Acer TC885 - Not booting most of the time, but eventually will

[britechguy]

I got a call from a client's son, a potential new client, who says he has an Acer TC885 that is almost precisely 3 years old (delivered 12/14/2018).

He says that it's now "doing this again" that when he tries to boot it up many times it just won't boot, but eventually it does. Now, mind you, that would normally scream to me that a system drive is going and failure is likely imminent. But something else he shared makes me wonder if it might not be.

He said that the machine has done this on two other occasions, the first time when it was 3 months old, and that he had found step-by-step instructions online to fix the issue that worked, and have worked both times previously when he needed to do the fix, but he's moved since he last used them and cannot find them. I'm not seeing anything obvious with a quick web search.

I know that certain makes and models can have very specific quirks and am completely unfamiliar with the Acer TC885 and any quirks it might be known to have. If anyone happens to recognize the "non boot" behavior in this model that has some basis other than a failing drive, could you please share?

I don't know why anyone would have kept a machine that exhibited non-boot behavior at 3 months old, but I guess because whatever he did fixed the issue for a very long while before the next occurrence, he did. But I have no idea of what that fix might have been, and I figure someone here just might.

From what he describes is happening it doesn't appear to be a power supply issue, at least not to me.

 

[Diggs]

Won't boot is pretty vague. Does it POST? Does it BSOD? I suppose this isn't the issue as you're looking for his "wonder" fix but details will be needed to pursue the problem.

 

[britechguy]

It POSTs. It does not BSOD, but it is now often taking anywhere from 20 minutes or so to a couple of hours before miraculously completing boot up.

It's vague for me, too. But sometimes there are some very specific quirks that ring bells in the heads of those who've dealt with them previously and that's the reason I asked.

The client called me yesterday saying the thing had suddenly completed booting about two hours after turning it on. It still sounds like a failing drive to me, but who knows. If events progress, I'll let the cohort know how.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Boot device on that unit is a 128gb SSD. It could very well be a bad psu or a bad motherboard that isn’t running at proper clock speeds. Those acer units are junk…

 

[Diggs]

Boot to Linux. Still the delay?

 

[britechguy]

If the client actually calls me out for an on-site service call, I'll have more information. But he has not done so as of yet, as since the computer is up at the moment and will stay powered up the immediate crisis has passed.

I did tell him to download SeaTools for Windows and check his system drive.

 

[fincoder]

A quick google of Acer TC885 shows some models with SSD+HDD. Sometimes a failing secondary HDD can delay startup, or it could be the SSD playing up.

Regarding the reports of the "same" problem happening a while ago, just keep in mind that end users often say it was the same problem just because they couldn't boot but it's likely to be a different issue happening now. I wouldn't worry about their previous solution to the "same" problem, just treat it as a new issue.

Last week I worked on a 2.5yo laptop that powered on but the screen remained blank. Looked like it was failing POST to me and I warned the customer of possible motherboard failure. But to my surprise I could access the BIOS! Turns out it was a faulty HDD. I've noticed lately that recent model OEM-built computers with HDD are commonly getting drive failures in a couple of years of life.

 

[Rigo]

Boot device on that unit is a 128gb SSD. It could very well be a bad psu or a bad motherboard that isn’t running at proper clock speeds. Those acer units are junk…

What happened 3 years might be pretty irrelevant today even if the symptoms are similar.
128GB over 3 years, this things would be running red short of space. He would have to have been ruthless to manage that boot drive and keep it in the safe zone free space requirement.
The secondary drive dying is additionally valid as well.

 

[MudRock]

So, based on details, here is what I would check:

1. Cursory test of PSU
2. Check thermal paste to see if right dried out
3. Check SSD health - Older 128GB, if within 10-20G of full, performance could go right to crap, and can be a lot of writes to one area too, causing more wear issues. Make backup of drive, then do some drive speed tests. If SSD seems to be in good health and good speeds, might be time to put image back in place. SSD technologies like TRIM and wear levelling didn't seem to be 100% effective on old drives.
4. Boot from external media - Any better boot times? (Boot to some WinPE too)
5. Look for signs of overclocking/tinkering - Reset to defaults and re-enable XMP/AMP if was used originally (Acer, unlikely)
6. If you can get to boot, check for signs of OS tinkering, improper shutdowns, system interrupts and Event Viewer for hints
7. Update drivers, or even try a driver rollback - I find once Acer gets a buggered driver, you will have issues forever w/o a rollback
8. Memtest86 it for a few passes/overnight
9. Test motherboard - I know this is "impossible" to test properly, and in field not going to happen
10. Nuke & Pave and see if better

Most common causes of this problem in my experiences, in order of how often it is the reason:

1. PSU
2. OS buggered (Nuke & Pave or Dig & Pray)
3. Dried out thermal paste
4. SSD (Clone and restore, or clone to new drive)
5. Motherboard
6. Memory (I put this here, even though it is around 1 in 100-ish chance unless garbage memory... Possible with most OEMs)

(I give both lists based on ease of testing for first list, and commonality of failure on second list)

14 years, I have not seen 1 dead CPU that hasn't been end user- or another store-caused issue; Memory I'm LUCKY to see a dead DIMM once or twice a year, and 14 years, 2 which have been in warranty (MOST of which are within prebuilt by large OEMs and still outside warranty)

 

[britechguy]

@MudRock

Thank you very much for this comprehensive list and all the background it contains. I will file it for ongoing use.

I find it interesting how there seem to be camps, for lack of a better term, that have repeatedly experienced thermal paste issues and those that have not (and I'm in the latter). The only time I've ever had to replace thermal paste is if I've removed the heat sink to get to something else and am reinstalling it later.

For the moment the client has gone silent, but I have no doubt he'll be back sooner or later.

 

[MudRock]

@MudRock

Thank you very much for this comprehensive list and all the background it contains. I will file it for ongoing use.

I find it interesting how there seem to be camps, for lack of a better term, that have repeatedly experienced thermal paste issues and those that have not (and I'm in the latter). The only time I've ever had to replace thermal paste is if I've removed the heat sink to get to something else and am reinstalling it later.

For the moment the client has gone silent, but I have no doubt he'll be back sooner or later.

I have always used good thermal paste, so my builds and repairs, tend to be less of an issue.

Where I see thermal paste issues most frequently, are on prebuilts (including laptops), underpowered CPUs for needs, and gaming systems. If you live in a very budget-minded area or deal with penny-pinchers, you're going to see thermal paste issues more frequently. Cheaper processors tend to generate more heat for longer to complete the same tasks. 35W Pentium processor running maxxed out for 20m, vs 95W i5 processor running maxxed for 2-3m, and you can see where the issue would be. Hotter heat on the i5, but much shorter time, less time to build thermal mass. You will actually see it less often in good business units.

Probably booted up and leaving it on now.

Another super-outlier problem that I've had twice now, is bad power from the outlet. I had one where computer worked here, didn't work at customer's home.

Finally, her electrician husband stuck a multimeter into outlets. I guess her house was only getting 90V... Still no idea why they hadn't had more issues. Edit: ActivePFC wouldn't let the computer try to power on.

 

[britechguy]

This client just gets "stranger and stranger," though he's definitely a client now, and I did do a service call.

He decided to buy a new tower PC, another Acer, but . . .

1. He's using the machine mentioned when I started this topic with an ancient square-format Dell monitor with a VGA connection.

2. He has a Dell 27-inch monitor he bought in 2019, but when I opened the box (it had been open before) the HDMI cable and power supply and cord were all MIA.

3. The new tower has no VGA output (no surprise there), so there was no way I could set it up as I can't do that without a functioning monitor.

4. Tried Dell support through online chat to enter a replacement, the rep tells me "it has no power supply" while the quick setup instructions clearly show one and the power port on the bottom is precisely like one finds on a PC. It has to have a power supply.

5. Tried searching Dell support AND parts using the service tag, no dice on a replacement power supply.

6. Located a third-party power supply that claims compatibility with this Dell monitor, and even makes note about the need for "Dell's special sauce" (my term) so that it thinks it's a Dell power supply. Ordered.

So, we're an hour and 15 minutes in to have a machine on which I connected a mouse, keyboard, HDMI cable (found one), and power cord. Can't continue until I have a functioning monitor, so that will be service call number two.

This really is the first time I've ever arrived at someone's house for a new system setup where "all of the pieces" were not available, and what wasn't available was because the owner lost them.

I'm sure I'll be headed over there again very shortly after Christmas once the power supply arrives!

 

[nlinecomputers]

That power supply isn’t under his desk? I can see him setting it up for the old pc and finding that the new monitor doesn’t support vga. So he packs it up and forgets to get the power pack.

 

[britechguy]

That power supply isn’t under his desk?

Nope. And, believe me, I looked. I also looked a number of other spots and thought I might find it when I found the HDMI cable that almost certainly was the one that came with the monitor, but no dice!

And in a house as cluttered as this one was, we were already in needle in a haystack territory!

 

[Diggs]

And in a house as cluttered as this one was, we were already in needle in a haystack territory!

...not to diverge too much from the original discussion but thank goodness I've only had to make one service call to a "hoader" house. Pathways cut through the junk to get from the front door to the room with the computer yet walking on stuff the whole way...... I don't mean to shame but ewwww....

 

[britechguy]

Well, this was not "hoarder level" but it was plenty cluttered enough to make "visual scan and locate" more than a bit of a challenge. The house was still very easy to navigate and the floors were not piled with junk with only narrow paths through.

My partner is, unfortunately, if not a hoarder as close to one as you can get without being there, so I'm accustomed to the inability to use visual scanning to find things on the fly. However, I have an almost encyclopedic knowledge of "where things are" that have remained in the same place for any period of time, even if they get covered up. The worst disaster in terms of locating things at home is if he decides to "tidy up" and moves things around or packs them in boxes. Then there is no hope of knowing where something is!

 

[Nathan Igo]

Im sorry in advance if this sounds like an attack but I am just trying to justify this service call in my head versus the parts I wasted money on and carry.
2. Monitor had missing power supply. Unless its a 4k 144hz+ monitor most universal laptop power supplies work, tips included
3. Tower has wrong video outputs. I feel like I have so many adapters I could take a PS2 to DP if that actually worked.

Even for external monitor, I usually carry my USB-C monitor for quick diagnostics.

Again, this is not a dig at you I am really just trying to get a feel of what people actually carry around and decrease my spending for the next year.

 

[britechguy]

what people actually carry around

In my case, very little. I have some ethernet cables, I think an HDMI cable, my screw kit and my tools.

When I'm called to set up a new machine I have every reason to expect that all associated parts needed for doing so will be there. Historically, that's precisely what's happened.

I'm not responsible for any client not having what they need prior to a service call unless they ask me about what they need or should order before one.

And you'd be wrong about the power supply that came with (and was reordered for) that monitor.

I will never be carrying a huge assortment of adapters, either. There are times of transition where I might have a few, but at this point HDMI has become the de facto standard for new equipment. If someone's getting a new tower (or laptop) and a new monitor I have no reason to believe that anything other than HDMI will be the cable requirement.

 

[Blues]

The hoarder comment reminded me I was cleaning out/reorganizing some stuff yesterday and found one of our son's Christmas presents still in an unopened USPS box we had forgotten about and it had been stored/hidden away from the rest of his gifts. I have some storage space that is a complete disaster and I need to clean it up but usually have too many tasks to get around to this mountain that has piled up over the year. Most of it is stuff we need to put in a yard sale but haven't done one for a few reasons and I keep trying to offer pieces online which I hope to do soon.

Back on track did this guy end up using said power brick on the laptop or some other device?

 

[britechguy]

@Blues

No. I suspect it will turn up either before the replacement arrives or very shortly afterward. But it could not be located during my visit.

He still had the new monitor in its box, and why the power supply and HDMI cable did not go right back in that box with it I shall never know!