Adding BGA Rework Station to the business...

[stevieb]

This really isn't a question about which machine to buy, I'm really set on getting the IR6000 machine to be able to reball xbox360, ps3, cell phones, and motherboards.

I'd like to know what all equipment-wise (besides the actual station) will I need to get in order to add this to my current computer business?

I'm looking into getting the stencils and the stencil holder, and balls. Is that all I will need?

Is there anything else I should be aware of before I take this leap?

Thanks.

 

[Mercenary Roadie]

Do you have any experience doing BGA rework?

Doing BGA rework can be tricky as you can't verify you have a correct reflow visually. Most places have a special built x-ray machine to verify that everything properly reflowed. I was trained to US military and Aircraft specifications and I stayed away from BGA work.

 

[stevieb]

I found many profiles for this unit online. I understand that one's profile must be tweaked due to different room temps/humidity, but that with practice it could be perfected.
I've gotten very good with soldering over the years and thought I might give this a try as an added service to my normal repair work.

 

[Kitten Kong]

Would it not be cheaper and or better to advertise the service, and to sub this work out, rather than the expense, time effort and possible failures?

That way you know it would be done correctly (not saying you wouldnt do a good job). Just the sub's usually have all the right equipment for testing it afterwards.

You would still earn some money off of it.

 

[Larry Sabo]

Here's what I have, although I hardly use it all: Scotle HR6000 station, 90*90mm stencils, Honton 90mm jig, Aoyue vacuum pick-up station, temp meter and Omega TCs, Kingbo flux, JBC 60W iron with spade cartridge, IPA and Acetone, Q-tips and wipes, fan to cool MB, lead-free solder balls of various sizes, W.E.P. hot air station, USB and optical microscope, ultrasonic cleaner, dedicated laptop to monitor temp profile, and stainless dental picks. I also have most of the parts for a video camera for ultra-close-ups of the balls melting but just haven't finished the project. Not all of this is dedicated to reballing nor absolutely required. If I've forgotten anything, I'll add it when I think of it.

 

[jbartlett323]

So I gotta ask: Since PS3's and XBox 360 are last generation, and therefore getting phased out (albeit slowly), and I don't know of too many recent mobo's that require reballing on a regular basis, are you sure the market is worth it today? I mean, its totally a cool way to diversify, but sounds like a lot of outlay for a very small market... Phones might increase the market size some, but again I haven't often heard of a need to reflow/reball a phone. Wouldn't be the first time I'm wrong, so this is more of a curiosity question of "How much work do you really thing you will get from this?"

As for what else you need, as said above, an xray is the only way I am aware of to be sure all your balls are set. So plan on getting one of those too. And lots and lots of Kapton (polymide) tape. Like buy stock in it...

 

[stevieb]

After more research, I'm concerned about venting. Seems like the flux gives off a harmful fume? Is that all the flux used does this? Will be fine in my Florida room, but bedroom door is connected.

As far as subbing work out, I want to become the guy that gets the sub work! I see this work mainly from eBay biz. Maybe a few locals from do it yourselfers.

I've created my repair as a side job for many years, kinda my hobby. Getting a little bored with same old stuff

 

[coffee]

After more research, I'm concerned about venting. Seems like the flux gives off a harmful fume? Is that all the flux used does this? Will be fine in my Florida room, but bedroom door is connected.

As far as subbing work out, I want to become the guy that gets the sub work! I see this work mainly from eBay biz. Maybe a few locals from do it yourselfers.

I've created my repair as a side job for many years, kinda my hobby. Getting a little bored with same old stuff

I understand your thinking. I will also get involved with things just because I develop an interest in them and tend to not worry about the profit margin as much.

However, To properly outfit yourself its going to be a lot of money and I think the days of the bad laptop video chip sets are getting behind us. I would not expect to break even on this project unless you find a steady stream of repair work somewhere.

Not to say it can not be done though

Best of luck and why not update this thread and let us all know how it all works out.

 

[Larry Sabo]

After more research, I'm concerned about venting.

I forgot to mention that. The best solution is to vent the fumes to the outside--they are very toxic! However, I made a fumes filter from a used Bionaire HEPA air purifier, to which I fitted a flexible 4" hose like those used for laundry driers. Inside the air purifier, I stuck several layers of carbon filter material cut from a Honeywell universal filter belt, as well as the HEPA filter. Works really well.

 

[stevieb]

I forgot to mention that. The best solution is to vent the fumes to the outside--they are very toxic! However, I made a fumes filter from a used Bionaire HEPA air purifier, to which I fitted a flexible 4" hose like those used for laundry driers. Inside the air purifier, I stuck several layers of carbon filter material cut from a Honeywell universal filter belt, as well as the HEPA filter. Works really well.

Where/how did you position the filter intake on the rework station? If you have any pics, I'd love to see it!

 

[Larry Sabo]

I sit the unit beside the station and position the hose, which is about 2 feet long, so the opening is just beside the rear of the BGA. I'll post a pic tomorrow.

 

[Larry Sabo]

Here's an overview pic showing it as used and here's a closer view. Let me know if you would like more info. I attached a handle to it so I could conveniently carry it to my bench when I work on reballing the chip.

 

[Krynn72]

If you havent, you should watch some of Louis Rossmann's videos on youtube. He's got a lot of advice and opinions on this sort of stuff. Here's one to get you started.

 

[Larry Sabo]

Thanks for that. Excellent advice from Louis.

 

[NYJimbo]

If you havent, you should watch some of Louis Rossmann's videos on youtube.

I find him to be unnecessarily vulgar and repetitive. This video for example he keep cursing all the time for no reason and his repeat references on acquiring chips takes up half the video. I saw two other videos from him which were pretty much the same. He has good info but he is a schmuck and that's a turn off when watching some lengthy video to get information.

 

[Krynn72]

Yeah, both of those are valid observations on his content. I think the cursing doesn't bother me much, I grew up with people talking like that. I honestly don't even notice.

I do notice the repetitive aspect a lot though, and it does get annoying. While it does help to drive the point he's making home, after a couple times I find myself skipping ahead in the video 1-2 minutes at a time to skip past a repeat rant.

The quality and subject of his content more than make up for it though, In my opinion.

 

[Larry Sabo]

Agree, the language is offensive and unprofessional, but I just look for the pearls of wisdom in videos like that. He could have boiled it all down to a one minute video, saying it's too late to get into the BGA reballing/replacement game, plus there are no sources of quality replacement chips (that he's willing to share).

I just wished he'd share his sources of reliable chips. I've asked in other forums but never have had a reliable answer.

 

[NYJimbo]

Agreed on it being too late. When the HP DV series were coming in the door every other day, that was the time to get into reball, but everyone was doing "hair dryer reflows" and promising 30 days and with so many of those out there, buying a $5,000 BGA reball kit wasn't worth it. Now what we see is failures that look like they MIGHT be BGA related but you cant be sure and every chip requires a different stencil, different size balls, different profiles, etc. If someone handed me one of those $10,000 BGA machines I would get into the game, but I'm not going to do it with some cheap Chinese machine that looks really cool but is just a hot air gun with a temp probe and a timer. I was watching a few people on youtube doing reballs. All of them doing filthy, sloppy work and either using hand held heaters or some $600 machine and just guessing how long to flow the chips. Sure they work for now, but after a few weeks most of them fail again.