Windows 7 COA on it. There is no recovery disk or partition (let's assume the drive was completely wiped). I have a Windows 7 image (by following the instructions on a "We Got Served" e-book). Can I image the machine with Windows 7 from my external hard drive and then activate using the original 7 COA that's on it?

Scenario #2:

I have a used machine. It has an XP COA on it. I want to replace the hard drive with an SSD and put Windows 7 on it. They have no recovery disks or partition. Now it (refurb doc) says I need a "new" license. Are they referring to the Windows 7 Refurbish license... as in I purchase one of those, affix it next to the XP COA, install and activate, then sell with the disks that comes with the Refurb license? Or are they expecting that a brand new retail COA be purchased of 7? Because at that point, all I can get is OEM... which I believe would ALSO break the terms of an OEM license.

Scenario #3:

I have a machine with an XP COA and it HAS the disks or partition. Do I simply purchase a Refurb 7 license, install, activate and sell with disks?

Scenario #4:

I have a machine with an XP COA and it HAS the recovery partition but no disks. However, apparently I am able to upgrade the Hard Drive if I wish. So, I want to put an SSD in there. At that point however, it wouldn't have the recovery partition anymore. What happens in this scenario?


Thanks in advance for any help clearing this up.

 

[ccritchie]

Hi Alexander,

I've been refurbing machines for a couple of years. I'll try to give you concise answers that hopefully will clear things up.

Hi folks,

I've read through the sticky on Refurbishing and Licenses but due to the wording there's a couple of things I can't wrap my head around. I'd like to just present some scenarios (as Nige did a couple years back... yes, I did Search!) and hopefully receive straightforward answers. I don't want these to come up in real time and have no idea how to handle it.

Scenario #1:

I have a machine with a Windows 7 COA on it. There is no recovery disk or partition (let's assume the drive was completely wiped). I have a Windows 7 image (by following the instructions on a "We Got Served" e-book). Can I image the machine with Windows 7 from my external hard drive and then activate using the original 7 COA that's on it?

Yes, you can use the COA on it to re-install. Technically, Microsoft would advise you that you need to purchase the OEM re-installation media, but it should activate just fine using the product key on the COA. Be sure to use a Win7 image that matches the version on the COA (eg. Win7 Home Premium), and use an image from Digital River if you don't have a disk.

Scenario #2:

I have a used machine. It has an XP COA on it. I want to replace the hard drive with an SSD and put Windows 7 on it. They have no recovery disks or partition. Now it (refurb doc) says I need a "new" license. Are they referring to the Windows 7 Refurbish license... as in I purchase one of those, affix it next to the XP COA, install and activate, then sell with the disks that comes with the Refurb license? Or are they expecting that a brand new retail COA be purchased of 7? Because at that point, all I can get is OEM... which I believe would ALSO break the terms of an OEM license.

You can use a Win7 refurb license for this, as long as the COA sticker exists, as you will need to supply the XP COA product ID in order to get the Win7 license key.

Scenario #3:

I have a machine with an XP COA and it HAS the disks or partition. Do I simply purchase a Refurb 7 license, install, activate and sell with disks?

Yes, just as you would in scenario 2. In this case, it doesn't really matter whether it has the XP disks or partition, as you will wipe those out during the install & provide the Win7 Refurb COA & install disk to the customer.

Scenario #4:

I have a machine with an XP COA and it HAS the recovery partition but no disks. However, apparently I am able to upgrade the Hard Drive if I wish. So, I want to put an SSD in there. At that point however, it wouldn't have the recovery partition anymore. What happens in this scenario?

If you are unable to provide the disks or recovery partition, tehn technically you would have to purchase a retail license for it. However, you probably won't/can't purchase a license for XP, as it's no longer supported. So, in this case you would do the same as above & install Win7 refurb, slap on the Refurb COA sticker & activate with the reburb license key which you acquire through the refurb website.

In the end, it's really all about the COA sticker (XP or Vista) being present on the machine when you refurb it. If the box doesn't have a sticker, then you can't refurb it with a commercial Win7 license, You CAN, however, refurb a box without a COA sticker by using a Win7 Refurb citizenship license (mainly used for nonprofit organizations).


Thanks in advance for any help clearing this up.

 

[Kitten Kong]

If the box does not have a coa attached, you cannot use a refurb coa. As there is nothing to use the licence against, to generate a new licence. In this case you would need to purchase a new coa.

You cannot even use a commercial licence, as that also needs a old coa for the key to be generated.

Commercial licences are only to be used for charitable institutions, schools, and businesses.

Everything else ccritchie has mentioned is correct.

 

[JustInspired]

...Everything else ccritchie has mentioned is correct.

Pretty sure scenario one (original Windows 7 COA installed fresh with imagex applied image) does not qualify if the end user is not provided with a means to restore the system to factory settings with a disc or recovery partition. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting it?

 

[Markverhyden]

Pretty sure scenario one (original Windows 7 COA installed fresh with imagex applied image) does not qualify if the end user is not provided with a means to restore the system to factory settings with a disc or recovery partition. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting it?

If the machine is being repaired then he should be able to use the universal W7 image as long as it can be registered with the existing COA. If the machine is being resold then, technically, it needs to have a refurb license.

I've read a few OEM EULA's over the years and from what I remember a computer can be resold by the original owner with the OEM recovery disks as long as it is a "personal" sale. Someone engaging in the resale of OEM computers as a business, say from off lease, are supposed to buy the refurb license to install.

Over the years I have purchased 5 dell laptops off of eBay. The first three came with XP already installed. Was not a Dell image and did not have a new COA on the bottom. The last two had no OS so that was legit.

 

[AlexanderCS]

Excellent.

Thanks very much for your help in clearing that up, folks. I like it a heck of a lot better when I have confidence in what I'm going to be doing!

 

[johnrobert]

My rule of thumb as long as it activated naturally without using loader, patched then its OK for me.

 

[carrcomp]

My rule of thumb as long as it activated naturally without using loader, patched then its OK for me.

Then you're rule of thumb can get you into a lot of trouble one day. I won't go against licencing, so you should take some time to look into it. Professionalism and all that.

Hi Alexander,

I've been refurbing machines for a couple of years. I'll try to give you concise answers that hopefully will clear things up.

That last one about the citizenship licence ... it's not that it's "mainly used" for anything .. there is a strict set of organizations that qualify for the use of those licences. You can't just use them to slap a Windows install on a system without a COA.

As for scenario 1, I have a question.

Are you looking to sell it, or is this for repair?

If you are looking to sell it, contact the MFG and request replacement media. That'll solve your problem right there.

 

[Markverhyden]

If you are looking to sell it, contact the MFG and request replacement media.

The problem with that is some OEM's will not sell recovery media to anyone other than the registered owner.

 

[carrcomp]

HP and Dell have both been more than willing to sell them to me, so long as I was willing to provide them with the information.

Actually, HP has sent me 2 of them for free, but I don't think that's to be expected.

I'm sure there are others that have been dealing with these guys much more often than I, so perhaps I'm the odd man out.

Or Canadian branches are nicer

 

[gikstar]

If the box does not have a coa attached, you cannot use a refurb coa. As there is nothing to use the licence against, to generate a new licence. In this case you would need to purchase a new coa.

You cannot even use a commercial licence, as that also needs a old coa for the key to be generated.

Commercial licences are only to be used for charitable institutions, schools, and businesses.

Well I have to disagree with your two corrections, and I quote from the "Registered Refurbisher Program Guide":

Page 20: (Differences in the two Refurbish Licenses)
There are two types of product license available in the Registered Refurbisher Program:

Commercial licenses are available for you to supply to any type of customer but are only available in certain countries.

Citizenship licenses are available for you to supply only to Eligible Recipients. Citizenship licenses are available for a small fee for customers such as educational institutions, nonprofit charitable organizations and other approved recipients.
------
You must supply citizenship licenses only to Eligible Recipients. You are not allowed to supply citizenship licenses to any other type of customer.
Eligible Recipients:
There are three types of Eligible Recipient defined in the Program Agreement (for Citizenship licenses):
• Eligible Academic Users
• Eligible Charitable Organizations
• Specially Approved Recipients

-------Regarding the Question about what to do with a system without a pre-existing COA------

Page 28: Product Keys / Citizenship Licenses
In order to obtain a product key you will need the following information:
The ID of the Program COA.
The language of the software you have preinstalled.
The ID of the pre-existing COA that is already affixed to the PC prior to refurbishment or if the PC that is being refurbished does not have a pre-existing Window COA attached you can follow the steps in Obtaining Product Keys for Windows on page 31 to 35 of this guide. "Since December 2011 a pre-existing Windows COA is not required when preinstalling citizenship Windows licenses".
The recipient of the PC.
--------------
I hope this clears some things up for the original poster... we as "Registered Refurbishers" are REQUIRED to know this stuff inside and out and will be tested each year to be able to continue in the program.

 

[Kitten Kong]

The problem with that is some OEM's will not sell recovery media to anyone other than the registered owner.

I agree with this. Dell especially want me to jump through hoops in order to supply recovery media. They want the original owners details.

The machines could of been passed from pillar to post by the time they get to me, and I have no way of knowing who the original owner was.

Everyone else has been great, give them the serial #, pay a fee, receive media.

 

[joydivision]

If the machine is being repaired then he should be able to use the universal W7 image as long as it can be registered with the existing COA. If the machine is being resold then, technically, it needs to have a refurb license.

I've read a few OEM EULA's over the years and from what I remember a computer can be resold by the original owner with the OEM recovery disks as long as it is a "personal" sale. Someone engaging in the resale of OEM computers as a business, say from off lease, are supposed to buy the refurb license to install.

Over the years I have purchased 5 dell laptops off of eBay. The first three came with XP already installed. Was not a Dell image and did not have a new COA on the bottom. The last two had no OS so that was legit.

From when I studied the rules, you can sell a used computer commercially without a refurb licence as longs as it comes with the original installation media or a recovery partition and of course has a valid COA in what ever form that might be.

 

[trevm999]

Scenario #1:

I have a machine with a Windows 7 COA on it. There is no recovery disk or partition (let's assume the drive was completely wiped). I have a Windows 7 image (by following the instructions on a "We Got Served" e-book). Can I image the machine with Windows 7 from my external hard drive and then activate using the original 7 COA that's on it?

Yes, you can use the COA on it to re-install. Technically, Microsoft would advise you that you need to purchase the OEM re-installation media, but it should activate just fine using the product key on the COA. Be sure to use a Win7 image that matches the version on the COA (eg. Win7 Home Premium), and use an image from Digital River if you don't have a disk.

If you are refurbishing machines, you should use the provided installation media plus the toolkit to make your image.

If you are repairing the machine, most like the customer does not qualify for reimaging rights. Therefore you are supposed to use the original recovery media. It is common practice to not do this and use an OEM/retail disc or an image because it still activates fine. However, if you are a MRR, there is a chance you could be audited by Microsoft. As mentioned in another thread (by someone who knows someone this happened to), Microsoft will probably tell you to stop doing this because it violates the license terms.